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Electrical issue w/new generator

C

Chip812

Member
Well... not brand new... has 5 hours on it... Has two GFCI 20 amp 115v duplex outlets side by side... one works fine, the other doesn't.... It won't 'reset'... I fiddled with it a little and noticed that if I held the reset switch in then it would work... So I'm guessing that it is a bad GFCI outlet... mainly based on the fact that it won't reset (even with nothing plugged in) and that it produced electricity when the reset button is held in... Am I correct or do I need to look for another cause? Thanks... :?
8)
 
The electricity has to pass THROUGH the reset button first, so that is the first thing to check out, being that current will flow to the outlet when the button is held in.
 
I cant say whats wrong not being there, but I can say from experience those cheap run of the mill GFCI's sure go bad often.

On those small gensets with on board receptacles the gennys Neutral is usually bonded to the iron frame/case. In the event the GFCI has a missing or open safety (green/bare) ground circuit, they can still work and trip out if most of (like within 5 milliamps if I recall) the current flowing out the hot isnt being returned via the Neutral i.e. cuz its leaking elsewhere HOWEVER the test function doesnt work because the test leakage ground path isnt available.

Im pretty sure thats right and how they work but remember Im pretty rusty on this stuff. I do know theres a torroidal core surrounding the Hot and Neutral and if both currents are equal since they are out of phase no voltage gets induced into the core causing the trip out HOWEVER if some current is leaking and returning elsewhere a voltage gets induced into the coil because there is net current flow

I would check allllllll the connections on that GFCI and from whence they came and the Neutral to frame bond.

Maybe some of the more current sparky types have good ideas.....

John T
 
(quoted from post at 16:52:37 11/30/11) I cant say whats wrong not being there, but I can say from experience those cheap run of the mill GFCI's sure go bad often.

On those small gensets with on board receptacles the gennys Neutral is usually bonded to the iron frame/case. In the event the GFCI has a missing or open safety (green/bare) ground circuit, they can still work and trip out if most of (like within 5 milliamps if I recall) the current flowing out the hot isnt being returned via the Neutral i.e. cuz its leaking elsewhere HOWEVER the test function doesnt work because the test leakage ground path isnt available.

Im pretty sure thats right and how they work but remember Im pretty rusty on this stuff. I do know theres a torroidal core surrounding the Hot and Neutral and if both currents are equal since they are out of phase no voltage gets induced into the core causing the trip out HOWEVER if some current is leaking and returning elsewhere a voltage gets induced into the coil because there is net current flow



I would check allllllll the connections on that GFCI and from whence they came and the Neutral to frame bond.

Maybe some of the more current sparky types have good ideas.....

John T
Click to expand...


That's better than what I had... I'll see if I can get to the back of the outlet... Easiest way I know to check the GFCI, is to swap it out with a good one and see if that fixes it....
8)
 

This is not your problem. Just thought I'd add this.
The contact in those GFCI's is on the small side. We've found it is best to remove the load before pushing the reset button. This would be if it's a feed through GFCI and the load is down stream.

Dusty
 
If you are plugging into a motor home, trailer
or house with a bond between the ground and
neutral. And if the generator is also neutral
bonded to ground. A working gfi will trip
instantly.

If this genset of for home/barn/shop backup
power. Use a proper transfer switch and the
120/240 plug.
Fiddle dicking around with extension cords
through doors and windows is for the birds.
An open door or window to allow power cords
through has killed numerous folk.
 
Might be too old to recall, but I think I remember installing GFCI's when no grounding was available at metal box. Think they would test and reset like normal. That's what most city inspectors recommended--No grounding, install GFCI. Dave, very old time electrician and contractor.
 
(quoted from post at 20:14:47 11/30/11)
This is not your problem. Just thought I'd add this.
The contact in those GFCI's is on the small side. We've found it is best to remove the load before pushing the reset button. This would be if it's a feed through GFCI and the load is down stream.

Dusty
Click to expand...
Tried it with nothing plugged in... RESET button won't stay pushed in....
 
(quoted from post at 21:33:44 11/30/11) If you are plugging into a motor home, trailer
or house with a bond between the ground and
neutral. And if the generator is also neutral
bonded to ground. A working gfi will trip
instantly.

If this genset of for home/barn/shop backup
power. Use a proper transfer switch and the
120/240 plug.
Fiddle dicking around with extension cords
through doors and windows is for the birds.
An open door or window to allow power cords
through has killed numerous folk.
Click to expand...
Yep. Agree on all points... However, this generator is for more than just that (some parts of the 250 acres don't have outlets handy)... I'll be 'limited' if all the outlets on it don't work properly...
8)
 
(quoted from post at 22:20:34 11/30/11) Might be too old to recall, but I think I remember installing GFCI's when no grounding was available at metal box. Think they would test and reset like normal. That's what most city inspectors recommended--No grounding, install GFCI. Dave, very old time electrician and contractor.
Click to expand...
Don't know where you live, but around here I don't think that would pass inspection... When I built my house, the inspector was there WHILE they were wiring stuff up... Sometimes twice a day... (I was the only one in the area building a house at the time, so that might have had something to do with it... Fortunately, I had hired an excellent electrical contractor and there were no issues...)
8)
EDIT: From my searches on the inter-web, I think 2003 was when they started getting really particular with the GFCI and the way they worked...
 
I have seen the GFCI outlets fail when excessive current is pulled
through them, AKA circular saw. They trip and do not work again. I
would replace the outlet and go from there.

Is it under warranty?
 
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