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Discussion Forum

6013 break test!

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Puddles

06-26-2011 08:06:34




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WOW! I'm sure glad stick weld ask me to do this, boy this isn't good at all. Broke with about three hits of a 4-pound hammer. Then I separated the two pieces by hand!
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Couldn't quite get a full 1/4-inch fillet, so it must be about 7/32-inch.
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Top plate.

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Bottom plate.

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Butch(OH)

06-26-2011 19:17:54




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 Re: 6013 break test! in reply to Puddles, 06-26-2011 08:06:34  
I am not a real welder, just a wannabe but years ago I discovered the glass like properties of 6013 when I was looking for rod for tack welding that struck easier than the 7018 we always used for structural. Just wanted something to tack the parts together and be able to knock the them around a bit to square things up before welding. I soon learned that 6013 held decent until yield but as soon as it yields it gets very weak and breaks, same as in your test. Like you that made me weary of using 6013 for anything other than I keep some 3/32 around for work that real welders do with a MIG. I use 6011 for tacking up weldements now but still do most of my non-specialized work with 7018 as that is what I was taught to weld with.

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Stick welder

06-26-2011 20:09:11




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 Re: 6013 break test! in reply to Butch(OH), 06-26-2011 19:17:54  
6010 is common for tack welding pieces together because it's easy to restrike an arc. 7018 is good for stronger tacks and hot tacking. Hot tacking is when you need to move something a little bit but can't hold it where you want. You put a tack and then hit with a hammer as soon as it cools from red hot and it holds where you want it. A 7018 tack can hold a lot. Hot tacking is used a lot for things like sucking checker plate down on skids or lining up the shell of a large tank with a circle marked around the base. The base is usually about an inch bigger than the tank diameter.

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denny-o

06-26-2011 18:18:13




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 Re: 6013 break test! in reply to Puddles, 06-26-2011 08:06:34  
As I said, I have changed over to 7018 based on what you fellas have posted here, and now that I have the polarity correct (doh - dunno where I 'thought' I read that it wanted negative polarity) it seems to weld nicely...
I'm going to the supplier get some more steel tomorrow for this incinerator I'm building and I will get a length of thicker bar and do the two break tests for myself...
I have not done much welding, but I grew up on a farm and you had to be able to stick broken stuff back together with a buzz box as dad couldn't pay anyone for repairs, so I know just enough to be dangerous...
Anyway, picking up a ton of real world information here on YT... I currently have three tractors undergoing repair/rebuild and this group is a real resource for solving problems with old iron...

cheers...

denny in michigan...

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Puddles

06-26-2011 16:43:45




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 Re: 6013 break test! in reply to chvet73, 06-26-2011 08:06:34  
NawlensGator to be honest with you I can't ever remember running any 6013 until about a year or so ago. You just don't see this rod on structural jobs, or at least I never did. Until the late 1970's it was all 7018, after that it was all Innershield. I have read comments all over the Internet about not trusting 6013. I know a guy from Ireland who posts gorgeous pictures of pipe welds with 6013! He says 6013 is the go to rod for pipe welding in Europe. My first experience with 6013 was with Lincoln brand, I didn't like it at all! I bought this Forney rod, and liked it better, so I did the V-groove bend test and was very happy with the results, I was getting a warm and fussy feeling about 6013 right about then! So I just wrote everybody off as they didn't know what they were talking about. Then stick welder asked me to do this test, I thought why? The V-groove test had great results! Man was I glad I did! When the weld snapped at only three licks of the hammer I thought to my self, you got to be sheeting me! The next blow put the top plate right over on top of the bottom plate. I unclamped the plates, and pull them apart with my hands! The same test with 7018, the weld never snapped, even after beating the top plate down on top of the bottom plate, then I had to beat them apart with the hammer! Don't know about you, but I'll never trust 6013!

denny-o no worries here, I'm not insulted at all. I'm really not that good of a weldor, I claim to be a much better rigger, I don't even blink at 300-ton picks. But when it comes to welding I can hold my own with the average guy, and more importantly to me, I fooled a lot of people for a lot of years with my welding ability, and I could probably get a job tomorrow if I wanted to.
If you look at picture #5 that weld would not take too much more heat, without running the risk of undercutting the top leg. I ran this weld on DCRP, you can't get much more penetration than that, unless you bevel the plate. Far as I'm concerned and your opinion may be different than mine, but this weld was a very sound weld on my end, the weld just didn't have any yield to it at all! I'll stick with 7018 from now on! :wink:

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Stick welder

06-26-2011 19:49:53




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 Re: 6013 break test! in reply to Puddles, 06-26-2011 16:43:45  
Puddles, you're much too humble! I'd trust your welding any day of the week. As far as 6013, we did some practicing with it in high school when we were first learning how to weld because it is easy to strike an arc and burn. Then we moved on to 7014, 6010 and 7018. The second year we never even looked at 6013. Mostly 6010 and 7018. I had an exceptional welding teacher in high school with tons of experience. I asked him why 6013 was never used on welding projects. He said it was a garbage rod and about the only thing it's good for is practicing and thin sheet metal. Farmers liked it because it was easy to weld with. Coming from him, that was good enough for me! I just thought doing a bend test with it after having done a 7018 test might confirm why most welders don't recommend it. Maybe it's jinxed because it ends in 13? Tall buildings don't have a 13th floor either.

I was horrible with 7018 at first but after practising with it the most on the teachers advice, I became one of the best in the class with 7018. Maybe because I was fascinated with welding and wanted to learn as much as I could? I think that's why I'm so impressed with Lanse and want to help him as much as I can. He reminds me of myself at that age.

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Fullthrottle

06-26-2011 18:04:58




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 Re: 6013 break test! in reply to Puddles, 06-26-2011 16:43:45  
In regard to not running 6013, I learned to weld from my Dad who was self taught,he never had a stick of 6013,in high school (70's) the instructor of the metals class was a structual welder whom had been injured and had then took up teaching, he never even MENTIONED 6013. I took some formal classes(vo tech-mostly pipe welding)saw it in the book,and we discussed it,never saw a stick there either. Went to take an X-ray test for a potential job welding pipe, the guy running the show (don't know his title but he wasn't a welder, possibly an engineer?) handed me a stick of 6013 for the root weld. Only time I've ever seen it. Things changed and I pursued a different job,but really was the only time I've ever heard ANYONE recommend it. O and I flunked!

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Stick welder

06-26-2011 19:22:42




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 Re: 6013 break test! in reply to Fullthrottle, 06-26-2011 18:04:58  
The guy might have been testing you when he handed you the 6013 for the root pass to see if you noticed it wasn't the right rod?



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denny-o

06-26-2011 12:45:46




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 Re: 6013 break test! in reply to Puddles, 06-26-2011 08:06:34  
It does not appear to me that the weld melted into the vertical piece and looks like it is just laying on top of the base metal - like an auto body weld...

Now, let me hasten to say that this is not criticism of the welder (who knows a hundred times more than I do) but simply what I think I see in the photos... Optical illusion?



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Buzzman72

06-26-2011 13:28:46




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 Re: 6013 break test! in reply to denny-o, 06-26-2011 12:45:46  
"...looks like it is just laying on top of the base metal - like an auto body weld..."

Sounds like you're describing what we called "cold lap"...and I don't think cold lap is acceptable in auto body welding either.



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Stick welder

06-26-2011 13:12:49




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 Re: 6013 break test! in reply to denny-o, 06-26-2011 12:45:46  
That was about as close to a perfect weld as you can get with 6013. If there wouldn't have been sufficient fusion in the vertical piece, it would have broke at the edge of the weld and not left part of the weld attached to it. It broke in the throat of the weld where it's supposed to. This was a perfect way to show the difference between the strength of 6013 vs 7018. Of all the different rods made, 6013 is by far the weakest and will break the easiest. That's why experienced welders don't recommend it. A good auto body weld needs to have proper fusion too, just like any other weld.

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NawlensGator

06-26-2011 11:38:31




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 Re: 6013 break test! in reply to Puddles, 06-26-2011 08:06:34  
So what is your conclusion from all of these tests. You haven't really said and I'd be curious to know.



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Stick welder

06-26-2011 09:37:06




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 Re: 6013 break test! in reply to Puddles, 06-26-2011 08:06:34  
That's close enough. I bet if you stitch welded it with 7018 would be stronger. Contrary to what some people think, there is a reason why I don't recommend 6013 for anything other than sheet metal or really light duty projects. I won't even buy 6013. 7014 is a better choice but for strength 6010/6011 and for maximum strength 7018 are the way to go. Thanks for doing that Puddles. If that isn't enough proof, I don't know what is.

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Stick welder

06-26-2011 09:56:15




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 Re: 6013 break test! in reply to Stick welder, 06-26-2011 09:37:06  
Oh and don't forget, that was with premium 6013. I wonder how much better thay are than the non premium 6013?



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