white 2-85, water pump.

I am wondering if it is possible to have the impeller spinning on the shaft as I have no heat circulation. bottom rad is cold. happened all at once temp came up. I removed the thermostats in it so I was able to feed cows before getting hot. just asking if any one has run into this. its not leaking and shaft is tight at fan. probably tear down tomorrow when warmer. and yes 1979 354 perkins.

While possible,I've never seen a happen. More likely a leaking head gasket. Take the pump belts off the pump and look for bubbles in the radiator after a cold start. Worth a look.

My 1950T did the same thing. Upper end warm lower end stone cold. Very little bubbling in the radiator just some slight foaming. Turned out to be a blown head gasket like Dieseltech says.

My Kenworth did that one time, had a heck of a time getting the rest of the way home.

no not a head gasket ,coolant is sitting still in rad and not moving with thermostats out. I am sure its water pump impeller loose. happened all of a sudden when I was using it.

What's the history of the tractor,it it something that you've had all along? When I bought my 2-105,it was early April. I planted oats and corn with it,but when I started haying,it started overheating. It finally got so hot about the third or fourth day that I cut with it that it blew the top tank right off the radiator,split it right down the soldered seam. I had to have the radiator recored on that one. It was completely plugged with lime. I wonder if yours is and finally hit critical mass.

I bought this tractor couple years ago. have front end loader on it. it has 3600 hrs. looks good and in decent shape. I have to keep rad covered to keep temp up in winter. few days ago using it to feed cows and noticed temp coming up. uncovered rad and temp. came up to the red. just idled it back to yard. rad is full and no bubbles. removed the thermostats and checked coolant. it just sitting there with no move ment. that is the crazy part coolant should be just a flowing around. this tells me I have a water pump problem . I can tell the water pum has been replaced with most likely a rebuilt one, so it might be faulty. like the impellar spinning on shaft.

I know this is a stretch,but how stout is the anti freeze and how cold is it where you are right now? Back before permanent anti freeze,guys used to drain tractors in the winter,then if they had to use them,they'd start them and put water in them,then drain them again as soon as they were done. They'd have to put cardboard in front of the radiator to keep the hot water from freezing in the radiator tubes when the fan pulled cold air through the core.

I've known a lot of folks who thought the impellers in the water pump were the problem when a tractor overheated,but with those cast iron impellers,I personally have never known it to be the case. The only time I ever saw it happen was with my cousin's cheap junk 6400 Deere. That one had plastic impellers in it and it trashed them. The chance that the shaft is spinning in them in yours,while I never say never,I'd say that as tight a press fit as those are,it's quite improbable. I guess the only way to know is to pull it off,but with a loader on it,that's not a two minute job. Trying to think how to test it. That loader is going to make anything a problem.

If you could pull the top and bottom rad hoses off and rig up a way to get the lower hose up at least as high as the pump,then pour water in with it running and see if it blows it out the top hose with some force?

One other thing makes me suspicious,you say it looks like the water pump has been replaced. That tells me that it's been a problem and that somebody replaced the pump and apparently it didn't help since you're still having the problem. Mine only had about 3700 hours on it when I had to have the radiator recored. I had to put a new rad on my 2-135 a few years ago too because that one got plugged and I ruined it trying to clean it out with acid.

(quoted from post at 10:22:06 02/13/20) I bought this tractor couple years ago. have front end loader on it. it has 3600 hrs. looks good and in decent shape. I have to keep rad covered to keep temp up in winter. few days ago using it to feed cows and noticed temp coming up. uncovered rad and temp. came up to the red. just idled it back to yard. rad is full and no bubbles. removed the thermostats and checked coolant. it just sitting there with no move ment. that is the crazy part coolant should be just a flowing around. this tells me I have a water pump problem . I can tell the water pum has been replaced with most likely a rebuilt one, so it might be faulty. like the impellar spinning on shaft.

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I think you are right.

I have used this tractor for 2 years without any heating problem even in the hot summer time seeding. guage would come up half way in green. it happened suddenly not slowly over time. so something going on preventing circulation. I remember years ago the neighbor had a heating problem on his 1030 case, turned out it was a baffle that came loose and was covering the rad cores. that is why I removed the thermostats so I could see if the coolant is moving. it just sits there doing nothing with tractor running.

Is your's overheating then? Just tossing out a thought....only time dad's overheated was when the screen in front of the radiator became plugged. That happened suddenly every so often. Also, had a pickup one time that got an air bubble in the line because it leaked slightly and i let the water level get too low. For the life of me i couldn't get that air bubble out until I flushed water through the radiator hose that fed the water pump. Like rrlund said, not a real fun quick job replacing that water pump.....

well yes it will overheat if I let it,.. but I stop before the gauge pegs in the red! I am a mechanic and have gone through the basic checking things. I just thought someone might have experienced this problem as I am a red tractor guy and only bought this thing as it looked decent and low hrs. been kicking my azz for being so stupid not to buy red instead of this white. as I said everything was good and it showed up instantly not over time. when u see no circulation in rad without thermostats it kind obvious that its a water pump problem. bottom of rad is cold top warm. engine hot! thought there might be some PERKINS experts out there to ask. just waiting for warmer weather to tear it down.

no heater, everything is cold except the engine as I posted.

My experience with a 354 water pump is that there are many versions of this pump. Some have slight variations. Since you said it looks like it was already replaced, I wonder if someone didn't order the right pump. In my case, I was told that I had to bring the old one in so they could get the exact numbers off of it. Problem was that it would take a couple of weeks to get. So I borrowed a pump off another 2-105 tractor for the one that needed it. That's when I had to make some accommodations for the slightly different pump even for the same tractor model.

Some other ideas that might be worth to check out. I have an old IH irrigation pump. Over time they have probably dropped too much radiator sealant in it. On a cold day, if one starts it, the lower radiator hose will collapse upon itself and restrict the flow. That said, here are some ideas:

1. Did you remove the bottom radiator hose and see if water ran through the radiator easily?
2. Did you check the lower radiator hose to see if it is collapsing or if the wire inside is missing (if it is supposed to have one)
3, Anything else limited the flow of water into the bottom side of the engine
4. You may have to remove the water pump to get it checked out. Obviously the loader will be an issue.

Hey RUSTRED,

Please report the rest of the story after the problem is solved!!!!

Phil Heisey

Whatever it turns out to be, take the block drains out on each side at the rear of block and dig / flush all the junk that collects in the back of the block while your at it.

Let us know what happened I've replaced the water pump a couple times now in my 2-105 I didn't have any problem getting the pump from the dealer one time a local guy here rebuilt it we just bought a rebuilding kit

yes, I will do some inspecting first. funny john schwiebert didn't give some info on this perkins problem.
I got the same engine in my massey combine.

I would have to think that your hunch is correct. if the water is not circulating in the block, the impeller must not be rotating. Early 2-85's had a smaller shaft near the impeller, as was on 105's. Did see this happen on a 105 one time, shaft broke at the inner seal.