After Electrolysis

Good Morning all,
First off I'm no painter but have started on a tractor restoration so I've got questions. Don't want to do something that'll make my paint fail. I'm still undecided about what paint I'll spray due to forced air respirators vs longevity of the color without fading.

I've got several small parts in an electrolysis tank so I wanna run my ideas by you experts.
When the parts come out of the tank I plan wash with soapy water then wire wheel down to shiny metal then heat to help remove any trapped moisture and spray with a rattle can of Rustoleum self etching primer so they don't flash rust. I've got a gallon of Oshpho I could dip the parts into before the etching primer. Or I could use the Oshpho and leave them until I'm ready to spray with Epoxy primer. I think I can just do the etching primer then when ready to epoxy I'd have to scuff with scotch brite. It'll probably be at least a couple days before I've got the compressor and water separators and all ready to spray epoxy which is why I'm asking about the self etching primer. I've read where self etching and epoxy primers don't play well together so I'm not sure about this idea. As I'm sure you all understand I've got parts everywhere and I just want to get moving towards a suitable process for priming.
Next question. I've started wire wheeling the cast and sprayed with Ospho to stop flash rust. I'm finding areas where I want to spray with oven cleaner and pressure wash again. Anything wrong with Ospho as I go along and when down to bare metal on the whole body pressure washing really good for the final time, wipe several times with a cleaner/degreaser then spray a light coating of Ospho and let dry for a day or so before applying Epoxy?
I try to research and find my own answers but the internet is full of contradictions and differing opinions and the amount of info can be overwhelming.
Thanks in advance.
mvphoto79872.jpg


mvphoto79877.jpg
 

I've used epoxy primer on bare and painted metal. Then use the filler primer over it with no problems. Also used urethane paint over it within the time limit.
 
Actually if you want the paint to last decades you need to take it all down to bare metal. When you paint over old paint you are depending on the old paint to last which it probably won't. When the old paint flakes off it will take the new paint with it. Epoxy primer
is about as good as it gets for preventing rust from returning. With any other primer you get a scratch down to bare metal and rust will creep out under the paint making a much larger area of rust. With epoxy you get a scratch to the metal and the rust will be
isolated to the scratch. If you plan on using epoxy primer don't use the etching primer. The etching primer is only good on bare metal and that's where you need to put the epoxy. If you need a sanding primer then get a filler primer and use it over the epoxy primer.
Epoxy primer doesn't sand well.

The rustoleum farm and implement paint is pretty good not to fade but automotive paint would do much longer. Personally I like the MBC acrylic enamel. You could base coat it and topcoat it with a urethane clear and the paint would last like the paint on a new car.
 
(quoted from post at 17:18:29 08/08/21) Actually if you want the paint to last decades you need to take it all down to bare metal. When you paint over old paint you are depending on the old paint to last which it probably won't. When the old paint flakes off it will take the new paint with it. Epoxy primer
is about as good as it gets for preventing rust from returning. With any other primer you get a scratch down to bare metal and rust will creep out under the paint making a much larger area of rust. With epoxy you get a scratch to the metal and the rust will be
isolated to the scratch. If you plan on using epoxy primer don't use the etching primer. The etching primer is only good on bare metal and that's where you need to put the epoxy. If you need a sanding primer then get a filler primer and use it over the epoxy primer.
Epoxy primer doesn't sand well.

The rustoleum farm and implement paint is pretty good not to fade but automotive paint would do much longer. Personally I like the MBC acrylic enamel. You could base coat it and topcoat it with a urethane clear and the paint would last like the paint on a new car.
Stephen Newell,
I am taking everything down to bare metal. You answered exactly what I had read and forgot about why to use epoxy and forget the etching primer. I'll look more closely at The rustoleum farm and implement paint and into the PPG MBC.
I appreciate you taking the time to help me out.
 
In 1989 I painted a Jeep with the MBC paint. It was a red metallic and except for damaged spots the paint is still in good condition.

The etching primer is better suited for new or steel with just a little rust. It's also better suited for something that doesn't take a lot of abuse like a car body. On a tractor you pretty much expect damage.
 


Since you are wanting to avoid having your paint fail you must be wanting to avoid having rust lift it off. Understand that after you have removed all the rust by whatever method you choose, there is really still a lot of rust there. A friend who is a pro auto-body guy once cleaned, prepped, and painted the panels to a tractor for me. Two years later there was rust bubbling up under the paint. Prep on rusty old tractors is different from late model cars. You have to use one of the many phosphoric acid based rust converters if you want to deter future rust. Wait until you have it ready to paint before you decide what paint to use. It makes little sense to spend a lot of time prepping and then put cheap five year paint on it. If you end up putting a lot of time into it you should get real paint.
 
Thanks Showcrop. I've been spraying the cast with Oshpho as I get it down to bare metal to prevent flash rust. It's also one of the rust converters that you suggest. One thing is for sure, I'm putting in a lot of work.

This post was edited by Flyguy30263 on 08/09/2021 at 09:06 am.
 
Flyguy...I have done 4 Ford tractors, first one being a 52 8n over 10 years ago. I have tried numerous different ways of cleaning,
derusting, etc. I have tried electrolysis for awhile and if you use inexpensive electrodes it gets dirty, and you wind up cleaning the
electrodes a lot. It is also totally dependent on distance and line of sight from electrodes to target. I settled on using carbon /
graphite rod electrodes and they work great as they are not dirty at all. They are more expensive then using found electrodes but they
are clean and last quite a while as they are pure. I still occasionally use electrolysis.
I also use the rust remover solutions and settled on Evap-O-Rust. It is a little pricey but works well.
Using either of the above for cleaning rust if you leave your target in too long you will have removed the rust but you will start to form
a black coating on your target. When I remove my target from either of the above methods I wash and scrub with hot water and then use a
heat gun to dry. I try and paint those items in a timely fashion.
On the tractor cast iron and other parts I first tried to wire wheel everything, but to me wire wheeling leaves like a burnished / polished
finish, so I either use a 4 1/2 grinder / drill / die grinder with various discs and pads etc instead of the wire wheel.
I use a epoxy primer. The manufacturer has a window of 7 days for top coating which usually works out well. I use a Sherwin Williams 2k
paint, using a fresh air supply breather.
The epoxy primer manufacture does caution on the use of Ospho and has special instruction for cleaning before applying their primer, if you
have used Ospho. When I am ready to paint I usually go over everything with a maroon pad and then finally wipe downs before painting. As
long as you removed the nasty rust, I don't get too worried about surface rust as the epoxy is great at sealing it off.
This is the way I have found works for me and has worked well over the years, I have not have had any issues. There are many differing
opinions on these subjects and I just wanted to inform as to what my experiences have been
Good luck on your project !
 
(quoted from post at 11:07:05 08/13/21) Flyguy...I have done 4 Ford tractors, first one being a 52 8n over 10 years ago. I have tried numerous different ways of cleaning,
derusting, etc. I have tried electrolysis for awhile and if you use inexpensive electrodes it gets dirty, and you wind up cleaning the
electrodes a lot. It is also totally dependent on distance and line of sight from electrodes to target. I settled on using carbon /
graphite rod electrodes and they work great as they are not dirty at all. They are more expensive then using found electrodes but they
are clean and last quite a while as they are pure. I still occasionally use electrolysis.
I also use the rust remover solutions and settled on Evap-O-Rust. It is a little pricey but works well.
Using either of the above for cleaning rust if you leave your target in too long you will have removed the rust but you will start to form
a black coating on your target. When I remove my target from either of the above methods I wash and scrub with hot water and then use a
heat gun to dry. I try and paint those items in a timely fashion.
On the tractor cast iron and other parts I first tried to wire wheel everything, but to me wire wheeling leaves like a burnished / polished
finish, so I either use a 4 1/2 grinder / drill / die grinder with various discs and pads etc instead of the wire wheel.
I use a epoxy primer. The manufacturer has a window of 7 days for top coating which usually works out well. I use a Sherwin Williams 2k
paint, using a fresh air supply breather.
The epoxy primer manufacture does caution on the use of Ospho and has special instruction for cleaning before applying their primer, if you
have used Ospho. When I am ready to paint I usually go over everything with a maroon pad and then finally wipe downs before painting. As
long as you removed the nasty rust, I don't get too worried about surface rust as the epoxy is great at sealing it off.
This is the way I have found works for me and has worked well over the years, I have not have had any issues. There are many differing
opinions on these subjects and I just wanted to inform as to what my experiences have been
Good luck on your project !
Alan, All very good information there. I'm doing pretty much the same as your process with the exception of carbon /
graphite rods. I haven't looked into the directions for removing Ospho before priming so thanks for the heads up on that. thank you for taking the time to reply

This post was edited by Flyguy30263 on 08/13/2021 at 11:54 am.
 
Flyguy..this is the epoxy I have used for years.. works well for me. I particularly like the 7 day topcoat window. If you take a
look at the data sheet pdf it will explain a few things about Ospho and other things like acid etching etc...again this is my
experiences with this product.. I do not have anything to gain by mentioning this product and your milage may vary...
https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/epoxy-primer
Alan
 
(quoted from post at 18:03:35 08/13/21) Flyguy..this is the epoxy I have used for years.. works well for me. I particularly like the 7 day topcoat window. If you take a
look at the data sheet pdf it will explain a few things about Ospho and other things like acid etching etc...again this is my
experiences with this product.. I do not have anything to gain by mentioning this product and your milage may vary...
https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/epoxy-primer
Alan
Alan,
What I'm doing is spraying Ospho on the cast as I remove the paint to keep it from rusting. If I understand correctly it can stay on there until I'm ready to prime but I'd have to rewet with Ospho and then wash and dry really well before spraying the primer. Seems easy enough and having a 7 day window to paint is perfect for a novice like me. Bonus is the company is only 2 hours from me. I contacted a family friend who's a painter and I'm going to meet with him tomorrow. It could end up that he paints my tractor but I'd rather paint myself with him providing help as needed. I feel like this all coming together. Again I really appreciate the help.
 
After Im satisfied with the electrolysis.

I have sprayed wd40 on parts after applying wire brush , cold water rinse and drying . Will give the part a black oxide surface .
 
(reply to post at 10:20:48 08/08/21)
I use electrolysis (immersion in washing soda solution and electric DC current) and my secret ingredient in addition to PhUP is plumbing lye like red devil. Lye remove stubborn paint and oil/grease with no impact on the metal. Pressure washing removes almost all residual paint that still on the part. Before it dries it gets phospo, preferable a dunk. Passivation with phosphoric acid is a 70s-90s automotive manufacturing thing that they did after flushing out the cigarette buts and gloves from the car body. I was there. The trucks took a 40 second dip in it. then off to the toasty paint shop. Now the paints are water based and many of these processes have been made unnecessary in a plant but still can be useful for a guy at home. This takes it all the way down to bare metal. Then sand, prime, sand, prime, sand, prime, sand, tack cloth, paint, light rub with scotch brite to de-nib & degloss, tack cloth, final paint. Don't waste time sanding rust and old paint, chemical is much faster and complete but it has to be steel and no latches or chrome attached, NO ALUMINUM.
 
I would like to contact you if possible. I have Jubilee in a similar condition as yours. Been on it 10 years. Engine rebuilt and on stand. My email af7za@n7ei dot org.
 
(quoted from post at 15:36:13 12/19/21) I would like to contact you if possible. I have Jubilee in a similar condition as yours. Been on it 10 years. Engine rebuilt and on stand. My email af7za@n7ei dot org.

TwoOaks
I tried to email you but kept getting an error message.
You can email me at. [email protected]
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top