1855 rebuild

bison

Well-known Member
1855 transmission and differential.
It appears there's to much play on the transmission gears and the sun gears and satellites in the vids.

[video play=false:ac43b7bec2]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/videos/mvvideo27618.mov[/video:ac43b7bec2]

[video play=false:ac43b7bec2]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/videos/mvvideo27619.mov[/video:ac43b7bec2]

what do you say,...normal or not.
 
(quoted from post at 00:39:38 12/07/18) I say ?check the specs, and adjust/repair as deemed necessary?

I have no specs to check against. The IT manual I have makes no mention about tranny gear side play nor mention anything on the sun/ satellite gear backlash at all.
 
(quoted from post at 09:02:34 12/07/18)
(quoted from post at 00:39:38 12/07/18) I say ?check the specs, and adjust/repair as deemed necessary?

I have no specs to check against. The IT manual I have makes no mention about tranny gear side play nor mention anything on the sun/ satellite gear backlash at all.

I can check a manual, but it won't be until later tonight.
 
I keep looking at the 2 pictures. I don't remember the 1855 tractors having the supports for the bull pinion housings. How much end play do you have in that top shaft? You have a serial number? Also I don't remember that much of that Teflon sealing ring showing. But it has been over 43 years since I looked at one.
 


So I shared your videos with my friend, a retired 42 year Oliver mechanic, and he said all looks normal. He only mentioned how there seems to be a little delay between spider gear movement when you move the ring gear, but that could just be the angle/effect of the video. If that were the case the spider gear pins may be worn, but he said that would be really odd. He said you should drag a magnet through the bottom of the pan.
 
(quoted from post at 15:55:30 12/07/18) I keep looking at the 2 pictures. I don't remember the 1855 tractors having the supports for the bull pinion housings. How much end play do you have in that top shaft? You have a serial number? Also I don't remember that much of that Teflon sealing ring showing. But it has been over 43 years since I looked at one.
ttps://forumphotos.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto27696.jpg[/img]
 
(quoted from post at 22:53:00 12/07/18)

So I shared your videos with my friend, a retired 42 year Oliver mechanic, and he said all looks normal. He only mentioned how there seems to be a little delay between spider gear movement when you move the ring gear, but that could just be the angle/effect of the video. If that were the case the spider gear pins may be worn, but he said that would be really odd. He said you should drag a magnet through the bottom of the pan.

See the reply to Mr Swiebert.

The tranny and rear end are all but empty and clean as a whistle,..there was hardly and fillings on the drain plug magnets either.
 

I'm assuming when you use the term satellite you mean the same thing as spider gears, just so we're on the same page.
 
(quoted from post at 15:00:38 12/08/18)
I'm assuming when you use the term satellite you mean the same thing as spider gears, just so we're on the same page.
es. same bird different names.
 
Don't know why the pic doesn't show,...I'll try again
mvphoto27711.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 17:14:44 12/08/18)
Could that goo on the pinion be the result of draining? Is it just resting there?
ope, the metal on these spots is chipped out.
 
(quoted from post at 15:55:30 12/07/18) I keep looking at the 2 pictures. I don't remember the 1855 tractors having the supports for the bull pinion housings. How much end play do you have in that top shaft? You have a serial number? Also I don't remember that much of that Teflon sealing ring showing. But it has been over 43 years since I looked at one.

Tractor Ser # is 228071-685.
 
(quoted from post at 19:13:25 12/08/18)
(quoted from post at 17:14:44 12/08/18)
Could that goo on the pinion be the result of draining? Is it just resting there?
ope, the metal on these spots is chipped out.
On closer inspection I start to wonder if these spots are not a factory defect and has been like that from new?
The rest of these 2 teeth and the five others are spotless and show no visible wear.
The mating ring gear looks spotless and the teeth show no damage like marring or chips or scrapes whatsoever.
 
(quoted from post at 08:20:40 12/09/18) How loose is that chain?
eeds to be replaced.

What is your take on the pinion imperfection?
Could it be a flaw in the forging process that wasn't caught by quality control or deemed acceptable?
 
The pitted surface is on the loaded face of the pinion. Photo shows only the tooth face of the ring gear on the unloaded (loaded only when using reverse) side. Need to also look at the loaded face of the teeth on the ring gear. I agree with J. that the chain looks pretty loose.
 
(quoted from post at 11:11:07 12/09/18) The pitted surface is on the loaded face of the pinion. Photo shows only the tooth face of the ring gear on the unloaded (loaded only when using reverse) side. Need to also look at the loaded face of the teeth on the ring gear. I agree with J. that the chain looks pretty loose.
. took the differential out. The ring gear teeth are as perfect as they come considering the hrs on it, no chipping marring or gauging to be found. Smooth as a ... in the moonlight .
Never mind the chain,..it will be replaced with a new one.
 


I agree, it's hard saying what's good and not after 7000 hrs, which I would consider substantial on these older beasts. Who knows what was done prior to your acquisition either. The pitting is really odd though.
 
The thrust side of the low range gear is most likely worn. If radial play is OK, It will survive. If not the gear will twist and knock teeth off the countershaft. New low range gear for the 2255's was something like $700, 10-15 years ago from Agco. On my 2255 I cut down the rear of the low range gear and added a second thrust washer between the oil collector and low range gear. I think spec is about .015 - .020 for side clearance. Seems like the low range gear issue is weak point on the 55 series tractors. I've done at least 4 of them. If the ring and pinion weren't making noise or worn on the drive side, I'd run it.
 
(quoted from post at 17:44:23 12/09/18) The thrust side of the low range gear is most likely worn. If radial play is OK, It will survive. If not the gear will twist and knock teeth off the countershaft. New low range gear for the 2255's was something like $700, 10-15 years ago from Agco. On my 2255 I cut down the rear of the low range gear and added a second thrust washer between the oil collector and low range gear. I think spec is about .015 - .020 for side clearance. Seems like the low range gear issue is weak point on the 55 series tractors. I've done at least 4 of them. If the ring and pinion weren't making noise or worn on the drive side, I'd run it.
On mine the side play on the low range gear is good,.it is the high range gear with the side play. I was already thinking of adding another washer.

The ring and pinion weren't making noise but the pitting in the pinion is on the drive side. The pitting is not contacting the ring gear teeth as it is below the pinion teeth surface.
 
The wear on the pinion teeth is from surface fatigue pitting. This is somewhat normal to see in high hour equipment. Over the years it slowly spreads across the tooth into what you have. It is a slow process. Many bull gears will show that type of wear. It could have come from a number of thing from a defect in hardening or forging the gear to an overload of those teeth to contamination once. Something caused it too start. The ring gear probably does not show wear yet because of the pinion making so many more revolutions. Shock load "instant overload" is when teeth typically get broken off. Replace it if you are going to work it. It will fail maybe not today or tomorrow but it will get worse and start to cause wear on the adjacent teeth and the ring gear.
 
(quoted from post at 08:54:45 12/10/18) The wear on the pinion teeth is from surface fatigue pitting. This is somewhat normal to see in high hour equipment. Over the years it slowly spreads across the tooth into what you have. It is a slow process. Many bull gears will show that type of wear. It could have come from a number of thing from a defect in hardening or forging the gear to an overload of those teeth to contamination once. Something caused it too start. The ring gear probably does not show wear yet because of the pinion making so many more revolutions. Shock load "instant overload" is when teeth typically get broken off. Replace it if you are going to work it. It will fail maybe not today or tomorrow but it will get worse and start to cause wear on the adjacent teeth and the ring gear.
This makes sense,...Thanks.
 
(quoted from post at 08:54:45 12/10/18) The wear on the pinion teeth is from surface fatigue pitting. This is somewhat normal to see in high hour equipment. .....

Hunt is right on the mark.

Gears are typically case hardened. That means the outer tooth surface of the gear is very hard, but the core is much softer. The hard outer surface gives good life to the contact surface while the softer core give the gear tooth toughness to resist breaking. If the gear teeth were through hardened, they would be too brittle to resist shock loads.
 
(quoted from post at 08:54:45 12/10/18) The wear on the pinion teeth is from surface fatigue pitting. This is somewhat normal to see in high hour equipment. Over the years it slowly spreads across the tooth into what you have. It is a slow process. Many bull gears will show that type of wear. It could have come from a number of thing from a defect in hardening or forging the gear to an overload of those teeth to contamination once. Something caused it too start. The ring gear probably does not show wear yet because of the pinion making so many more revolutions. Shock load "instant overload" is when teeth typically get broken off. Replace it if you are going to work it. It will fail maybe not today or tomorrow but it will get worse and start to cause wear on the adjacent teeth and the ring gear.
like to know what is considered high hour?, 6-7000 hrs on a tractor transmission or rear end is not really that high IMO.
 
(quoted from post at 09:48:44 12/11/18)
(quoted from post at 08:54:45 12/10/18) The wear on the pinion teeth is from surface fatigue pitting. This is somewhat normal to see in high hour equipment. Over the years it slowly spreads across the tooth into what you have. It is a slow process. Many bull gears will show that type of wear. It could have come from a number of thing from a defect in hardening or forging the gear to an overload of those teeth to contamination once. Something caused it too start. The ring gear probably does not show wear yet because of the pinion making so many more revolutions. Shock load "instant overload" is when teeth typically get broken off. Replace it if you are going to work it. It will fail maybe not today or tomorrow but it will get worse and start to cause wear on the adjacent teeth and the ring gear.
like to know what is considered high hour?, 6-7000 hrs on a tractor transmission or rear end is not really that high IMO.

My retired mechanic friend considers it high on the Olivers. He said unless it was built by Fiat, 7000 hours was rebuild time, and most everything in the turbo 55 series had issues long before 7000 hours.
 
(quoted from post at 10:30:10 12/11/18)
(quoted from post at 09:48:44 12/11/18)
(quoted from post at 08:54:45 12/10/18) The wear on the pinion teeth is from surface fatigue pitting. This is somewhat normal to see in high hour equipment. Over the years it slowly spreads across the tooth into what you have. It is a slow process. Many bull gears will show that type of wear. It could have come from a number of thing from a defect in hardening or forging the gear to an overload of those teeth to contamination once. Something caused it too start. The ring gear probably does not show wear yet because of the pinion making so many more revolutions. Shock load "instant overload" is when teeth typically get broken off. Replace it if you are going to work it. It will fail maybe not today or tomorrow but it will get worse and start to cause wear on the adjacent teeth and the ring gear.
like to know what is considered high hour?, 6-7000 hrs on a tractor transmission or rear end is not really that high IMO.

My retired mechanic friend considers it high on the Olivers. He said unless it was built by Fiat, 7000 hours was rebuild time, and most everything in the turbo 55 series had issues long before 7000 hours.

I should stick with Belarus then.
I have one with near 20.000 hrs on it,..I never been in the tranny or rear end yet..

And then people say Belarus is junk.
 


Ha.... Let's face it, I think we all think they're neat and such, but pinnacles of American engineering they were not. Plus, most of us don't know how the tractors were used or abused prior to our acquisitions. We're left to form opinions from our experiences and those who are still around to tell the tales.

As for the transmission and rear end- were you having issues with anything to cause you to take off the covers?
 
(quoted from post at 15:40:56 12/11/18)

Ha.... Let's face it, I think we all think they're neat and such, but pinnacles of American engineering they were not. Plus, most of us don't know how the tractors were used or abused prior to our acquisitions. We're left to form opinions from our experiences and those who are still around to tell the tales.

As for the transmission and rear end- were you having issues with anything to cause you to take off the covers?

I was gonna do a engine rebuild but figured I better have a look at what else needed attention that I did not know about before spending a couple grant on that engine.
 
Call it preventive maintenance if you wish.
I don't like breakdowns when I am haying.
 

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