Belsaw chainsaw sharpener

Neighbor gives me an old chainsaw sharpener. Finally got around to using the chains I sharpened
with the belsaw sharpener. I was not impressed with the way they cut. Using the dremel tool with a
diamond burr cuts so much better.

I talked to a couple of men who cut trees for a living. They like the old file. As for me, I never
was good using a file. I'm staying with the dremel tool.

I could never get a file to cut properly, like chain is too hard to cut with file. Dremmel tool does well for me.

Thats a good sharpener. What it excells at is getting all the rakers the same height and returning all the teeth to the same angle. A file is easier and faster for touch up.

(quoted from post at 21:39:49 02/19/16) Neighbor gives me an old chainsaw sharpener. Finally got around to using the chains I sharpened
with the belsaw sharpener. I was not impressed with the way they cut. Using the dremel tool with a
diamond burr cuts so much better.

I talked to a couple of men who cut trees for a living. They like the old file. As for me, I never
was good using a file. I'm staying with the dremel tool.

Click to expand...

I have one and had the same problem until I got instruction on how to set/adjust for sharpening.
Personally--I have never saw a human being that can hand sharpen better, or same as a machine.
I certainly can't.

I plan to use belsaw to get the angles right, finish off with dremel.

I have never had a chain cut good that was done on a machine. I took them back and they said they redid them but no better when I got them home. The ones I had done by machine I had to do them over by hand. I take the rakers down and cut a little different angle. I want a chain that throws chips no dust and doesn't take forever to cut through logs.

I've been an arborist, fancy name for a tree man, for over 34 years. A proper size hand file is the way to go. As well as a flat raker file and raker gauge. Know what chain you have. It's listed on the drive link down in the bar. Look it up and see all the angles needed to file it correctly. There are 2. Not all chains cut best filing with the file level to the ground. Some need a 5 degree angle from flat. Sharpen the teeth first then check the rakers. They do not need touched every single sharpening. If a casual cutter use a round edge cutter tooth, not the square edge chisel tooth. Easier to sharpen and better for cutting dirty wood. Things to remember. Find the worse tooth on either side. Sharpen this tooth first. Count the strokes. Shapen each tooth the same amount of strokes. Even if it is not as dull. This keeps every tooth the same height. Next is the angle keep them all the same. Some chains have a mark on the top as a guide. If you have a choice purchase this type of chain. Next is a lot of people let the file go down into the cutter. You must maintain slight up pressure when sharpening. The top of the tooth does the cutting. If your saw cuts crooked here's a few tips. The side it cuts to is the sharpest. If it cuts to the right the right teeth are either taller, which would also be longer as teeth are tapered or the angle is greater. If the saw cuts good at first only about a bar depth then the bar has a lip and is wider than the chain and can't cut.
Now as to the machine sharpener. I do use one on a few occasions. Totally destroyed new chains with a lot of life left. The machine needs the depth set, hardest to set. Angle set, easiest as it has the angle on the machine. The grind wheel needs dressed to maintain the proper radius. Also the right size grind wheel. If the chain is destroyed by running it into the ground or hitting metal do not hog off all of the tooth in one grind. It will overheat and remove the chrome. Go slow remove some tooth, go around the chain reset grind some more. It could take 3 times of doing this per side.
Moral of my story learn to do it by hand, John.

d beatty,
I'm glad it was a gift from a neighbor. I would be upset paying for one that does such a crapy job.

I put on a chain that I sharpened with diamond burr on dremel and it made nice chips. The machine chain acted like it was dull. geo

George Get a manual and learn the correct way to set that sharpener and you will have good sharp chains. I am amazed that guys say they can get chains as sharp/level/same as a machine that can easily hold all that to thousandths. You need to set your cross angle and the sharpening angle set correctly to get a good sharp chain.

Believe it or not. I have a cheap imported sharpener and a Expensive Oregon sharpener. The cheap sharpener will do as good of job as the better Oregon one. The difference is the time and skill it takes to do it. With the Oregon sharpener once it is set anyone can get good results IF they do not "HOG" the teeth too fast. The little imported one will get good results but you have to "tweak " it as you use it. The frame on it has some back lash. You can "lean" the stone into the cutter to "shape" the edge better.

If your chains do not cut right after they are run on a machine then it is more than likely the OPERATOR not the machine that is the problem.

(quoted from post at 20:06:44 02/19/16) George Get a manual and learn the correct way to set that sharpener and you will have good sharp chains. I am amazed that guys say they can get chains as sharp/level/same as a machine that can easily hold all that to thousandths. You need to set your cross angle and the sharpening angle set correctly to get a good sharp chain.

Believe it or not. I have a cheap imported sharpener and a Expensive Oregon sharpener. The cheap sharpener will do as good of job as the better Oregon one. The difference is the time and skill it takes to do it. With the Oregon sharpener once it is set anyone can get good results IF they do not "HOG" the teeth too fast. The little imported one will get good results but you have to "tweak " it as you use it. The frame on it has some back lash. You can "lean" the stone into the cutter to "shape" the edge better.

If your chains do not cut right after they are run on a machine then it is more than likely the OPERATOR not the machine that is the problem.

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I think it is true of all machines, even a crescent wrench. The skill of the operator makes a lot of difference on how well the tool works. My dad always said a good craftsman can do good work with poor tools and a poor craftsman can't do good work with good tools. Took me a long time to realize he was right. Your description of using your cheap sharpener is an example. I've enjoyed watching craftsmen in foreign countries do amazing machine work with worn out lathes and no real measuring tools.

i agree jiles ,never could understand how guys can tell the difference between 30 and 35 degrees with a file. but im sure some one will explain it to me.

There's one thing you don't have to do and that is keep that angle perfect. You hand sharpen chains long enough you will learn how much to take off and how to true a chain back up . All my big saws don't have the rakers and small saws do have rakers because they don't have the power to handle a chain with out rakers.

I have a fairly expensive Oregon sharpener, similar to your Belsaw. I'm not real happy with it, and only use it on chains that are heavily worn. The big problem with it is that the motor really needs to be reversible, otherwise it's not going to sharpen the two sides of the chain evenly. The high-end grinders have this feature.

Interestingly, some folks have found a trick for reversing Oregon grinders using a drill motor.
Reversing an Oregon chain grinder

This one has reverse.

(quoted from post at 17:39:49 02/19/16) Neighbor gives me an old chainsaw sharpener. Finally got around to using the chains I sharpened
with the belsaw sharpener. I was not impressed with the way they cut. Using the dremel tool with a
diamond burr cuts so much better.

I talked to a couple of men who cut trees for a living. They like the old file. As for me, I never
was good using a file. I'm staying with the dremel tool.

Click to expand...

George, you have to get the manual and set the grinder correctly for the chain you are using with the proper sized stone and the stone has to be correctly contoured by dressing it. It takes a bit of time to set up a grinder correctly and to learn to do a good job with it.

You can probably find a manual on line (free) here- http://foleyfiler.blogspot.com/ If they don't have it for the model grinder you have you can likely find a manual on Ebay for a few bucks. You can also find tips on fine tuning the grinder here- http://www.arboristsite.com/community/forums/chain-sharpening.74/

Like I told you before, if you want to get rid of the useless, pain in the butt grinder let me know.

Bret4207,
Neighbor gave it to me, I can't sell it. I told him I would sharpen his chains with it. You may be
right, it's a learning curve to make any tool work right. I really don't see any time savings using
the belsaw vs my dremel. Belsaw just takes up more space on work bench. There is a tree service
just 2 miles from me, I'll pick his brain on tips how to set it up. He may think it will make a
good boat anchor. Not worth much for scrap. Yes I have 3 different cutting wheels. geo

(quoted from post at 09:41:46 02/20/16) There's one thing you don't have to do and that is keep that angle perfect. You hand sharpen chains long enough you will learn how much to take off and how to true a chain back up . All my big saws don't have the rakers and small saws do have rakers because they don't have the power to handle a chain with out rakers.

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[b:de45cc07db]"All my big saws don't have the rakers"[/b:de45cc07db]

I tried removing the rakers on three different brand chains. I tried them on a 90cc saw nearly 20 years ago. What little bit I cut was very aggressive--enough that I had trouble holding the saw, with all the jerking, until the chains broke!
What brand chain do you use?

You guys are kidding right????? Company's like Oregon and Stihl have done extensive research on chainsaw chains. They designed them with correct angles, raker height. Grinding off the rakers is pure nonsense, and dangerous. Kickback increases, causes stress on the rivets leading to broken chains ETC the list goes on and on. Have you ever seen a chain shot off the tip of the bar? As I stated above, look at your drivelink number look up he chain model and get your angles and size file and raker depth. You can tweek these if cutting frozen or hard woods.
I've done this all of my life. One of the true things I'm very proficient at. I've been a contract climber, veneer timber cutter, it's the only job I've had my adult life. Please be safe, everyone is an expert with a chainsaw, just ask around!

Rakers on a chainsaw chain are there to limit the depth of cut.
Same principle as adjusting the depth of cut with a hand plane.

My brother loaned me his electric sharpener. He had it all set up to proper angles. I sharpened a few chains with it and was not satisfied. It left a bur on the top of the tooth. This caused the tooth to get dul very quickly. I went back to my old hand file. The kind that clamps to the blade. Way better. I had been thinking about buying an electric sharpener. Glad I had a chance to use his. Now I'll keep using my hand file.

(quoted from post at 11:23:08 02/20/16) Bret4207,
Neighbor gave it to me, I can't sell it. I told him I would sharpen his chains with it. You may be
right, it's a learning curve to make any tool work right. I really don't see any time savings using
the belsaw vs my dremel. Belsaw just takes up more space on work bench. There is a tree service
just 2 miles from me, I'll pick his brain on tips how to set it up. He may think it will make a
good boat anchor. Not worth much for scrap. Yes I have 3 different cutting wheels. geo

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What it will do, that your Dremel won't, is give you equal length cutters all ground at precisely the same angle, hook and rake. The Dremel is essentially a freehand operation and a careless operator can ruin a chain fast. Time savings is not what a grinder is about. Accuracy and repeatability is what a grinder is about. Best of luck!

(quoted from post at 12:04:14 02/20/16) You guys are kidding right????? Company's like Oregon and Stihl have done extensive research on chainsaw chains. They designed them with correct angles, raker height. Grinding off the rakers is pure nonsense, and dangerous. Kickback increases, causes stress on the rivets leading to broken chains ETC the list goes on and on. Have you ever seen a chain shot off the tip of the bar? As I stated above, look at your drivelink number look up he chain model and get your angles and size file and raker depth. You can tweek these if cutting frozen or hard woods.
I've done this all of my life. One of the true things I'm very proficient at. I've been a contract climber, veneer timber cutter, it's the only job I've had my adult life. Please be safe, everyone is an expert with a chainsaw, just ask around!

Click to expand...

I agree completely. Removing the rakers (depth gauges) is foolish at best, dangerous at worst.

(quoted from post at 18:35:04 02/20/16) My brother loaned me his electric sharpener. He had it all set up to proper angles. I sharpened a few chains with it and was not satisfied. It left a bur on the top of the tooth. This caused the tooth to get dul very quickly. I went back to my old hand file. The kind that clamps to the blade. Way better. I had been thinking about buying an electric sharpener. Glad I had a chance to use his. Now I'll keep using my hand file.

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I don't suppose your brother loaned you a professional grade grinder and walked you through how to set it up and use it, did he? Having a grinder set to the proper angle is about 10% of the set up. And if it was a cheapy Harbor Freight/Nothern Tool grinder and not a $350-1200.00 Oregon, Silvey, Tecomec or other brand name grinder then you have to be even more aware of the pitfalls of that design, like the fact they ONLY do top plate angle and depth of grind, and work with it.

There's nothing wrong with a file at all, but a grinder takes some training and time to learn to use.

This thread brings back memories of a few years ago:
I have a close friend that inherited an old South Bend Lathe.
After ruining a lot of small items, he decided he could do a better job by cutting with a hacksaw and finishing with a file.
He only used the lathe for sanding/polishing.
At the time, he lived several hundred miles from me and had asked me many questions about using the lathe and last year he moved back home.
He seriously considered leaving the lathe until I encouraged him not to.
After he got settled in, I went over and gave him a crash course on how to used the South Bend. He had no understanding of "backlash" or how to shape a cutting tool, said he thought it was completely worn out.
He is now amazed at what he can accomplish, is still learning, and it is now his favorite tool.

(quoted from post at 12:07:05 02/21/16) This thread brings back memories of a few years ago:
I have a close friend that inherited an old South Bend Lathe.
After ruining a lot of small items, he decided he could do a better job by cutting with a hacksaw and finishing with a file.
He only used the lathe for sanding/polishing.
At the time, he lived several hundred miles from me and had asked me many questions about using the lathe and last year he moved back home.
He seriously considered leaving the lathe until I encouraged him not to.
After he got settled in, I went over and gave him a crash course on how to used the South Bend. He had no understanding of "backlash" or how to shape a cutting tool, said he thought it was completely worn out.
He is now amazed at what he can accomplish, is still learning, and it is now his favorite tool.

Click to expand...

A lot of us really have no clue that we don't know what we don't know! Been there, done that, got the tee shirt!

I have a wheel chainsaw grinder I bought from the old Zip Penn company back in 1977 its worked great and does a very good job.Biggest mistake a lot of people make is being too
aggressive with the grinding just touching the cutter a couple times does the job unless you been cutting nails and rocks.