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Discussion Forum

12ga Home Protection

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T_Bone

10-31-2009 19:24:40




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Hi All,

I thinking about getting a couple 12ga pumps for home protection with a barrel cut off just beyond legal. I can cut my own barrel. I'm wanting several rounds in the magazine, plug removed or ?
Is cutting off the stock after the pistol grip still allowed?

Yes I have shot a shotgun from the hip so I know what too expect.

What's the best bang for the buck?

I'm wanting reliability first.

T_Bone

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T_Bone

11-03-2009 05:18:41




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 Re: Thanks All!!! in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
Hi Dave,

Ya I wish I had bought them sooner. About $250 delivered now.

What's your thoughts on ammo. Factory or reloads?
Gees I can reload slugs and OO for just about zero as I have lead and powder, primers and wads. All I would need too buy is the molds.
I'll probably do reloads for practice and factory for duty. My son keeps pounding my head too keep it all factory.

The mfg website recommends a 20" barrel for turkey hunting if'n you can believe that.

T_Bone

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davediehl@hotmail.com

11-03-2009 11:07:37




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 Re: Thanks All!!! in reply to T_Bone, 11-03-2009 05:18:41  
I'm not a fan of anything but factory new rounds. Not that there is not intelligent people who can do a fabulous job reloading, I simply don't want any guesswork. Our department has a strict "no reload" policy and my firearm manual says no reloaded ammo. The liability aspect is the other thing to keep in mind. I don't give the defense attorney anything to question. I don't make modifications, don't fire modified items, and don't want to be the one to explain why I did.

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36 coupe

11-03-2009 16:27:08




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 Re: Thanks All!!! in reply to davediehl@hotmail.com, 11-03-2009 11:07:37  
My factory round misfired on a dammed turkey last fall.Glad it wasnt a perp with a gun.I like a double barrel with number 4 shot.



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T_Bone

11-01-2009 16:49:23




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 Re: Thanks All!!! in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
I think after some serious thought, I'm going with the Mossberg 88, about $250 delivered.

What I didn't know was that you can order shotguns with the short barrels(18.5") and pistol grips from the factory, Mossberg 500 cruiser $350 delivered.

What I also found out is you can buy a super shorty pump about 16" overall, in AZ with a $5/yr permit. About $450 if I remember correct.

T_Bone



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davediehl@hotmail.com

11-03-2009 04:02:52




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 Re: Thanks All!!! in reply to T_Bone, 11-01-2009 16:49:23  
I probably should add that I paid 168 bucks for this one brand new 9 years ago. I added a sling just for something additional to grab on to if one would wind up in close combat with it.



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caterpillar guy

11-01-2009 15:50:49




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
If you need more than the regular six shots that come in a normal hunting version you better aim better. Now if you just buy a short barrel for the shot gun you already have it will be the cheapest deal going.I know that that option is possible at most gun shows barrels are available to be bought separate from the gun itself. Ive bought them separate.



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tg in VA

11-01-2009 10:03:46




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
Just get a Tarus "Judge". No stock or barrel to cut off, no stock or barrel to get hung up on a door frame or piece of furniture. 5 rounds of .410 (shot, 00 or slug, your choice). You can keep it in your bedside table or under the mattress where it's readily avaiable. Also .410 has the stopping power of a .45 but won't penetrate wall board to injure a family member in the next room.

Also, there is no legal question like there might be with a sawed off pump with a pistol grip if you have th eopportunity to actually take out an intruder.

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135 Fan

11-01-2009 11:46:16




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to tg in VA, 11-01-2009 10:03:46  
One of the guys that rides at my track just got a fancy new shot gun. I forget what kind but it had a folding stock so you could just shoot it from the hip, holding the trigger, if you wanted. I think it was a 12 gauge. It was really loud when it went off! Dave



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load bird shot first

11-01-2009 08:47:14




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
If you have other people in the house pleas load bird shot first (4 to 6). The bird shot will not penetrate walls very well but will definatly mess with your target. At close range there is very little difference in the lethality from bird shot and 00 buck shot. A single piece of 00 buck shot is roughly the diameter of a .38 round and will definatly penetrate dry wall and may harm someone you are trying to protect.

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Joe Pro

11-01-2009 07:01:38




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
One of the best deals out there is the Remington 870 model 20577. Its just a standard 870 with an 18.5" barrel, and a 2 shot mag extension. This is perfect for you needs.

As to how to measure a barrel, you need to close the action, and drop a dowel rod down the barrel until it hits the face of the bolt. That is how the feds measure it and that is the most accurate way.



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davediehl@hotmail.com

11-01-2009 07:00:00




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
third party image

I will stronly recommend that you buy and use something that is not modified! The problem you will get into is IF you are required to use it, there is some defence attorney that WILL have you on the stand asking what kind of man killer did you use. Then he will press the fact that its been modified and that you designed it to kill a person and that is its only function in life. Your credibility will be questioned. Thats why officers can not carry a modified weapon, triggers can not be worked. Its back to that CYA. Better to be safe than sued.

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ncBrad

11-06-2009 08:54:31




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to davediehl@hotmail.com, 11-01-2009 07:00:00  
Much better to be sued than dead.



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630crazy

11-02-2009 17:57:48




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to davediehl@hotmail.com, 11-01-2009 07:00:00  
Did not think about that either, thanks for sharing.



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T_Bone

11-01-2009 16:27:35




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to davediehl@hotmail.com, 11-01-2009 07:00:00  
Thanks for your comments Dave,

Ya, after some more thought, I'm thinking one looking like your above pic, is what I'll go with.

T_Bone



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bob15

11-01-2009 06:47:02




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
I picked up an Ithaca 37 Deerslayer for under $200 at a gun show. It has the 20" barrel and bottom eject with the smoothest pump slide out there. Hold 4+1. Perfect for home protection.

bob



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johnski

11-01-2009 06:27:05




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
T-Bone, You had better check this out with some reliable sources. It's been 15 years since I lived in AZ. I seem to recall that the minimum barrel length in AZ is 20" where it's 18" almost everywhere else. HTH Jf



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Bendee

11-01-2009 05:08:40




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
All come to Australia and leave these big decisions behind..won't need them here.



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36 coupe

11-03-2009 16:30:47




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to Bendee, 11-01-2009 05:08:40  
BS you have BIG gun crime problems...



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ILLEFTY

11-01-2009 04:58:07




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
Also check to see what size shot is legal in your area. 00 buck is not legal in many areas, but is not a problem to buy. Need to stay legal. Alot less problems if you have to use the 12GA on some one.



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gun guru

11-01-2009 04:19:04




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
18 inches is the minimum allowable length. the 18 inches is measured from the end of the receiver out to the end of the barrel. search on the net for your state requirements, some states vary a little. Check on the pistol grip too that may not be legal. Mossberg mav. 88 is the a good deal at about $250 or so, the tried and true Remington 870 pump 12 gauge has many different versions of this model, my favorite is the 870 marine magnum, short barrel, holds 8 shells in the tube I think + chamber. I used to own a Mossberg 88 and sold it to a buddy of mine, (He want it for home defense actually) The Mossberg 88 should come with a slug barrel on it already. My Rem 870 is really a turkey/bird gun 28 inch barrel. I bought my 870 for $300 + tax.

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Dave 2N

11-01-2009 04:09:43




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
No need to modify one; there are plenty of the "home defender" types made by all the manufacturers.

It"s goiong to come down to how much you want to spend. You"ll never go wrong with a Mossberg and if you chose to go to a less expensive model, New England Firearms makes a nice pump gun. My brother-in-law just got one and I was impressed with what he got for the money. (I"m not talking about the NEF single shots--I"m talking about their pump guns.)

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Pale Rider

10-31-2009 21:47:51




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
I'm surprised no one else has mentioned it--if you cut those barrels make DARN sure you have at least 18 inches of barrel BEYOND whatever maximum shell the gun will chamber, be it 2 3/4 or 3 inch. Better leave yourself an extra 1/4 inch.
Don't make the critical mistake of measuring from the back of the barrel/chamber. It's a felony otherwise and God forbid that it should come to light AFTER you have had to use it and the police hold it during their investigation as they surely will.

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Davis SC

10-31-2009 23:16:21




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to Pale Rider, 10-31-2009 21:47:51  
I was always under the impression that the 18 inches was from the end of the barrel, to the face of the bolt.



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bkpigs

10-31-2009 20:56:00




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
Just don't wound the sucker. Make sure he is dead or you will be supportin a dead beat and then some for the rest of your life.



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Buzzman72

10-31-2009 20:54:59




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
Friends of mine recommend Maverick pump guns, manufactured by Mossberg. Here's a 6-shot with 18-1/2" barrel, and an 8-shot with a 20" barrel. Put a pistol grip on either one, and you're good to go.



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T_Bone

11-01-2009 16:31:00




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to Buzzman72, 10-31-2009 20:54:59  
Thanks Buzzman for the link.

It looks like that's what I'm going too go with for what I need.

T_Bone



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old

10-31-2009 20:52:57




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
Last time I checked the law says has to be 18 inches of long for the barrel and over all length has to be 26 inches or more. Only reason I know this is I had some one who owned me some money and he gave me a shot gun for what he owned me. It was sawed off and the stock cut so I call to find out if it was in fact legal or not and those number are what I was told was legal. Now my self I would not want a 12 gauge for the home. Maybe a 20 or so but a 12 is just to much. Shoot my 44mag with a shot shell in it will pretty much take care of any body in the way

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buickanddeere

10-31-2009 20:48:37




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
You want something that looks like Uncle Freds duck hunting gun. If you ever end up infront of a jury just because you defended yourself. You don't want some gun hating prick of a prosecutor pointing out your assault shotgun. To a jury full of people who have been watching Oprah. With a pistol grip, folding stock, laser sights etc.



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T_Bone

10-31-2009 22:05:56




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to buickanddeere, 10-31-2009 20:48:37  
How true that is B&D.

We had a case in the AZ mountains a few years back that made 60minutes or Dateline. I can't remember the real names so I'll use Bob and Harry.

Bob was tent camping with his two dogs.

Harry was out hiking and carrying a 10mm semi-auto with hollow points.

Harry was on a trail that lead upto Bob's camp. As Harry approached Bob's camp he spooked the dogs which came running at Harry, so Harry pulled his 10mm and fired a warning shot into the ground. That stopped the dogs about 50ft away from Harry but the dogs continued too bark.

Bob came running down the trail with a stick in his hand toward Harry screaming "I'm going too kill you".

Harry then turns and triple taps Bob in the chest.

Harry then try's to make Bob comfortable by placing his coat under Bob's head and covers Bob with a thermal blanket out of his back pack.

Harry then goes on too the road and walks trying to find someone for help. A guy stops and lets Harry use his cell phone. Harry then returns back too Bob and found that Bob had died.

They let Harry go for 3mths and the officials called it self defense. Harry was well known in the community. Another well known man(rich is the way I read it) in the community started yelling that there was something wrong in Denmark, so they arrested Harry for trial after the local news paper carried the story.

During the trial, it was plain too see that Harry hated dogs in general. Bob had taken the dogs from a local humane society for a week-end of exercise. It was also apparent Harry was a general PITA guy.

It was also pointed out that Harry had shot Bob in the chest twice then once after Bob had grabbed his chest as there was a bullet that went thru Bob's hand into his chest, the 3rd shot.

Harry is convicted by 12 for 25yrs? CRS

The jury instructions by the judge clearly stated that the only consideration is whether Harry acted in self defense or not and that the jury should NOT consider anything else. "Do you all understand that?" Jurors all stated yes.

After the trial, they polled some jurors.

They considered that Harry was carrying a 10mm weapon where as the local police only carry 9mm weapons.

They considered that Harry was using hollow points where the local police do not.

They didn't like Harry's curt attitude.

They didn't like that it took Harry 1/2hr too find someone then return to Bob, when it only took the police 15min to walk the same distance.

AZ has a right too protect law, you, your neighbor or your property. Were also allowed to open carry in a holster without permits.

That's what stood out too me after watching the TV show.

T_Bone

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Lefty

10-31-2009 20:43:48




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
One of the nicest setups I seen was a base grade Rem 870/12ga w/18" police barrel,extended magazine(7),fold over the top skeleton stock and both rear&front(slide)pistol grips.Parkerized finish.Sweet,powerful package.

Note:Sawing some barrels to minimum legal length,results in total loss of shot pattern(or so I'm told).Mfg police/military bbl maintains slug rifleing and modicum of choke. ??



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andy in IL

10-31-2009 20:38:59




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
Get you a mossburg model 590 riot shotgun. It comes factory with the long magazine. I have one and it will hold 9 2 3/4 shells counting one in the chamber. Also when I bought it it came with a pistol grip so it short. In my younger days I shot it like a pistol before, you wouldn't want to shoot all 9 that way!! Best to buy one factory short than make one so you want have to deal with it later unless it the 3 S's(shoot,shovel,shut-up)

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ScottyHOMEy

10-31-2009 20:37:14




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
For the reasons Mel mentioned, it might not be advisable to have a modified weapon. Our house isn't terribly large and I have the target version of a sidearm familiar to older veterans in the nightstand. It's the first thing that gets put away when children come to visit. And, as much tighter that it is than the military issue, the sound of chambering that first round is my first line of defense. If an intruder is still around after hearing that, then we're ready.

I'll always remember a documentary I saw some years ago, about women taking up arms for home and personal defense. The interviewed the owner of a large shop down south, maybe Florida. He alowed as when women or anybody obviously green came in looking for a home defense weapon, he had a room full of rattletrap 12-gauge pumps. He wouldn't sell them any shells. He'd sell them the gun for a nominal price and show them how to rack it, with the promise that any intruder that heard that sound would not linger. Don't know how that worked out for them.

The only time I've had a shotgun ready for home defense was an oddball and thankfully short-term instance when the bears in the neighborhood went on a tear of two or three weeks breaking into houses and cars, and I put the rifled barrel on and was loaded with 1-oz sabots. I don't expect I'm tellin' you anything, but in your case, anything but a slug or sabot will do. The size shot will only make a difference in how long he might have to ponder the error of his ways before his expiration. The other significant factor in his odds of surviving is whether you decide to make a pot of coffee and have the wife get some donuts going in the skillet before summoning the authorities.

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Mel in SW Iowa

10-31-2009 20:06:59




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 Re: 12ga Home Protection in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2009 19:24:40  
A 12 or 20 gauge is a powerful weapon inside of
30 yards with any shot load, 50-100yds with slugs. Mossberg and Remington pumps have been available in 18" and 20" barrels on special at Bass Pro and Cabelas in the past for around $300-350. Be sure you are familiar with your state's laws regarding the use of deadly force in home protection. There is a good book "In the Gravest
Extreme" that covers unexpected surprises that can occur after the use of deadly force. For instance, it might be easier for an attorney to defend you in court if its necessary if you purchase the length you want rather than cutting it yourself. I have used after market extended magazines that add 2 or 3 rounds of capacity to the usual 6 in Remington 1100's and 870's in IPSC/UPSA matches
without a malfunction, but I am still a little skeptical of them.
Good choice. Good Luck

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