1650 Oliver - hyd cylinder issues

Got a 2 way hydraulic cylinder. New fittings and hoses.
[b:1259b7debe]Problem; Cylinder will not work with rpms of 1000 and more. Shaft will not move out at all. Just like the cylinder locks up.[/b:1259b7debe]
Works great with rpms of 750 or less - shaft moves out/extends and in/retracts smooth as glass.
Why?

This is the second hydraulic cylinder. The first one wouldn't work - shaft wouldn't move out-extend. Dealer exchanged.

Got plenty of hydraulic pressure. I can lower the end loader and tilt the bucket to lift front end of tractor clear off the ground.

Pioneer couplers? You've got a bad tip.

(quoted from post at 14:55:49 04/25/23) Pioneer couplers? You've got a bad tip.

Click to expand...

??? Explain. Both tips are brand new. I switched hoses around, top to bottom and bottom to top and still the same thing.

Edit: Better to ask, what to look for?

Pulled top hose and compared tips. They look the same. I have a new that I also compared to the one being used and the new tips on the new hoses. Again, look the same.

This post was edited by sonnythomas on 04/25/2023 at 05:13 pm.

Was it originally set up for a one way cylinder?

(quoted from post at 16:32:05 04/25/23)

Was it originally set up for a one way cylinder?

Click to expand...

No. Oliver is all two way cylinder tractor. By another it can be set up for a one-way (gravity drop), but you lose the use of the 3pt hitch - mucho process to boot.

I have (I guess) a Farm Hand end loader. All 4 cylinders are two-way.




This post was edited by sonnythomas on 04/25/2023 at 05:08 pm.

I know you've posted about issues with this tractor before. Did you get an operators manual for it? If you have
one, read the part about the restrictor screw on that remote and adjust it accordingly.

(quoted from post at 18:54:10 04/25/23) I know you've posted about issues with this tractor before. Did you get an operators manual for it? If you have
one, read the part about the restrictor screw on that remote and adjust it accordingly.

Click to expand...

I have the manual. Bought it from here. I'll read up on it.

(quoted from post at 18:54:10 04/25/23) I know you've posted about issues with this tractor before. Did you get an operators manual for it? If you have
one, read the part about the restrictor screw on that remote and adjust it accordingly.

Click to expand...

Read over both Operator's Manual and Operations. Unless I missed it, everything is for Hydra-Lectric. Hydra-Lectric is disconnected altogether. No fuse in dash, wires cut and ends broken.

Remote? Explain please.

Yes, I'm aware. I don't have my factory manual in front of me but I'm fairly certain it's in there, hydra-lectric notwithstanding. You don't know how the tractor was used in the past, so I agree with rrlund, you have to check the restrictor valve.

If it were me, I'd use the power beyond and put in a valve for the loader.

(quoted from post at 22:02:43 04/25/23)
Yes, I'm aware. I don't have my factory manual in front of me but I'm fairly certain it's in there, hydra-lectric notwithstanding. You don't know how the tractor was used in the past, so I agree with rrlund, you have to check the restrictor valve.

If it were me, I'd use the power beyond and put in a valve for the loader.

Click to expand...

Well, I've used the tractor for right a year. Used it for a bulldozer, knocking down dead trees and much more. No issues with hydraulics as far as the end loader - all kinds of hydraulic power.
What I have is a old Brillion stock chopper (pre brush hog). At present I can't use a one-way hydraulic cylinder - so I can't raise it, so not the best thing for going over thicker saplings and heavy brush. By all it was suggested I go with two-way cylinder - like already using.

What I did was put bucket in a neutral position and disconnected the hoses to it. It will not move. Used the two couplings for the bucket for the acquired two-way cylinder. The first one I had probably worked like this second one only I didn't use low rpms. I don't know why I used lower rpms other than frustrated and slowed and fiddled with the lever and saw they shaft move. So I tried it. Shaft moved all the way out and all the way back in just like it should.
Again, at 750 rpms or less and the cylinder works smooth as glass.

Having to adjust whatever for the cylinder to use on the Brillion and then readjust to use the bucket ain't going to get it.

What pictures exist don't help. I'm not seeing what I have or what to adjust.

This post was edited by sonnythomas on 04/26/2023 at 02:24 am.

I'm having trouble following your thread. Are you trying to use a one-way cylinder on your remotes? The open the bleed screw three turns and
lock it with the sealing nut. The bleed screw should be closed for double-acting.


The restrictor valve (the long shiny nut) is for slowing the implement drop speed. My old seal nuts leaked to I made these up. Then open the bypass valve, the bolt and sealing locknut down by the platform. This will disable the 3-point lift but it's necessary.


Finally, the single hose must be connected to the BASE port.

Sounds like the relief may be relieving too early. Or you could have dirt somewhere. Interlock plunger malfunction, etc.



Like I said, if you want your problems to go away, plumb in a power beyond with the valve with float. You'll be far happier in the long run. I can point you to a good video if you'd like.

(quoted from post at 05:24:49 04/26/23) I'm having trouble following your thread. Are you trying to use a one-way cylinder on your remotes? The open the bleed screw three turns and
lock it with the sealing nut. The bleed screw should be closed for double-acting.

The restrictor valve (the long shiny nut) is for slowing the implement drop speed. My old seal nuts leaked to I made these up. Then open the bypass valve, the bolt and sealing locknut down by the platform. This will disable the 3-point lift but it's necessary.

Finally, the single hose must be connected to the BASE port.

Click to expand...

No, I am not trying to use a one-way cylinder. I'm trying to use a good used cylinder (2nd one) to use on my old Brillion stock chopper. It works, but only if rpms are around 750 rpms. Any higher rpms and the cylinder won't extend or retract.
This tractor has only two-way cylinders, 4 of them - 2 for the bucket and 2 for the lift. Ender loader - see pic of tractor.

(quoted from post at 07:33:52 04/26/23)

Sounds like the relief may be relieving too early. Or you could have dirt somewhere. Interlock plunger malfunction, etc.



Like I said, if you want your problems to go away, plumb in a power beyond with the valve with float. You'll be far happier in the long run. I can point you to a good video if you'd like.

Click to expand...

Good used two-way cylinder. Pulled plugs and flushed just in case. New hoses and new fittings.
Someone in this Thread noted a bad maybe I had bad tips. Again, all new fittings. I compared the new ones to the ones on the present hoses for the bucket and they are the same (Pioneer), I have one new tip. It looks the same as the others.
How can you tell if one is bad?
What do I do, buy 2 more tips?

What gets me is I've got four two-way cylinders on this tractor that work fine at any rpm. See pic of tractor - end loader - power up and power down for the lift and power tilt either way for the bucket.

So just so we're all clear- the loader is working fine and uses the the remote?

The issue is the used (new to you) cylinder you're using off the other remote or same set of remotes?

I guess we need to know how exactly you're trying to operate.

(quoted from post at 09:19:36 04/26/23)

So just so we're all clear- the loader is working fine and uses the the remote?

The issue is the used (new to you) cylinder you're using off the other remote or same set of remotes?

I guess we need to know how exactly you're trying to operate.

Click to expand...

I've found the problem. Pioneer coupling and new Pioneer ends aren't compatible. They look the same, but are not the same. Something inside isn't the same - looks right inside but isn't.

Tested; Removed top end on hose for the bucket and removed original Pioneer end. Installed new Pioneer end. Hooked back up and the bucket would only move about 2 inches, if that and quit. Slow rpms and bucket will move.

So, looks like new Pioneer couplings are needed. May even need a need hose made up. Older hose has a huge aluminum nut that double end threaded bushing screws in and the bushing has long tapered tube that goes in the hose first.

This post was edited by sonnythomas on 04/26/2023 at 12:09 pm.

(quoted from post at 14:55:49 04/25/23) Pioneer couplers? You've got a bad tip.

Click to expand...

New Pioneer tips aren't compatible with older Pioneer coupling.

Look the same, go in the coupling the same.

One on left in the new and on right the old. The ball bearing on end is the same, grooves are same. All length the same except the newer has short shoulder - can't see it well, but there is dull ring on both that show they were in the coupling the same depth.
Different inside is the new one has flat piece with raised snap ring and older has steel triangle that threads in.

What I did was remove the older end and install the new end. Tried to work the bucket and the bucket stop after about a 1 to 2 inches of movement. Slow rpms and bucket would move and move real slow.

So looks like new couplings if the older Pioneer ends can't be found.







This post was edited by sonnythomas on 04/26/2023 at 12:03 pm.

The new one on the left looks like maybe an Allis Chalmers or Ford style male tip.

Ta-Da. LOL

(quoted from post at 13:35:14 04/26/23)
The new one on the left looks like maybe an Allis Chalmers or Ford style male tip.

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Original equipment - WD45. No ball bearing, just pointed tip.
M.E. bought the tractor new. Years later B.E. traded for it. I traded B.E. for it. The old WD45 mowed fields and 16 acre pasture for years - more than paid for itself. And then I messed up. I let it set out one winter - always stored it in the barn. Water somehow got in cylinders, froze, cracked the block. Tin can on the muffler didn't quite do the job. Still have it. Thought about dropping a 350 Chevy in it.



This post was edited by sonnythomas on 04/26/2023 at 07:47 pm.