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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
:

oliver / mm models = tractors?

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swindave

02-14-2021 05:51:30




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which tractors were a combination of oliver and mm?
and which tractors were made by mm, and sold as oliver?

were any olivers sold as mm?
this time of oliver, mm, white history is confusing for this old boy!
and was very many made, or sold?

so any help is appriciated ! thanks




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16-30 oilpull

02-18-2021 09:59:19




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to swindave, 02-14-2021 05:51:30  
Norm Swinford's book "The Proud Heritage of Agco Tractors" explains a lot of the cross over models.



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scootergmc

02-17-2021 07:38:58




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to swindave, 02-14-2021 05:51:30  
Thanks for that tidbit.



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KarlMN

02-16-2021 09:53:41




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to swindave, 02-14-2021 05:51:30  
Here are the three different versions of the G1355. They were sold as the MM G1355, the Oliver G1355 and the White 2270 in Canada. They all have the 585 MM engine with the Oliver rear end. Made for a nice driving tractor.



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swindave

02-16-2021 10:17:46




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to KarlMN, 02-16-2021 09:53:41  
thanks for the picture, so basically, just differant paint on them 3 ?



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KarlMN

02-16-2021 14:52:15




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to swindave, 02-16-2021 10:17:46  
Yes, just different paint and decals. They are all exactly the same tractor mechanically. This is just the G1355 model, but the same concept for the other tractors already mentioned such as the G1350 and 2155. The G955 was also made with a red counterpart which was the White 1870.



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scootergmc

02-16-2021 07:32:41




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to swindave, 02-14-2021 05:51:30  
Oh we know, White used all three to bleed cash for their other divisions.



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Jim Haugen

02-16-2021 19:29:18




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to scootergmc, 02-16-2021 07:32:41  
I was an employee at MM from '65 to '72 with "66 and "67 spent in the U S Army. I was just a low level tech just entering the work force. My job was at the Lake Street plant in the engine development lab. We did all the dyno work on MM tractor engines with a small amount of chassis work on ring gear and pinion testing. As someone said, White was doing everything to make our lives miserable. I recall a lot of conflict between Oliver and MM. Instead of sister companies, we were in competition with each other. When it came time to close the Minneapolis facility, the Oliver folks were not at all happy to see the MM product coming in. In case you are not aware of it, the facilities in Minneapolis were UAW closed shop facilities and Oliver was in a right-to-work law state. Though it was never stated, the union situation was a factor in the decision to close the plant and move to Iowa.

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rrlund

02-15-2021 06:32:43




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to swindave, 02-14-2021 05:51:30  
OK, here they are. The 2155 was a G1350.



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MMDan

02-15-2021 08:04:37




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to rrlund, 02-15-2021 06:32:43  
Wouldn't it have been FUN to be an MM or Oliver dealer during this time!! By trying to keep everyone happy all White Motor did was to succeed in satisfying no one.

I thought I had most of these models straight but had not heard of (or ever seen) a 2055 Oliver. Also in looking at the pictures above the 2155 Oliver seems to have the same grill as the MM G1355 and not the G1350 shown below. Interesting.

One model not listed is the G1355's little brother the G955. In my view these MM/Oliver hybrids were some of the best that they produced. Mating the MM engine and front axle to the Oliver over/under hydraul shift and closed center hydraulic system was a home run. I have G1000 Vista with a MM 3-speed and closed center hydraulics and a G955 and the Oliver system is much better, especially the 3-speed. Sorry Oliver, guys but you just can't beat a big cube, low RPM, LP fueled MM engine!

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rrlund

02-15-2021 09:38:53




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to MMDan, 02-15-2021 08:04:37  
The all Oliver 2050 and 2150 with the 478 Hercules engine came out in 68. It wasn't long after that, that White Motors merged MM, Oliver and Cockshutt in to one company. They put the MM execs in charge and they pulled the plug on the 2050 and 2150 pretty quick. I assume that's when the G1050 and G1350 were offered as the 2055 and 2155. I've got literature on the G1050, but not on the Oliver 2055. Were any ever produced? You couldn't prove by me, but they seem to have been offered anyway. You'd think there must have been a few painted green. They were right in the same horsepower range as the Oliver 1955. That might have been a deterrent to sales of them.

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ShepVA

02-24-2021 05:52:26




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to rrlund, 02-15-2021 09:38:53  
Yes the 2055 was produced. I have the numbers on them somewhere as I own a 2055 and take it to shows sometimes.
There were around 32 of the 2055' built as Olivers at the factory and there were 6 G-1050s that were sent out to dealers and did not sell and came back to the factory and were repainted and badged as 2055 Olivers with new serial plates and sent back out. I actually own one of the 6 that was a repaint from the factory.
They are pretty cool tractors but very confusing as to what happened when.

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ShepVA

02-24-2021 06:02:48




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to ShepVA, 02-24-2021 05:52:26  
Here is a link to an article they did on the tractor back in 2017
I think they got the production numbers wrong, but the rest of the article is good.



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swindave

02-15-2021 11:27:05




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to rrlund, 02-15-2021 09:38:53  
were more 2050/2150 tractors made then the 2055? 2155?
ive never heard of those two, 2055,2155, that is,
ive seen a 2150, and several 2255,
im not in mm country, i can only think of one mm in all the surrounding countys

its a g955 mm,

thank you



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rrlund

02-15-2021 12:13:06




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to swindave, 02-15-2021 11:27:05  
Had to have been a lot more 2050 and 2150s made,although there weren't a whole lot of those either due to such a short time that they were built. There were very few 1865s built either. The 1855 was basically the same size. One was 97 horse and the other was 98. Oliver probably wouldn't have lost as much market share if they'd have pulled the plug on the 1855 diesel and just sold the 1865, but, an MM guy was probably going to buy a MM and an Oliver guy was going to buy an Oliver, regardless of what color it was painted.

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swindave

02-15-2021 15:31:27




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to rrlund, 02-15-2021 12:13:06  
i havent thought about replacing the 1855 with the 1865,
here in south west indiana , the 1855/1955 dont have the best repuation,
so i think your right, it could have kept some market share



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rrlund

02-16-2021 06:38:53




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to swindave, 02-15-2021 15:31:27  
I was just re reading a little more of that article from that 2010 Oliver Heritage. It said that when White merged all three companies together in 1970, they were going to play to all of their strengths, including using Oliver drive trains and MM engines, so if things had been better in the farm economy at the time, given more time, they just might have transitioned in to the 1865, 2055 and 2155 and phased out the all Oliver versions in that horsepower range.

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swindave

02-16-2021 07:24:58




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to rrlund, 02-16-2021 06:38:53  
it looks like white had a lot of options at the time,
and i wonder if money problems were the reasons they chose the path they took,

or just doing what someone from white motors who didnt understand brand loyality in farm equipment?
and it would be hard to get them managment, oliver managment and the white board to get together all on the same page so to speak,

i guess we never will know

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rrlund

02-16-2021 08:29:32




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to swindave, 02-16-2021 07:24:58  
White Motors was in trouble and milked the farm equipment division as a cash cow by that time, simple as that and not a big secret.



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rrlund

02-15-2021 08:50:36




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to MMDan, 02-15-2021 08:04:37  
Ya, and let's not forget about the MM built Whites sold in Canada for a few years that replaced the Oliver built Cockshutts.



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rrlund

02-14-2021 08:43:40




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to swindave, 02-14-2021 05:51:30  
There were Mms sold as Olivers, Olivers sold as MMs, hybrids of the two, Fiats sold as either and as Whites, if you can name it, they were probably sold by both Oliver and Mm dealers in the early 70s.

I'll get it started I guess. Anybody else, join in. Oliver 1655 and 1755 were sold as the MM G750 and G850. The MM G950 was sold as the Oliver 1865, G1050 as Oliver 2055, G1355 as Oliver 1355, MM Plainsman 1400 as Oliver 2455, Plainsman 1600 as 2655.

Hybrids, the Moline G1355 that I already mentioned had an Oliver 2255 trans and rear end with a MM 585 engine, later the White 2-150 was the same tractor.

The Fiat Oliver 1265 was a MM G350, 1365 was a MM G450.

Then you can throw in the ones sold as Whites in Canada as a replacement for the Cockshutt brand. Sometimes it seems like the combinations are endless.

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rustyplow

02-14-2021 17:52:53




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to rrlund, 02-14-2021 08:43:40  
g550 was 1555. g940 was a 1855. I think.



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rrlund

02-15-2021 04:24:46




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to rustyplow, 02-14-2021 17:52:53  
Ya, there was an article in the Feb/March 2010 Oliver Heritage that covered most of them. It mentioned a G1050 and an Oliver 2155 too. It didn't say directly that they were the same tractor, but it was in the paragraph with the 1865 and 2055 MM builts, so I have to assume that was a thing too, although I've never seen or heard of one.



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swindave

02-14-2021 16:33:59




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to rrlund, 02-14-2021 08:43:40  
wow, thats a lot ! thank you!



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rustred

02-14-2021 09:14:20




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to rrlund, 02-14-2021 08:43:40  
dont forget massey in is some m.m.'s the G705 is the massey 97. the oily oliver 99 is the massey 98. i think my 2-85 white is the decendant of oliver 1755 or 1750??



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rrlund

02-14-2021 09:25:40




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to rustred, 02-14-2021 09:14:20  
2-85 is an 1855 with a Perkins. 2-105 is a 2-85 with a turbo.



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rustred

02-14-2021 13:56:28




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 Re: oliver / mm models = tractors? in reply to rrlund, 02-14-2021 09:25:40  
ok, better yet!



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