Doubt I can get this BGS-H Cletrac running...

So here lies an old Cletrac that belonged to my father in law. It WAS running 20 some odd years ago, but he parked it right here and that was it, I don't know what could be wrong with it. He sadly passed away a few years ago.

After successfully bringing his old Oliver 550 back to life that sat for just as long, maybe just maybe I can get this thing running again. It's in rough shape, guess I can start by checking if the engine isn't seized. Any advice? Run away? LOL

The 2 brother in laws think I'm nuts, but I would get a kick out of it if the family saw this old heap run again.

Let me know if these pictures went through. And after seeing them, would you also agree I am nuts? lol

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I thought the pictures were great. It doesnt look like it is in to bad of shape. I would try to get it running again.
 
Pictures look fine to me.Tractor looks good too I once got a Allis Chalmers UC started after working on it for a couple hrs that hadn't run in over 30 years.It smoked and burned some
oil but that was the case before it was parked probably what helped preserve it.
 
Undercarriage and blade cylinders don't look too bad, needs to be brought back. If you haven't dealt with a Cletrac/Oliver before, THE guy to talk to is Landis Zimmerman in Ephrata PA 717-
738-2573.
 
If it ain't seized up, it'll run. Looks
like you're in a drier area like the
southwest US? If that was setting outside
in MI, the condensation would have probably
stuck the engine in a year or 2. Clean the
carb, get fuel down to it, clean the
points, get power to the coil and from the
coil to the distributor, and I'll bet
she'll run. Oh yeah, check all the fluids
first and dump a little oil in the
cylinders through the spark plug holes
before you try to crank it over.
 
Simple. They ain?t making them anymore. They will only become more rare than they are already. It is always worth at least checking out
what is actually wrong and possible fixes. There are poeple out there that actually know what they are talking about. Speak to them, not the
average (or below) reply on a forum.
 



The surrounding scenery could be any one of a thousand places in California. That means if it's not stuck, it will run, probably fairly easily.
 
I'm in Hollister Ca, 40 miles south of the San Fransisco Bay Area. It stay pretty dry out here.

Today I pulled the plugs, which came out easy, and poured some Marvel Mystery oil down the cylinders. Some of that oil made its way past the rings and was dripping out of the carburetor.

I checked the oil, it was low but it had some!

I took the Carb off, I'll take it apart and do a rebuild. The shift lever isn't stuck, I can shift into every gear with ease. Clutch pedal was movin nicely. Its got a front mounted hydraulic pump, so I don't think I'll be able to turn the engine over that way, I'll have to use the starter. Unless there is another way? These are probably positive ground machines? Not all the wiring is there, I'll have to figure out where to hook wires up to so I can bump the starter.

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I can spin the PTO shaft out back by hand.

I took the seat off so I can gain access to this trans cover plate.

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Not sure what this little lever does, PTO engagement?

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Where's the oil filter on this thing?
 

It came out the carb because it came through the head and manifold, not past the rings.

Grab the fan and see if the belts are tight enough to make the motor turn.
 
(quoted from post at 17:16:56 11/15/18)
It came out the carb because it came through the head and manifold, not past the rings.

Grab the fan and see if the belts are tight enough to make the motor turn.

Yea, that's what I meant. LOL.

I tried the fan belt trick, couldn't do it. I think tomorrow I'll jack the blade up, and chain it. I'll try to pull it with another tractor I have. I'll be careful. Lol I really don't think it's seized.
 
An hour with a power washer would do wonders. It may not have an oil filter. Some of my early tractors did
not have them.
 
While Cletrac engines can be a problem for spares (more particularly the oil burners, I think), it is usually the undercarriage which is the
expensive part, if completely shot. This one does not look too bad, and anything can be rectified, but this can be the expensive part of restoring
a crawler to tip-top running condition.


I would get power to the starter motor and check that oil pressure can be raised (without spark plugs in place) before trying to start the engine.
 
(quoted from post at 02:46:04 11/16/18) While Cletrac engines can be a problem for spares (more particularly the oil burners, I think), it is usually the undercarriage which is the
expensive part, if completely shot. This one does not look too bad, and anything can be rectified, but this can be the expensive part of restoring
a crawler to tip-top running condition.


I would get power to the starter motor and check that oil pressure can be raised (without spark plugs in place) before trying to start the engine.

Okay, I hooked power to the starter, the engine spins freely! (with the plugs out of course)

I'll hook up an oil pressure gauge and see what I can find out.
 
The rear sprockets looks pretty good, so I assume the tracks aren't too bad. Everything looks reasonably decent. I say it is worth fooling around with until you find something seriously wrong with it. As mentioned below, contact Landiss Zimmerman. He will steer you right. I redid a family OC-4 and got everything I needed from Mr. Zimmerman. He has a ton of parts around for Oliver/Cletrac. His brother also has a foundry where they cast some new parts.
 
Thanks. We're gettin somewhere. Have new plugs, new coil, I got spark at the plugs. And it's popin, I'd like to verify the firing order. Any one have a diagram?
 
Just about all straight six cylinders engine firing order is 15 36 24. Does it run if you spray some parts cleaner in the intake.
 
(quoted from post at 18:04:56 11/18/18) Just about all straight six cylinders engine firing order is 15 36 24. Does it run if you spray some parts cleaner in the intake.

It's cranks over, once in a while it'll pop. Yes I was spraying some starting fluid. I pulled the plugs multiple times and put a few drops of gas in each cylinder. I have my hand over the carb as a choke. But that's all I'm gettin. Tried for a few hours today...
 
(quoted from post at 18:10:51 11/18/18)
(quoted from post at 18:04:56 11/18/18) Just about all straight six cylinders engine firing order is 15 36 24. Does it run if you spray some parts cleaner in the intake.

It's cranks over, once in a while it'll pop. Yes I was spraying some starting fluid. I pulled the plugs multiple times and put a few drops of gas in each cylinder. I have my hand over the carb as a choke. But that's all I'm gettin. Tried for a few hours today...


It won't do anything until you rebuild the carb. You'll just be wasting time and even if it starts, you'll still have issues. Get a kit, run fuel from a bypass tank or something to get it going.
 
It won't do anything until you rebuild the carb. You'll just be wasting time and even if it starts, you'll still have issues. Get a kit, run fuel from a bypass tank or something to get it going.

I took the carb apart and cleaned everything, but I didn't have a rebuild kit. I reused everything. That could be one of my problems I guess. Zimmerman mentioned forget this carb and buy a rebuilt Zenith from him for $270, since there's nothin available for the Tillotson.

I have another fuel source sittin on the hood as a gravity feed.

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(quoted from post at 13:04:11 11/19/18)
It won't do anything until you rebuild the carb. You'll just be wasting time and even if it starts, you'll still have issues. Get a kit, run fuel from a bypass tank or something to get it going.

I took the carb apart and cleaned everything, but I didn't have a rebuild kit. I reused everything. That could be one of my problems I guess. Zimmerman mentioned forget this carb and buy a rebuilt Zenith from him for $270, since there's nothin available for the Tillotson.

I have another fuel source sittin on the hood as a gravity feed.

Call these guys: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/TrackitsC.htm#TracClet
 
Okay so I have some stuck valves. LOL. 0 psi on all cylinders except number 5, 80 psi. I pulled the intake/exhaust manifold and the head off. Think I'm gonna do a quick valve job. Nothin I cant handle.

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Alright today I pressure washed the head and intake/exhaust manifold, then did a real quick bead blast job. Good enough. LOL

I cleaned the top of the block, pistons, wiped the bores out and wire wheeled everything. My father is coming over today with a valve spring tool so I can remove the valves. I'll bead blast those too. More to come.

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So........from what I found out why it was parked, my wife's brother mentioned it needed planetary gears, or they were broken, or something of that matter, he couldn't remember exactly, but for sure had something to do with the planetary gears.

Are these something that could be rebuilt?
 
(quoted from post at 17:56:26 11/22/18) So........from what I found out why it was parked, my wife's brother mentioned it needed planetary gears, or they were broken, or something of that matter, he couldn't remember exactly, but for sure had something to do with the planetary gears.

Are these something that could be rebuilt?

Planetaries? I doubt the gears themselves are bad. My guess would be if it's like the other Cletrac/Olivers, the bushings may be bad or the brake bands need relining.
 
Been real busy this month but was able to get stuff done the past 3 weeks. I took the radiator apart. Not as bad as I thought. I think I can work with this core. Couple of tubes I'll need to block off, but should be fine. Experimenting with paint. Caterpillar yellow is off, then I went with orange, which isn't right either, but it sure looks close to the Cletrac orange, of which I ordered a case of it.

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Of course there were some stuck bolts in the exhaust manifold, so I made a repair that has worked excellent for me in the past.

Cut the bolts off flat:

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Drilled the holes to accept a 1/2-20 tap:

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Then I buy these brass fittings which have a 1/2-20 straight thread, and Loctite them in:

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Then I drill and tap the inside of the fitting for a 3/8-16 bolt:

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Then grind off the heads and make sure its all flat:

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Works very good :)

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Cut off a piece of stainless, I'm gonna straight pipe it!

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Then I painted the manifold with POR 15 manifold paint and baked it in the oven, which my wife wasn't happy about that at all. :((

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Neat stuff. You know there's a difference between "get this... running" and restoration???? Ha Ha.... Looks great.

Pro tip on the oven baking: Find a free used commercial oven on Craigslist and keep it in garage for such purposes. Happy wife...
something or other...
 
(quoted from post at 09:42:44 12/18/18)


Neat stuff. You know there's a difference between "get this... running" and restoration???? Ha Ha.... Looks great.

Pro tip on the oven baking: Find a free used commercial oven on Craigslist and keep it in garage for such purposes. Happy wife...
something or other...

Sure turning into a resto! I think I found a free oven on Craigslist. :)

Today was an excellent day though. I finished lapping the valves, my father is helping me here.

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I replaced 2 valve guides and 2 exhaust valves.

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We got everything cleaned up and finished the valve adjustment:

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Bolted on the head:

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And exhaust manifold:

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We got it started! Man it sounds really good! I don't want to run it too long without coolant, but I'll post a video soon! I need to finish the radiator and install new freeze plugs, but I have to remove the water pump and the starter, a couple freeze plugs sit right under there.[/QUOTE]
 

I noticed the freeze plugs are busted
It either froze at one time or they rusted out
Better check those[/quote]

Yes thank you. I pulled the starter, water pump, distributor housing, and oil filter housing so I can replace all 6 of those on the side of the block.

I ordered a rebuilt water pump/distributor housing,drive gear all from Zimmerman's as mine was all complete toast. lol. more pics to come.
 
Great quality photos. My BGSH has pretty much the same issues yours did. Where did you end up getting new engine gaskets - Zimmermans? How
about the radiator gaskets? Thanks
 
(quoted from post at 06:19:47 01/08/19) Great quality photos. My BGSH has pretty much the same issues yours did. Where did you end up getting new engine gaskets - Zimmermans? How
about the radiator gaskets? Thanks

Yes, I got all the gaskets I needed from Zimmermans. Same for the radiator gasket, which is just a peel and stick, you punch your own holes. Very easy.
 
So I got some more work done today. I was stuck on the water pump for a month, had to look for one, and save my pennies for a while, they sure are not cheap, I got a rebuilt unit from Landis Zimmerman.

Mine was all seized up, looks like it was previously worked on years ago, they brazed the impeller all back together, the housing was all cracked and welded back. The distributor/water pump drive shaft was chewed all to ****. Luckily I found a whole new unit.

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I tried to get it apart to save it, but it was too far gone. I used a lot of heat too.

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rebuilt unit, very nice! $$$

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Got the rusted out freeze plugs replaced with some brass ones. :)

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Kept on going and got the water pump bolted on, then the oil filter housing. That's enough for a days work. I'll clean up the block where the starter goes, I got that rebuilt too. You can see when I started, the cylinder head is a different orange, then I special ordered a case of Cletrac orange and painted everything else with it. I'm leavin the head that other orange, I don't care. LOL. Just an old dozer.

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I had to rebuild the hydraulic pump, which turned into a rather big ordeal. Once I had it apart, I needed new bearings & seals. The bearings were NOT cheap, $40 each and I needed 8!! Luckily my local bearing house was able to cross over the old numbers, it took a few days of research. LOL. Of course, no one had gaskets, I had to make them myself, very time consuming! I had this pump built 3 times over, each time having to make new gaskets to get the gear-to-case clearances right. What a ROYAL pain in the A**! The first time was too tight and would not turn once bolted together! This dang pump almost broke me. LOL.

Here's some pics of disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly.

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My ultra sonic cleaner really sped things up!

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Pulling old bearings out and pressing in the new ones

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Lightly sanded all surfaces nice & flat.

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Found some real thin gasket material, used adhesive spray to glue them on and what a tedious process to cut everything out, 8 sealing surfaces!!

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Finally reassembly!

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At last the pump is done.

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Well I got some more work done this weekend. After I got the engine to run by itself, I wanted to see if the tractor would move...So I pushed in the clutch, placed it in gear and eased off the clutch...the drive sprockets nudged a little bit, the tracks tightened as if it was gonna start to roll forward, then all of a sudden, as I apply full torque and release the clutch all the way out, I hear a banging/grinding noise, and the tractor ceases to move!!!

So I just may have found the problem why this thing was parked...Busted trans, or drive gear, or something. I don't know. So I get out a book and start reading, and start pulling inspection covers. LOL I have found that the inner and outer main drive shaft bearings have disintegrated and all that remains is the bearing race. LOL. The drive shaft gear was now flopping unsupported in the housing making it skip over the bull gear. If that makes sense. LOL Here's some pics.

Here are the covers I start to remove, the shifter and PTO lever just come straight out. easy.


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Kind of a mess in there but I can work with that. lol

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I didn't find anything unusual in there so it was suggested to me to pull the final drive covers behind the sprockets...

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One side looked good, had bearings. :)

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The other side was the problem side! No bearings, just the race! LOL

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This was the unsupported gear that was skipping on the bull gear, if you will...

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I had to get my Kubota, and pull the Cletrac forward so a hole in the sprocket lines up with those inspection covers, allowing me to remove the shaft and gear!

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Comes out right through this hole.

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Not much to see here.

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These guys look good.

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So the inner and outer bearings were 50 bucks a piece, should be here by Friday. I don't know what I have to do yet to install the new bearings...break track and pull the sprocket, then take apart the bull gear/final drive housing...press the bearings in...I don't know yet. I got some work ahead of me boys. More to come. LOL
 
Well I sure had a busy Saturday. I found the master link in the track and pulled the tractor till it was in the sprocket. Used a torch got the little pin out.

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Then started beating on this dang pin, man it wouldn't budge.

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I had to borrow my brother in laws Oxy/Acetylene torch to get the chain links cherry red!

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Then after pounding on that **** pin for...oh I don't know, 200 strikes with a 12 pound sledge, I finally got it.

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My hand slipped and I smashed the sh!t out of my finger.

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The sprocket nut is 3 dang inches big, it was pretty tight.

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But not as tight as the sprocket on the shaft. Oh my that was a tough one. I made a puller out of 3/4 grade 8 all thread, some 1" thick plate that I burned 2 holes through, and a bottle jack.

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Some more heat and beating on it, also maxed out my 10 ton jack, finally came off.

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I had some timbers I had layin around I cut to fit. lol Jacked it up with 2 jacks.

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With the sprocket out of the way, I was able to take off the first half of the final drive cover, which also took some beatin.

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I have a lot of cleanin to do! There parts of the bearing races and ball bearings everywhere. What a mess.

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I have to pull this cotter pin, take the nut off and pull and replace the inner and outer bearing on this too because the sprocket was wobbling like a bad wheel bearing.

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Started at 10 this morning, finished at 11pm. I'm beat. good night.
 
Bull gear assembly pulled apart. few drops on a block of wood did the trick. isn't working in the dirt so fun!!

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I'll order the bearings and seals from Zimmerman tomorrow, If he has 'em. maybe i'll start cleaning everything. I dunno

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Maybe I'll start cleaning everything. Gonna take a lot of solvent/diesel/kerosene.
 
So first things first, after cleaning the bull gear, I think it's in rough shape, couple of chipped teeth, some pitting too. This thing has really been through the paces...I think I have no choice but to run it, I don't know how much a good serviceable unit will cost, if I could find one, plus shipping, this thing has to weigh 75 pounds.

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Got the front of the tractor all jacked up and on blocks. That was a workout with these cheap old worn out 6 and 8 ton bottle jacks. LOL

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So I decided to pull the steering differential assembly, because I found a couple more wobbly gear shafts in there which led me to believe there were more shot and busted bearings in the case, and I wanted to clean the dirty, full of metal shavings sludge at the bottom of the case... So in order for me to pull that out, The PTO shaft, and the PTO bearing (which was shot by the way, it got hot with no oil and had some bluing on it) had to come out, same for the PTO unit itself, which of course is not light.

So this picture here highlights the PTO shaft, underneath it towards the rear, is the transmission, steering diff and final drive oil pump, which also had to come out. Then the 2 great big main caps on each side for the steering differential come off.

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Here is the very uncommon gear reduction style PTO drive unit

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Here's the whole kit containing everything for the PTO, I may not put it back, I'll clean it all up, rebuild it, and either put it on the shelf or sell it to help buy much needed parts. A lot of these Cletracs did not come with a PTO, so the round cover out back and the rectangular cover on top of the trans case are easy to get.

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The bottom stud at 6 'O-Clock, the nut was not there, thank goodness because it would have been impossible to remove, the gear reduction unit sits right there, no tools can fit in there, nothing. I have no idea how on earth you would put a nut on there. So my guess whoever installed it left that one out! it leaked oil at the bottom, it was FULL of HARD greasy dirt clods.

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The steer clutch bands are out of the way, the oil pump in the rear had to come out, and I puts these bolts in to help me get a better grip to lift the big giant back braking thing out of there!!! This was HEAVY! (I do not have an overhead crane!!)

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Here it is in all its glory. Some of the gears inside are pitted, the bearings are kinda shot and do the shimmy. I just don't know if I'm in the mood to rebuild it...It most likely wont be cheap. I really don't want to deal with gear lash and end play and all that stuff ya gotta do like when ya rebuild the axle on a truck.

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Well that's it for now. I have a few days of parts cleaning. My back hurts from lifting that. I shoulda used my Kubota.
 

You really have a love affair going on here. It's obviously not worth the investment, which I understand, but what's your end game?
 

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