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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
:

3 wire alternator

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phil in jackson

02-04-2015 06:13:38




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On the diagram just 8ns 12v conversion Ford 8n sn 263844 & up with an ammeter what do the numbers 1 and 2 mean on the alternator. Thanks Phil




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JMOR

02-05-2015 01:27:50




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to TheOldHokie, 02-04-2015 06:13:38  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Good illustration of the "why" remote sense & it certainly won't hurt anything on little tractors if you are so inclined to use it.



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Duner Wi

02-05-2015 06:24:34




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to JMOR, 02-05-2015 01:27:50  
If I asked the question on how to wire my side mount 8N with Delco 10 or 12 SI alt I would like to at least have the option to know the most correct way. Looping the S2 to the Battery lug works but if you are going to operate a sprayer motor, light bar. winch motor, or something else running the sense wire farther away from the alt.
like GM did is a better option cause now it senses more accurately the voltage requirements.

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JMOR

02-05-2015 07:24:31




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to Duner Wi, 02-05-2015 06:24:34  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeWell, Duner, as I said "if so inclined", but I'll not be altering my illustrations, because the tenth or two volts (do the math) simply does not matter & falls very, very easily within the GM recommended battery voltage of battery while on charge, and two, most conversion kits us the one-wire alternator anyway (an even closer to alt #2 to output loopback). Do as you please, be happy, re-work all my diagrams & re-issue if you like. Enough!

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greywolf224

02-05-2015 07:55:44




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to JMOR, 02-05-2015 07:24:31  
:lol: Pick a midway point. How's about the junction block. :lol:
Those heavy current draw items listed (i.e winches and light bars) would be more than what this alternator can keep up with if constantly used so I really don't think it would matter where the sense wire is connected.



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phil_n

02-04-2015 22:18:26




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 06:13:38  
Here's another link with some good stuff on alternators. http://bob_skelly.home.comcast.net/~bob_skelly/alternator_conversion/wiring_alternator1.html



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Ultradog MN

02-04-2015 10:16:59




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 06:13:38  
The easiest diagram I have seen for a 10SI is the one linked to below.
Though the page is about LanRovers, it has some interesting information about alternators in general too.
Scroll about 3/4 of the way down the page for the diagram.
I wrote to the web page owner and thanked 'him' for such an easy schematic to follow.
They wrote back and said you're welcome, then proceeded to tell me 'he' is a woman.

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Duner Wi

02-04-2015 18:24:45




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to Ultradog MN, 02-04-2015 10:16:59  
From the web site. The Number two "sense" terminal is often connected to the BATT. terminal at the back of the alternator. This is the simplest connection and the LEAST desirable since it is measuring the alternator output and not the voltage at the load connections.
UD you have posted a link to correctly wire an alternator. Do you think one person will listen???
I doubt it.



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Ultradog MN

02-05-2015 07:17:54




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to Duner Wi, 02-04-2015 18:24:45  
"Do you think one person will listen???"


To Me? The intransigent, non-electric guru?
Probably not. :)



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JMOR

02-04-2015 20:11:22




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to Duner Wi, 02-04-2015 18:24:45  
No need to in these tiny tractors (wire lengths) & tiny loads for drops. Just additional potential problems for connections & wiring complications. Difference will never materialize. Now in your 2015 with 100+ amperes loads, that is another chapter.



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phil in jackson

02-04-2015 10:00:15




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 06:13:38  
I have a no resistor coil



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phil in jackson

02-04-2015 09:58:33




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 06:13:38  
third party image

picture



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rvirgil_KS

02-04-2015 10:41:06




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 09:58:33  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

#2 pin (black wire) connects to output. (big stud with red and white wires)

#1 (yellow wire) connects to coil side of ignition switch through an "idiot light" or diode. Diode should be rated at least 3 amps at 50 volts. Radio shack 276-1661 had good heavy leads. Marker band on diode toward alternator.

Output of alternator to ammeter.

For about 3 bucks you can get a plug with short wires from auto parts store and simplify things for now and avoid confusion later if both spades are disconnected from alternator. Connect #2 wire on plug to output stud, then you only need one added wire for #1.

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JMOR

02-04-2015 10:37:01




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 09:58:33  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeSomeone just "cheaped" out & instead of the two socket connector, simply slipped two spade type wire connectors over the alternator's VR spades. If you don't short to case, that works, too.

[URL=http://s192.photobucket.com/user/JMOR_photo/media/Charging/8N_263844and_up_alternator_COLOR-1.jpg.html]third party image[/URL]

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phil in jackson

02-04-2015 09:49:42




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 06:13:38  
Picture



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Dell (WA)

02-04-2015 09:27:49




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 06:13:38  
Phil.......JMOR's drawings are pretty good ...but... they must not be answering yer questions. 12-volt alternators have 3-connections. A BIG one on the back end that goes to the BATTERY + terminal. (usually part of the amp meter board) #1 is switched EXCITE so you can turn yer engine OFF. Usually yer IDIOT lite on yer BelchFire-V8 does that. #2 is remote sense. Keeps yer alternator from outputtin' 17-volts and BOILING the water outta yer battery. Unlike yer 6-volt genny, 3-terminal alternators once excited will charge at idle.

You do know that S/N 263844 is when Ford changed from weird 4-nipple front mount with genny on right side to the 5-nipple side mount with genny on LEFT side, don't you?

In either case, change the roundcan ignition coil to NAPA IC-14B and use NO resistors. It should be intuitively obvious change yer headlites and tail lite to 12-volts. Don't haffta change yer 6-volt starter motor 'cuz one of the "benefits" of 12-volts is yer starter motor really "whizzes" for faster and eazier starting. ........HTH, Dell a 12-volt advocate for the right reasons

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phil in jackson

02-04-2015 09:10:42




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 06:13:38  
I have a 3 wire Delco with wires coming out of 1 and 2, not a plug in type like on my other 8n.



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kylemorley

02-04-2015 11:37:45




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 09:10:42  
The plug is intended to make it easy to hook up, and harder to hook up the wrong way, but the connectors in the hole are standard spade connectors, so many of us who forgot to swipe the right plug at the junkyard or can't find one at the auto parts store just use two spades and hope we will remember which is which (a poor bet, in my case).



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JMOR

02-04-2015 09:16:07




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 09:10:42  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeReally?! Wires & not a plug onto two spades? Never seen or heard of such thing. Picture?



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phil in jackson

02-04-2015 06:51:34




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 06:13:38  
can you explain where they go. I got a new wiring harness from just 8ns and I don't think they have the excite and sense on the harness.



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kylemorley

02-04-2015 07:54:12




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 06:51:34  
Definitely a job for jmors fine diagrams!

It takes a couple of minutes longer to wire up a 3-wire alternator, but it is well worth doing because it is a little more efficient, and when the alternator needs replacement you can go down and buy a cheap standard rebuild at any bargain autparts store, rather than hunting around and paying extra for one modified to be one wire.



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HCooke

02-04-2015 07:11:41




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 06:51:34  
Google 'wiring diagrams by JMOR' This site will not let me post a link.

Just 8Ns and this site sell a 12 volt conversion kit and wiring harness that is one wire to the alternator and ignores the '1' and '2' connectors. I have one on a 9N and it works just fine.



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JMOR

02-04-2015 07:08:08




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 06:51:34  
You don't use either if a 1-wire alternator. If you bought their kit, it is a 1-wire. 1/2 terminals will be present whether 1-wire or 3-wire.
What do you have?



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JMOR

02-04-2015 06:46:56




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 Re: 3 wire alternator in reply to phil in jackson, 02-04-2015 06:13:38  
1-Excite
2-Sense



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