Hows my Frame Work?

Hey guys!! Sorry about the whole no trailer update thing, I spent last weekend in the great state of Texas, my mom had a meeting there last week, and so I flew down to Dallas Thursday night, and we did the touristy thing there. It was amazing. We went and saw Luke Bryan play at Billy Bob's, the worlds largest honky tonk, and visited the JFK museum and a few other places, before heading down to Austin to see some family and drive some tractors (video to come). But, Im back in Ohio now, and this is what I've accomplished. Okay, so I did this before I left, but I'm just now sharing.

Anyway, these are the original frame welds. They don't look that great to me:





And so I re-welded them. I used my Hobart 187 on the 1/8" setting. I wanted to go a little hotter, but when I turned it up a notch, it burned through, so I turned it back down. Im a first year welding student at my high school, and we learned how to do O/A welding and stick in all positions, but we haven't learned mig yet. Regardless, I cut up some 1/8" pieces for practice with one of the Miller 252s we have before doing this at home. The miller was super easy to adjust and had a very fine, soft arc. My Hobart isnt easy to adjust, and has an arc thats hard to describe. Its smooth, but still pretty forceful and is just way different than the millers. I like the Hobarts arc better for most things, just not thin stuff, as Ive learned.

So, here it is. What do yall think??

looks good to me. You continue to amaze/impress me with your growing skill set. I like the fact that you are learning patience and trying/doing it "right" the first time.

Keep up the good work.

Rick

Man oh man those are some nice Mig welds!
I'm jealous!

I think I was twice your age before I could weld 1/2 that good!! Looks really good Lanse!! Keep practicing and congrads on your progress.

The original frame welds look like robotic welds...only takes a little slag or spatter in the wrong place to get them welding out-of-seam.

YOUR welds look pretty good to me...I think you would've fit in really well at the frame plant where I used to work...although, honestly, other than the guys who worked in the Rework and tthe Repair areas did that much, or that long, of welds manually.

For our frame work at the plant, we used .045" ER70S-6 wire...40-pound spools on the manual machines, and 1000-pound spools [changed out by the forklift drivers, with weld tech splicing the wire from the old spool to the new one] for the robotic welds down the length of the sidebars.

What wire did you use?

You probably didn't need to redo the frame welds since they've lasted this long but if your teacher gave you 100% for your earlier project, that wasn't cleaned up, he'd have to give you about 200% for those MIG welds!!! AWESOME!

Now if we consider this forum a family, then Lanse, you must be the son.
It is a wonderful thing as we watch you steadily learn and gain maturity.
I used to smile at how you went about things when you first started posting but I was always impressed with your perseverance!
Keep up the good work; there is nothing more satisfying than accomplishing something using your own two hands under the able direction of an inquisitive mind.
You are becoming a great welder!!

Thre are a lot of folks who might say that what you did in re-welding the seam on the frame was a waste, that the original weld was adequate for what the trailer's going to be used for, and all that stuff.

I say, if you're going to be welding on the trailer. you may as well have ALL the welds up to YOUR standards, especially if YOUR standards are higher than the standards of the original manufacturer. I mean, there are people who will simply "rebuild" an engine, and then there are those who will "balance and blueprint" an engine in order to get it to meet THEIR own standards. [I know an older gentleman who restored an International pickup, and besides everything else he did to ensure the job met his machinist-style standards, he even balanced the CLUTCH assembly.]

I call it "taking some pride in your work," and I'm proud that you would take the extra time, and welding wire, to do it.

Those welds show why, when I was building stock cars, I completely rewelded any portion of the original frame I used.

Then I graduated to a point where I built the entire frame from scratch anyway.

The welds look great. The only thing I might suggest, slow down just a wee bit. When the bead looks like a stack of dimes laying down, you know you've got the speed right. Good fusion at the toe, so that weld will hold. By the way, did you ever get you drill press? Give me a shout, my email's open, I might be able to fix you up with one if you're close enough to me. Just my thoughts, Keith

Oh I think the kid is just going for this modern / popular look.

Keith-Email sent, thanks man
Puddles-That loots great!! Ive seen pictures, and
yes, I was just going for that look, but I couldn't
quite pull it off. I used the settings on the cover,
but the bead was too tall. In hindsight, should I
have turned down the wfs and cranked up the voltage
a little more?? Id love to lay down beads that look
like that

Thanks man!! I ran .035" ER70 wire, hobart brand stuff... I used the usual c25 as well.

Yeah, I didn't wanna sink a lot of time/money into this thing, just to have ugly as crap welds that would make the whole project look like a hackjob. So, I went ahead with it. Im way better with stick than I am with mig, in hindsight, I could have also gone with some 3/32 6013, or even 7018 on there.

This GM stuff may last, but looking at things like this, thats a miracle. It was made 20 years ago by the lowest bidder, as is the same for all manufacturers.

I try to live/work by two mottos:

-If its worth doing, its worth doing right
-Overkill is an often under-rated achievement (Will Hayden Sons of Guns)

And thanks man, positive encouragement on thins like this means a lot to me, and makes it all worth doing. It probably would have held, and I wouldn't have probably bothered with re-welding it, if I didn't care what everyone thought, and how it would look.

Haha, thanks man!! We started tig welding at school today finally, so I cant wait to post some of that

Thanks Puddles!! I really appreciate that,
especially coming from a great weldor like you!!

Lanse, I grew up hanging around the shop where Grand-dad and Pappy [my dad] primarily worked on tractors [mostly Farmalls]. In the 1940's and '50's they wre International Truck and Hudson automobile dealers, but in 1961 they moved into a smaller shop after sufring some [uninsured] flood damage in 1959 at thir old location.

Grand-dad had an old Marquette AC stick welder--I was told he bought it USED when he opened his own garage in 1941--and an equally old Victor oxyacetylene rig. As a teenager, I literally BEGGED Grand-dad to teach me to weld, but he always said, "You boys don't need to know that."

Well, this part of "you boys" got hired at the frame plant in 2000 [30 years later], and the company put us through an intense 5-day MIG welding school. Most of what we did were not much more than tack welds, never over about 2-3" long.

My first day on the floor in the plant, I was sent to Op 80 Repair. 80 Repair is where we inspected the trailer hitches, which also served as the #6 crossmember AND the rear bumper reinforcement. If any welds were out of seam, we had a 4-1/2" DaWalt grinder to grind them out,and a Miller Bobcat MIG welder [propane powered, just like the forklifts...because whn they set up the op, they apparently "forgot" about the need for a repair station]to re-weld them.

The next night, I was sent after first break over to the op where they welded tapping plates into front frame sections. Up to first break, the girl who HAD been working that station had apparently LOST THE NOZZLE on her MIG early on in the shift, and hadn't noticed the OBVIOUS porosity. So two of us were sent to the op after break...Jerry ground out the bad welds, and I re-welded the tapping plated properly in the fixture. I think we had 3 crates of sidebars to re-work! So by my second night on the plant floor, if I'd originally lacked confidence in my welding, that lack of confidence was gone!

AFTER the frame plant closed, I hauled Grand-dad's old Marquette stick welder to MY garage [by then, someone had broken into Grand-dad's shop and cut the hoses and stolen the old torch]. I took a 3-hour a night, once a week adult ed class for 12 weeks to learn welding [besides the MIG I'd already done]. I learned basic stick oxyacetylene welding [and loved it!]...but with a dozen students and only ONE TIG machine, I never got my turn there.

I encourage you to keep learning everything you can in the field. Even if you don't use it to make a living--and with your skills, I'm positive you could make a living at it--it can still bring you lots of enjoyment. In fact, I'd recommend you pick up a street rod or a rod and custom style magazine, and look at some of the frame and chassis fabrication these guys do...I'm beginning to think that maybe hot rod and custom chassis work might be right up your alley.

I know that, if I had learned to weld at age 17 instead of age 45, that's where I'd be today.

Slow down? Lanse's welds are already bigger than required and the right profile. Actually his welds are almost perfect, he just didn't use a slight whipping motion to get the more distinct ripples. Both techniques are acceptable. Stack of dimes is usually referring to 6010 welds not MIG. His trailer project does look better with his new frame welds though. It's great practice for him. I only mentioned that the frame probably would have held together with the factory welds because the truck lasted for over 300,000 miles on the road. I bet there's a lot of people that would gladly pay Lanse to weld for them, if they saw welds like he did on the frame.

You're right Dave the welds do look good.

Thanks guys!! No whipping motion, just the little circly things.

Im really looking for welding work this summer. I can't find anything that great around here, or anything period, places all want years of experience (usually 5+) and most everything is production work (the most boring kind of welding). So, I guess I'm s.o.l.

I really wanna do repair work, farm stuff, etc. And fabricating basic things would be great as well. Im trying to come up with things to make and sell, but thats easier said than done.

Yes Dave I'm sure Lanse will give you a job when he opens his own shop after he gets out of school. You can ease up a bit now.

Not all production work is boring and not all repair work is the best either. Hard to say something is boring, when you've never done it. I'd rather be doing boring welding than be man handling a 7" grinder all week long. Some shops the first year welders never even weld. Look for a place to start an apprenticeship. Don't worry too much about building stuff to sell yet. Work on your career first. New fabrication will teach you the most and you'll probably enjoy it the most. You're working on new clean steel without paint and oil and grease, etc. on it and most shops will have blueprints so you have something to follow. Don't know what industries are in your area but apply at fabrication shops to see if they will sign you up as apprentice. Your teacher could be a big help in finding a shop and giving you a reference. It's usually a lot easier to get in a union as a first year too. Check if there's a boilermakers, pipe fitters or steel workers union hall in your area and talk to them about how to get started.

(quoted from post at 18:21:58 04/29/11) Thanks Puddles!! I really appreciate that,
especially coming from a great weldor like you!!

Click to expand...

Lanse those are not my welds, I stole them from WW, first one is Dan's, the other two are ZT Fab's.
I'm not sure I buy into this technique, I know it's real popular with the off road 4 x 4 crowd. I don't think it would have passed anywhere I worked as a structural welder. I'd like to hear the opinion of a CWI on the subject!


Lanse thank you! But in time when your horizon is broadened, you'll look back and say, “Oh man was I ever wrong, Ol Puddles was only two steps above a hack”. Trust me, you'll see! :wink:

Lance We all tend to over build. We once had a trailer built like the one you are working on only it was built from an old Dodge truck. My uncle built it. he used it 15 years gave it to Dad He used it another 10 years. He passed it on to me and I junked it after another 10 years. And it wasn't built that good. You might think of replacing the Rear end with a stright axle as I remember that thing pulled hard untill I removed the Pinnion Gear And drove a wooden plug in the hole.

The economy is so bad is why there are no jobs. With welds like that,and work to do,somebody will surely hire you,that is if they need help.
Your welds are fine,keep doing them like you are doing.It doesnt hurt to try different ways of welding,but if making little circles works for you,thats fine.Circles,weave or just hold it still all work as long as you know what you are doing.Practice,practice,practice.
Now after saying that,by looking at your weld you age actually going a tad slow.I cant see how you are holding the gun but what you want to do is swing your loop of your circle down lower and hang just a little and back up and around.That way your weld is not humped up in the middle like it is and its more filled in at the bottom.What you are looking for is a flatter weld by filling the bottom a little more and travelling fast on the top.
Nothing wrong with your weld,just see if the way I told you makes a better looking weld for you.Since you can weld,making it look better might mean the difference in getting hired or not.If the way I told you doesnt work go back like you were doing.

Lance, it sounds like you and mother are getting along better. Still around the Dayton area or around the Toledo Area? Either way if you have a good welder and someplace to be able to do the work if people learn about you, you will be supprised at how much welding repair the farmers will bring you.