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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Replacement Windows

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Steve@Advance

01-13-2018 20:30:47




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Looking to replace some windows in the house.

This is a brick veneer construction with the original single pane, single hung, 1980's aluminum windows. I live in north Texas, winter rarely gets into the teens, summer is pleasant, maybe 110 at the most.

I got a quote on some vinyl R4, Lo E 366 glass.

The place I got the quote recommended the vinyl, but I've heard good and bad about it. I want the bronze color, and hear it will fade. Also they are breakable from hail.

I had the small bath window replaced a couple years ago. Different company, but they recommended aluminum. I don't remember the specs, but it was supposed to be an energy efficient, top of the line window.

It is awful! Like standing in front of a freezer when the north wind hits it! I can't pinpoint a leak, just delivers a cold draft.

Is that normal for aluminum or is there something wrong? I can't see anything wrong, it's sealed around the frame, feels good opening and closing.

Also, the quote on the vinyl, he wants $600 labor to replace 2 windows. This sounds high to me.

I'm getting more quotes, probably DIY.

But what do y'all recommend, vinyl or aluminum?

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gordosd

01-17-2018 20:07:06




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
I just paid 1100 for as new 50x50 single hung and a 10x50 the same, Two kids about 5 hours to the "$500 labor" I gavejem each $20 tip because they were here the right day, right time never talked on phones did a nice cleanup and left me a new $120 insulated Car hart jacket. LOL He came flying back for it when I called him.



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gregww

01-16-2018 11:08:41




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
I just watched a video on Youtube of someone replacing a window from the outside (mostly). Instead of installing a "replacement" window, he installed a "new construction" window, with nail flange and all. He took off all the inside trim, even the casing, and the outside trim, casing, window sill and all. He cut off the lap siding with a sawzall. If your contractor is wanting to do all this to replace your windows, it's no wonder he is charging so much. In my opinion, they are doing all this extra, unnecessary work, just to ramp up the bill.

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Married2Allis

01-16-2018 07:30:35




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
The window contractors (vultures) around here wanted $1000 labor for 2 windows. After bugging me with phone calls he came out to my house to give me the estimate and seemed pi$$ed when I told him **NO**.



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gregww

01-16-2018 04:42:59




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
If they did them from the outside, maybe I am missing something.



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gregww

01-15-2018 07:42:34




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
I have installed 100's of vinyl replacement windows. Working for a contractor, and for myself as a contractor. 56 windows in one very large old farm house. $600 to replace 2 windows seems a bit high, for this part of the country anyway. (Illinois) Of course there are always exceptions. Replacing a casement, (crank out) window can be a challenge to say the least. Although it can be done. It's not as simple as popping out the old sashes, and popping in the replacement.. I have also replaced windows that others have replaced previously. I have seen cases where people have put in vinyl replacement windows from the outside! I suppose there may be cases where this is necessary, but I have never run across one.

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Goose

01-15-2018 15:14:50




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to gregww, 01-15-2018 07:42:34  
Several years ago, we had Window World replace all of the windows in our house with vinyl. They did all of them from the outside. Am I missing something?

BTW, we were so impressed with their windows, we had them replace the siding on the house last fall.



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Mike M

01-16-2018 04:54:54




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Goose, 01-15-2018 15:14:50  
Mom had window world install her windows. Ended up they did not seal them to the house under the siding and it leaked water inside and was rotting the wood behind them. They stand on their windows but not behind the installation ! She was stuck with that crappy job. Ended up paying another window company a lot of money to straighten out the worst ones.



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Mike M

01-15-2018 07:24:25




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
I don't know what to use. But I would NOT use Symington Windows !

Our house has vinyl ones, frames seem fine but between the double panes it looks like an aquarium as they fill up with water and also rust in side of there.



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ztr mowers

01-15-2018 07:22:02




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
still working on my project installed 27 windows plus storm windows on outside of all those also. all are vinyly units. i am firm believer in stom womdows also thou. my heat gun shows 9 to 10 degrees diff between same window with storm and without. now onto floors and wall



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schrade

01-14-2018 17:08:31




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
Our house had aluminum windows put in right before we bought it. Don't care for them. What ever you pick, make sure the old frames are in good shape. When our windows were replaced the frames were so bad they put pockets of caulking in, some larger then my fist. Don,t know who installed them, but would never refer them to anyone.



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Hobo,NC

01-14-2018 15:39:34




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
Let us know what you find I plan to replace mine this spring. House built in 1963 single pain aluminum windows with storm windows on all they are just not cutting it....

First I have a large crack in the brick right below a window that I need to fix. I will post a pix when I get time to add a new post...



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Guido

01-14-2018 15:05:16




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
Hello Steve@advance,

You maybe able to find the leak with a candle. Move a lit one s l o w l y all the way around the perimeter and watch the flame for flickering,

Guido.



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ken combs

01-14-2018 13:20:07




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
Aluminum clad wood. Metal in several choice of colors outside, wood that can be stained or painted inside. Casement, not double hung, single hung or sliders. Pella, anderson or equivalent. Probably the most expensive choice, but if you can get past that you will be pleased with the results

I have these, Pella brand, in my home which was built in '67 and windows replaced in '95 or so. Huge difference in indoor comfort compared to the aluminum originals.

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Steve@Advance

01-14-2018 12:48:51




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
Thanks everyone!

This gives me some better ideas what to look for, questions to ask.

Got a couple more sources to check, will know more later.

Thanks!



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dr sportster

01-14-2018 10:32:26




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
The thermal conductivity of aluminum is approx. eight times greater than steel. I would think the thermal conductivity of vinyl to be much less than either. One of those reciprocating saws comes in real handy.



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bjb from Ne in Tx

01-14-2018 10:16:38




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
I am slowly replacing all of my windows in my Houston home with Pella Impervia (fiberglass product). So far I have been happy with the ones I have done. I also made sure the frames are insulated for better performance in the summer and the winter. I can tell the difference between the rooms that have the old aluminum double pane windows and the new windows (it also helps that i am re insulating the walls and ceiling too).

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kcm.MN

01-14-2018 09:20:00




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
While the installation charges sound a little high to "ME", I'm also a bit behind the times. But what installers are having to do is rate their labor high enough to cover the additional costs of customers who are never satisfied, the inevitable poorly-made product that will come about now and then, and not to mention, every time I've dug into a house in the past, there's no telling what you're gonna find. Basically, if it was level, plumb and square, then someone obviously made a mistake! *lol*

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Retired Farmer

01-14-2018 07:51:48




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
I got some vinyl windows from Home Depot special made to fit the openings in a mobile home about ten years ago. Been satisfied with them so far. Don't remember what they cost.



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Harold Melius

01-14-2018 07:31:00




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
I am in the process of flipping a house for resale. I had 9 vinyl, 6 pane, double hung, insulated windows put in for just under $2000.00. That was removing the old aluminum ones and installing the new ones. They are totally vinyl and I examined a cut away of the window before buying them. They were very well made and operate well. I got them from a company called "Window World". I don't know if they are a local chain or if they are all over the US.

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Leroy

01-14-2018 07:09:42




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
I have some all vinal windows and to me they are not much of a window But were cheap lumber yard type of window in small sizes. I prefer the aluminm or possibly vinal clad wood units. And I have some all wood double glass as well as the old single pane windows. I have storm windows on everything I can put them on.



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JDEM

01-14-2018 05:56:22




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
Worst-case it ought to take 4 hours to install one custom-made replacement window that fits into the old window frame. This guy is charging $300 for 4 or less hours of work?



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JDEM

01-14-2018 05:58:21




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to JDEM, 01-14-2018 05:56:22  
By the way, shows times have changed. I worked for a window-replacement company in the mid 70s. I got paid $20 per window installed. Did 4-8 windows a day.



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showcrop

01-14-2018 04:34:58




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
I put eight vinyl replacement windows in myself probably ten years ago. These are 100% vinyl, no wood, made by Harvey who is dominant here in the northeast. They sit in the old frame. They are just as good as the day that I put them in and every year I put window AC units in two of them with no problems. The insulation value is excellent, I don't feel any great amount of cold being conducted in. In order to get the best installation price you need to talk to the contractor. Put yourself in his shoes. He has to try to make a buck. If he can bring in all of his tools and get two days work, for just one set-up, you could probably get the equivalent of a free window installation out of it.

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MarkB_MI

01-14-2018 03:42:29




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
A drafty window sounds more like a poor installation than a defective window. Did the installers guarantee their work?

Between our home and various rental properties, we have several dozen vinyl replacement windows, some of them over twenty years old. Most are from a very large regional company that builds the windows and contracts out the installation. None of these windows has had any problems I would ascribe to their being vinyl, although we've had various issues fixed under their lifetime warranty.

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Stephen Newell

01-14-2018 03:27:41




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
I don't care for vinyl windows. They are basically wooden windows covered with vinyl and when the vinyl cracks and it will the wood quickly rots. If they would use pressure treated wood it would be better but they don't.

Without being there it's difficult what might be involved in the installation so it would be hard to say if $600.00 is too much. I think I would be inclined to determine where the draft is coming from and try to solve the problem. You might rent a thermal camera to see where the air is coming from. If it's not where the window functions a can of Great Stuff expansion foam or caulk might solve the problem. If it's not the seals in the window itself chances are the problem is due to a bad installation. You also run the risk the $600.00 guy will also do a bad install.

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marloweg

01-14-2018 05:45:41




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Stephen Newell, 01-14-2018 03:27:41  
you don't have vinyl windows you have vinyl clad big difference



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whereswaldo

01-15-2018 07:42:32




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to marloweg, 01-14-2018 05:45:41  
You are correct; there are NO 'solid Vinyl' windows, yet people are still CONvinced what they have, are. People don't want to hear that their vinyl clad windows are clad on the worst of the sugar pine woods, either.



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Stephen Newell

01-14-2018 18:10:34




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to marloweg, 01-14-2018 05:45:41  
Yes they have several different ways of making them however you can't escape the fact that it is plastic sitting out in the sun. With the vinyl clad at least when it starts failing there is wood behind it to have something holding it together so it can be repaired. Most of the vinyl windows are not solid vinyl they are hollow plastic tubes. When one of those starts crumbling you are just going to have another window. Some of the fasteners may fail on aluminum windows but they won't just sit there and crumble.

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wgm

01-14-2018 03:41:41




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Stephen Newell, 01-14-2018 03:27:41  
I guess it depends on window quality. I have Andersen vinyl windows installed in my house when I built in 1977. Look as good today as when they were installed. You get what you pay for.



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Stephen Newell

01-14-2018 05:06:31




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to wgm, 01-14-2018 03:41:41  
Maybe it's the Texas sun. I do home repairs and I frequently have to repair the dry cracked vinyl on windows trying to extend the life of them. Some of them you can peal the vinyl off and it will crumble in you hands like egg shells and the windows are said to be less than 10 years old.



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wgm

01-15-2018 02:43:41




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Stephen Newell, 01-14-2018 05:06:31  
Wow, could be the Texas sun. I live In Indiana and said previously, never had a vinyl wondow issue. I do have a Pella fiberglass door installed in 2004 with a southern exposure that has failed. Followed Pella's maintenance instructions and the fiberglass still failed.



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Billy NY

01-13-2018 21:38:52




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
Any quality aluminum window would be "Thermally Broken". Look at the frame member in section,(extrusion) and you will see the thermal brake.



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JD Seller

01-13-2018 20:58:36




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
What I use when replacing windows is a vinyl clade fiberglass/wood window. They have a fiberglass frame with wood on the inside and vinyl on the outside. A pure vinyl window will sag over time. There needs to be a more stable frame under the vinyl. I have not installed any in the last 3-4 years so there will be "new" brands out there but stay away form the total vinyl windows. Have them get you a sample. The window should "feel" solid when you tug it up or down and push in and out on it.

Also check how they tilt in and out for cleaning. You want brands with a latche on the tilt. The ones you just "pull" on to tilt depend on "flex' in the window construction to hold/seal the window. My current house has one in the kitchen that is that way. It will not stay in any position other then locked up or full down.

Aluminum windows are terrible. The aluminum frame conducts the heat and cold right into the house. Aluminum is one of the best thermal conductors. That is why it is used in radiators and heat exchangers.

As for the labor to install windows. If he does the job correctly then the $250-300 per window in a brick house is about correct. This is totally removing the old window. installing the new window with insulation around it. Installing the flashing around it. An then totally sealing it with a good quality silicone caulk. So if your buying the windows only and he is supplying the labor an other materials then $300 is not terribly high.

Request some references and go look at some he put in a brick house. A bad job on a brick house can be costly to repair/replace.

P.S. The brand I used the most and like is "Integrity" I see they are a Marvin product and still available. They are a mid range cost/quality window. The last ones I put in ran around $300-400 a window depending on the size.

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woodbutcher

01-14-2018 02:30:30




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to JD Seller, 01-13-2018 20:58:36  
I wish I could have read this thread before I bought my replacement windows. The installation has been a nightmare for me, and what you say about a bad job on a brick house is exactly right.
Butch



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kcm.MN

01-13-2018 20:52:57




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
Had aluminum windows in SE Texas with zero problems, but we didn't get cold every year like you do. Have had vinyl up here. Is ok at best. Overall, I'm happiest with wood -- providing you can keep the woodpeckers and other pests away!

Maybe look into vinyl-coated wood? Problem with that is, any moisture that gets under the vinyl often stays there and rots the wood.

Another thing is, if you ever need to put a window A/C in, you won't like many of the all-vinyl units.

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Patsdeere

01-13-2018 20:43:15




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 Re: Replacement Windows in reply to Steve@Advance, 01-13-2018 20:30:47  
I have aluminum. It seems to suck the cold from outside and shoot it inside. Only experience I have had is with a door frame on a new door that was made of aluminum. It is miserable.



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