Restoring Cletrac and it lost all compression

cjwilson78154 · Apr 23, 2023

Father in law is restoring a crawler Cletrac. I don't know the model, but it's early and very small. He had it running well. Sent it off to have it painted. When he got it back, it now won't start. No resistance on the crank handle. Obviously lost all compression.

Can hear the magneto clicking, so the crank and cam shafts are still turning. Not sure where to start. He said first he'll pull the inspection cover to see if valves are all stuck, or are moving.

I just thought I'd come here and ask since it's always been profitable to come here and ask when I get stumped...

scootergmc · Apr 23, 2023

Plugs are all tight? They weren't removed for paint, painting dummies installed, and then the originals just lightly threaded back in? After that I'd be looking at the valves as well.

cjwilson78154 · Apr 24, 2023

Thanks Scooter. I'll ask him. Plugs are probably tight. I saw the machine for a moment and plugs and wires looked all snugged up.

rustred · Apr 24, 2023

that just dont happen all at once. check the compression to see what u got. how long was this paint job ?

cjwilson78154 · Apr 24, 2023

(quoted from post at 15:10:03 04/24/23) that just dont happen all at once. check the compression to see what u got. how long was this paint job ?

ey Rustred. Agreed on it just can't happen all at once. From the time the video was taken until return from painter was less than 1 week. And my Father-in-law is someone I would consider a master at restorations. Done high end stuff that has taken awards at Pebble Beach even. This one is a just for fun project, but he's 92 now.

oliver90owner · Apr 25, 2023

Was the block painted while the side cover was removed? If so, the valves may have been painted, too?

Can t think of anything else that could have happened during that week.

cjwilson78154 · Apr 25, 2023

(quoted from post at 00:22:28 04/25/23)
Was the block painted while the side cover was removed? If so, the valves may have been painted, too?

Can t think of anything else that could have happened during that week.

adn't considered that. I'll ask him.

rrman61 · Apr 25, 2023

Not familiar with that engine-does it have a decompression lever that might be reinstalled incorrectly like not put back right on the splines?Or possibly a cam drive gear loose or missing a key on a key way?

cjwilson78154 · Apr 25, 2023

(quoted from post at 09:47:14 04/25/23) Not familiar with that engine-does it have a decompression lever that might be reinstalled incorrectly like not put back right on the splines? Or possibly a cam drive gear loose or missing a key on a key way?

hat was my first guess was a decompression lever. He said there wasn't. If it is a key, it sheared right when he shut it off. Again, I saw the video of it running as he shut it off to send to the painter.

rrman61 · Apr 25, 2023

Could the paint shop have dropped it but still I dont
see how that would hurt anything

DanielW · Apr 25, 2023

I'm sure he would have figured this out, but is there any chance the key is missing on the crank pulley hub? Maybe it was just bolted on
well enough to spin over with the crank for a bit, but now the pulley (presuming the starting crank turns the pulley) is just slipping
on the crankshaft?

I'm only thinking this because I remember my grandfather removing the crank pulley key on an old IH sitting in a fence-row. When my
brothers and I were young kids we used to love playing on that thing, pretending we were starting & driving it. He took out the key so
we could pretend to turn it over with the crank, and obviously it would spin effortlessly as the pulley was just slipping on the crank.

We didn't know any better - we saw the fan and belt turning and figured we were turning the whole engine over, and with luck we'd fire
it up and take it for a spin. Gosh I miss our ignorance in those days...

cjwilson78154 · Apr 25, 2023

(quoted from post at 12:52:48 04/25/23) I'm sure he would have figured this out, but is there any chance the key is missing on the crank pulley hub? Maybe it was just bolted on
well enough to spin over with the crank for a bit, but now the pulley (presuming the starting crank turns the pulley) is just slipping
on the crankshaft?

I'm only thinking this because I remember my grandfather removing the crank pulley key on an old IH sitting in a fence-row. When my
brothers and I were young kids we used to love playing on that thing, pretending we were starting & driving it. He took out the key so
we could pretend to turn it over with the crank, and obviously it would spin effortlessly as the pulley was just slipping on the crank.

We didn't know any better - we saw the fan and belt turning and figured we were turning the whole engine over, and with luck we'd fire
it up and take it for a spin. Gosh I miss our ignorance in those days...

ey DanielW, I don't think so, because the crank is spinning the camshaft, which is spinning the magneto. It least that's what he told me while he was spinning it. I was standing there with him this weekend. He asked me if I could hear the magneto clicking and I could.

cjwilson78154 · Apr 25, 2023

I just called him and he confirmed again there is no compression release on the machine. He said the plugs stayed in and were masked off for painting. Inspection cover stayed on for painting.

We are down to cam gear came loose or broke is probable cause. He confirmed it was running and he shut it off and it went straight to the painter. Back in a week. I'll see if I can get him to send a picture of it.

He did tell me it's a 1921 Model F if that helps.

rrman61 · Apr 25, 2023

Did anyone mess with the rack as in adjusting valve
lash?if over tightened the valves wont close all the
way then no compression or resistance when cranking

cjwilson78154 · Apr 25, 2023

Presumably not. Painter never pulled inspection cover off.

rustred · Apr 25, 2023

what is your compression results??? that is the place to start, then start asking questions till then no idea as need that info.and no there
is no compression release on an old gas engine.do things in order one thing at a time .check the compression. do u have a gauge to do that?

cjwilson78154 · Apr 26, 2023

(quoted from post at 20:05:15 04/25/23) what is your compression results??? that is the place to start, then start asking questions till then no idea as need that info.and no there
is no compression release on an old gas engine.do things in order one thing at a time .check the compression. do u have a gauge to do that?

achine is in a different state from me. I would bet he does have one, but I'll ask.

oliver90owner · Apr 26, 2023

An outside chance that it has a broken crank? Turns the timing end but no more - try turning the engine while a gear is selected, to dispel that one.

cjwilson78154 · Apr 26, 2023

(quoted from post at 14:19:58 04/25/23) Presumably not. Painter never pulled inspection cover off.

[video play=false:0a77ffb658]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/videos/mvvideo105037.mov[/video:0a77ffb658]

This post was edited by cjwilson78154 on 04/26/2023 at 11:03 am.

cjwilson78154 · Apr 26, 2023

I know it's hard to tell, but this is a quick clip of it running on March 31.

Restoring Cletrac and it lost all compression

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