Looking for advice on oxy-acetylene purchase

Getting ready to invest in a torch set. Looking at the Smith torches, which are still made in the US, and thinking that the medium duty set will probably be plenty to get me started. Mostly I'll use it for hardening and tempering larger parts (gunsmithing and tool making), heating and "tweaking" larger forged parts (blacksmithing, period reproduction hinges, etc), and more recently tractor repair including heating stuck parts, maybe welding sheet metal, and as I get better with it some of the more typical "blue wrench" jobs.

One of the tips I've used in the past when I was learning blacksmithing was a rosebud tip, and it was very useful for heating larger pieces quickly in order to tweak them. But in looking at the Smith torches and the sizes of acetylene tanks recommended locally, I'm a little confused and I was hoping this forum had some advice.

The kit I'm looking at has the Smith WH100 handle and the MT603 heating tip, which is stated as using 28 SCFH of acetylene. If I do the math right so as not to draw more than 1/7 of the tank per hour, I'd need at least 196 CF of acetylene, right?

The largest tank my local supplier lists for typical use is 145 CF and it's a pretty big tank, paired with a 250 CF oxygen tank. I need to go back during the week and talk with one of the guys at the shop.. I suspect I'll get better info than I did on Saturday with the weekend help. But it seems like that tank isn't big enough for that tip.

I wondered what other folks were using for rosebud tips (or just for heating stuck parts in general) and what size tanks you're using. I've got plenty of space for storage, but I'd like to be able to roll the cart around the shop and even outside depending on the project.

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Greg

Propane is a lot cheaper than acetylene.

For that type of work - It's hard to beat a forge. It will be $$ to use oxy-acetylene.

(quoted from post at 23:00:26 03/25/12) For that type of work - It's hard to beat a forge. It will be $$ to use oxy-acetylene.

Click to expand...

My forge is fairly small though. The torch comes in handy for spot heat.. not used real often or for real long, works great for the big parts that once assembled don't easily fit into the forge any more. Big 5' fireplace cranes, or 3' hinges that are almost perfect but need a little tweak on the pintle end.

Also don't want to put the Ford axle trumpet in the forge in an attempt to get the lift arm pin unstuck ... It's some of the tractor work that is leading me towards getting the torch, but I know I'll use them for other stuff too once I have them.

You could always hook two or more acetylene tanks together with a manifold to allow larger acetylene draws.

I don't use my torch much since I bought a plasma cutter, but
do use a rosebud now and then with Med. size tanks works
fine for what I'm doing. Been doing wrought iron for 20 yr
trend for me has been increasing volume and keep inputs
down. Tanks are expensive to buy / lease and fill. Look for a
used Johnson forge.

Hi Greg,

Sometimes when you think you need to use a rosebud, you actually don't. Here's an example: Yesterday in the metal art class at the college, an artist needed to bend some 5/8" rebar and thought she needed the rosebud to do it. Both of the convenient portable oxy/acetylene rigs had dedicated cutting torches installed, which meant that I would have had to undo the hoses on one of them, connect a torch body, and put the rosebud on that. I happened to be working on a project of my own, so I wasn't keen on taking the time to do that (just finding where the last person to use it had left the torch body is the kind of complication that normally takes much longer than the actual procedure). I suggested to the woman that she try heating the steel with the cutting torch---warning her to be careful not to press the high pressure oxygen lever---and if it didn't work I'd get the rosebud set up for her. But it worked fine, saved me some time, and probably used only a small fraction of the fuel gases that the rosebud would have used to accomplish the same thing.

Another student wanted to use the rosebud to do something that realistically required so little heat that I told him he could do it with a number 1 tip at one of the oxy/acetylene welding stations. It was faster for him and that saved me some time, too.

Stan

The Gas company will sell you what you need if they
know you are using a rose bud.

I can give you a better answer tomorrow but for
short periods you can exceed the 1/7th capacity per
hour. Using a large cutting tip might be all you
need too.

I had a similar discussion about acetylene etc. with my welding supplier this past Friday. Even though he commonly sells acetylene to the people who want it, he recommends switching to propylene gas or just plain old LP gas in a BBQ tank. I have a Smith set just like you have described, but without the rosebud tip. I have used the cutting torch for 40 years without the extra oxygen being turned on for heating and bending.

My suggestion is to get the Smith set of your choice, and get the oxygen cylinder the size you are comfortable with. Try this with a 20 lb LP tank as the fuel gas regulator and its fittings are the same for LP and acetylene. The one difference is the cutting tip for LP is different than the tip for acetylene (probably less than $20). You will want a cutting head any way. Try this for a while as you learn to adjust the LP flame (a bit different from the acetylene flame). This is your lowest cost solution for heating, cutting, and brazing. But at any time in the future, you can purchase an acetylene tank if you really want it, and your Smith set is already set up for the switch over at no additional cost.

One fine point to consider with this solution is the new Smith regulator for acetylene is limited to output pressure of 15 psi, while the regulator sold for LP can go up to 30 or 40 psi output. In the 45 years of farm equipment repair and some blacksmithing, I have never set the LP pressure even as high as 15 psi. At some future time one of my grandsons might inherit one of my torch sets and decide to use acetylene, so I specifically purchase the acetylene rated regulator, but use it for my LP gas. Between myself and my 2 son's shops, we have 4 Smith torch sets using LP and find it quite satisfactory. But if you are gas welding steel or aluminum, you will need to get the acetylene (or maybe the propylene).

If you have not purchased the torch set yet, Smith makes 3 sizes. I find the small "airline" series of torches my "go to" size or preference. It gives good heat and is light weight and easy on the hand, and also can get into tight places. We also have 2 sets of the medium size and find it useful for cutting scrap, heating big stuff, and setting it in a torch holder for blacksmithing where you bring the iron to the torch. For hand held torch work, I'll pick the small airline series every time. Try it out at your welding dealer, you might like the feel of the smaller torch.

Smith torches now have a lifetime warantee. My dealer has said Smith has been really easy to work with on the warantee. They are made in South Dakota.

Good luck in making the right choice for your needs.

Paul in MN

Thanks everyone for the useful advice. Sounds like I can certainly get started and probably do all of the heating I need to do with just a cutting torch while staying off the O2 handle. I do like the size of the AW1A "airline" handle.. very similar to the smaller torch that my friend Steve has. I think I'll start with that, the cutting attachment and an LP cutting tip, a brazing tip, O2 and acetylene regulators, and a short section of T-grade hose.

Down the road I can add acetylene and a welding tip if I need it, but defer the question of how big a tank I need until then.

For heating large areas of cast iron, it does look like the weed burning torch could perhaps provide a cost effective way to do that as well.

Thanks again!
Greg

Years ago I had a Smiths and a Victor Journeyman set. They were both excellent.
The late T-Bone who made many excellent posts on here, about welding suggested that I go to a lighter weight Victor 100 torch.
That was the best advice I ever got on OA welding. That smaller light weight torch is 10 times easier to use and better for aging hands.
I"m sure Smith makes one that size too.
But I can"t over emphasize get the smaller size torch. You will not regret it.

Since you are not welding consider using propane.20 bucks for a refill.Victor customer service is lousy and their small torch kits come from China,nothing is marked.The hose and spark lighter are the only US parts.The shipping box is marked in very fine print as to country of origin.

Thanks again for all the advice. Pulled the trigger on a Smith medium-duty LP cutting/heating/brazing setup. Wanted to get the smaller torch but the price of ordering things separately (vs. a kit) was significantly higher. I could buy the smaller torch handle and a few tips for it with the money I saved by buying the kit! Includes a 200,000 btu rosebud that will drain a 250cf O2 cylinder in just over an hour, using about half of a 20lb propane tank in the process. Also includes a cutting attachment, cutting tips and brazing tips.

Going to keep my eye out for a deal on the smaller torch handle, but for now this set up will definitely be a big help with multiple projects.

Thanks again!
Greg