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Restoration & Repair Tips Board

Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick

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ramo77

09-11-2019 19:18:50




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I'm assuming my '53 Jubilee has solid lifters. As per the shop manual, I set each valve at .015 with engine hot, each cylinder at TDC. I still get a heavy valve tick but only when the engine is not completely warmed up and only when running between 400 - 1100 RPM. I pulled each spark plug wire off w/engine running and tick does not stop or lesson w/any one wire. Engine does not tick when completely hot, like after being driven for 15 mins. So my question is, do I leave well enough alone, or pull the valve cover and check what's going on when the engine is cold - i.e. put a feeler gauge at each tappet to find the offender. If I reset when cold (or to be quiet), then would I be too tight when hot? Do all Ford NAA's have a cold valve tick?

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rvirgil_KS

09-14-2019 08:09:04




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to ramo77, 09-11-2019 19:18:50  
Similar to what Ad. Case Guy said. I had a 51 8N Ford with ticking noise under load. Turned out to be the manifold gasket eaten out at lower corner of rear cylinder exhaust port

New manifold gasket cured the problem



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Earl-IL

09-13-2019 13:10:58




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to ramo77, 09-11-2019 19:18:50  
Many times the rocker gets worn on the valve end and you can't set with a feeler gage. Replace rocker or take to machine shop that has the correct equipment and CAN REGRIND IT. Or use a dial indicator to set it.



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ramo77

09-13-2019 19:38:57




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to Earl-IL, 09-13-2019 13:10:58  
Ah, that makes sense too, because of the concave shape. I'll have to take a really close look and see what's going on. I'm hoping this weekend. I appreciate the professional insight! Thanks.



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grizz02

09-12-2019 18:58:40




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to ramo77, 09-11-2019 19:18:50  
broken valve spring ?



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ramo77

09-12-2019 19:12:28




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to grizz02, 09-12-2019 18:58:40  
They seemed okay when I checked last time, but I will double check once I get in there again. Thanks for the input.



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papaw8

09-12-2019 16:39:11




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to ramo77, 09-11-2019 19:18:50  
Usually can touch rocker arm running and can feel any that are loose. A valve could be sticking when cold but would likely have a miss.I agree with case guy might be exhaust leak.



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ramo77

09-12-2019 18:19:37




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to papaw8, 09-12-2019 16:39:11  
The funny thing is, it's only between say 400 - 1100 RPM when not "really hot" like after driving. It's hard to tell if it's a stuck valve or maybe just slightly stuck. It may have a miss, but I think it sounds "normal". Definitely not a miss like if you pulled a spark plug wire. When I set the tappets I was very careful and did each cylinder at TDC, checked by pulling spark plugs and seeing piston top. .015 HOT. I'm thinking stuck valve or something going on in the rocker train as suggested by other comments. I really appreciate everybody's thoughts and input on this.

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papaw8

09-13-2019 08:24:00




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to ramo77, 09-12-2019 18:19:37  
When you say tdc it would have to be tdc after the compression stroke. Tdc after exhaust stroke both valves would be on overlap and partly open. Turn engine until valve to be set is fully open then turn engine exactly one full round. Valve will be on base circle of cam.



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ramo77

09-13-2019 08:31:45




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to papaw8, 09-13-2019 08:24:00  
I followed the distributor, and believed I was just after the compression stroke, but I will definitely double check. I'm going to jump into it this weekend hopefully. I like your idea of one full turn after fully open, I may just redo them all again, or at least check gaps etc. Never thought of that way of doing it...cool! Thanks!



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Adirondack case guy

09-12-2019 11:18:04




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to ramo77, 09-11-2019 19:18:50  
It may not be a valve tick. It could be a small exhaust leak. Bad head to manifold gasket on one cylinder or a crack in exhaust manifold. This will sound much like a loose tapit. Just another option for you to consider---------------Loren



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ramo77

09-12-2019 18:06:51




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to Adirondack case guy, 09-12-2019 11:18:04  
Wouldn't it lesson if I pulled the spark plug wire from the cylinder with the bad exhaust gasket seal? Seems like a pretty metallic click sound. Maybe I'll make a recording and post it. I was wondering myself if it was the same thing with the exhaust gasket. Perhaps this weekend I can pull the valve cover and see if can determine what's going on. Thanks for the input here!



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dr sportster

09-12-2019 08:58:53




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to ramo77, 09-11-2019 19:18:50  
Sure recheck valve clearance. It could be the contact surface of the rocker arm where it touches the end of the valve stem. A Cratex rubberized grinding wheel will re-smooth them.



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ramo77

09-12-2019 17:58:18




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to dr sportster, 09-12-2019 08:58:53  
Thanks for that advice, I'll take a closer look when I have time to pull it apart again.



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ramo77

09-12-2019 10:17:04




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to dr sportster, 09-12-2019 08:58:53  
Thanks, I'm thinking I need to take another "closer" look to see what's really going on. It runs great, but drives me crazy knowing that "something" is a bit off or not quite right.



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lastcowboy32

09-12-2019 06:10:57




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to ramo77, 09-11-2019 19:18:50  
Also, just subjectively... the wrist pin issue sounded more like an octane "knock" than a valve "tick"



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lastcowboy32

09-12-2019 06:08:57




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to ramo77, 09-11-2019 19:18:50  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

This actually sounds (no pun intended) very similar to an issue that I had a long time ago with, of all things, a Plymouth Colt car.

In that car, it was determined to be a loose wrist pin on a piston.

You couldn't really isolate it by pulling plug wires, and it did sort of come and go, and it had a favorite range of resonant RPMs where it would happen.

I think that you can differentiate between a valve tick and this loose wrist pin issue as follows...

Does it get louder as you rev the motor?

A valve tick will have constant magnitude (how loud it is), regardless of RPMs as you rev up and down. The ticking will just speed up or slow down to match engine speed.

This wrist pin issue would have varying loudness...it would be sort of soft, when the engine was at constant RPM... then, if you rev quickly...it would get loud momentarily, as the RPMs changed and get softer as the RPMs settled as the new higher level.

You would also get a bump in loudness if you de-revved the engine down to a lower RPM.

Removing spark plug wires wouldn't have any effect on it... because it has to do with the pin knocking worse, as the piston speed changes during revving/de-revving... which can happen no matter how many cylinders are active.

I was advised to just drive it... I got about two more years (with a 60 mile round trip commute to work) out of it.

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ramo77

09-12-2019 10:13:30




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to lastcowboy32, 09-12-2019 06:08:57  
Interesting thought, but the tick seems to stay the same regardless of load or increase / decrease in RPM



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Steve@Advance

09-12-2019 05:17:59




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to ramo77, 09-11-2019 19:18:50  
I would run the valve s again.

Look everything over, check the ends of the rockers and adjuster screws for wear, check the pushrod ends, check for bent pushrods, check for excessively worn rocker bushings.

Then pull the plugs, hand turn the engine through while adjusting each valve. Find the loosest point, set it there.

Start it up with the cover off. If the noise is still there, quickly locate it running before it warms up. Look those components over carefully. If it still has a noisy lifter, could be a failing cam lobe.

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ramo77

09-12-2019 19:17:53




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to Steve@Advance, 09-12-2019 05:17:59  
I like your input. I will do as you suggested next opportunity I get to work on it. I'm wondering if I have a "slightly stuck" valve spring or perhaps broken somewhere and I missed it. I will have to check each valve component out very carefully. I'll keep you posted, and thanks again for the input.



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Bob

09-11-2019 20:05:08




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to ramo77, 09-11-2019 19:18:50  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

"Do all Ford NAA's have a cold valve tick?"

No.

And it take a really "loose" valve adjustment (probably DOUBLE the specified gap) to make a "heavy valve tick" and the noise wouldn't go away with a few minutes of engine warmup, IMHO.

Aluminum pistons,however, expand with engine heat and the fit in the bore can change dramatically.

DUNNO what your plans are with this, but if this is an occasionally used/lightly used tractor i wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

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ramo77

09-12-2019 03:59:55




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 Re: Can't Figure Out This Valve Tick in reply to Bob, 09-11-2019 20:05:08  
Thanks, I don't think it's a piston slap, unless all are doing it, because I couldn't isolate by pulling spark plug wires. I may leave it for now, and someday, if I find myself looking for something to do, I'll pull it apart again. The tractor is lightly used for occasional yard work etc.



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