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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
:

hydraulic control arm ?

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swpaguy

07-02-2014 07:33:26




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I think that's what the technical name for it is. Anyway, the lift wasn't working properly so I drained and cleaned with kero. Is this arm supposed to have a bend in it or is it supposed to be straight? The diagram shows it being straight. third party image

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ZANE

07-04-2014 16:51:24




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to swpaguy, 07-02-2014 07:33:26  
When the bend is mostly in one spot it is usually a short cut to get the lift working again without taking the top assembly off and doing it right.

If the bend is like the curve of a rainbow it was caused by a badly sticking control valve. When the piston comes partially out of the bore it comes in contact with the large dowel pin on the control rod and pulls the control valve out to the neutral position. If the control valve is stuck firmly in place the lift just keeps trying and the result is a bent control rod. I've seen it many times.

Get my jig and instructions for adjusting the 8n lift and do it right the first time.

Zane

Zane

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swpaguy

07-05-2014 19:19:50




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to ZANE, 07-04-2014 16:51:24  
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Glad you found the post, saved me some time from looking for you. I will be ordering the jig in the near future... Thanks



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Hobo,NC

07-02-2014 19:19:30




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to JB in Co, 07-02-2014 07:33:26  
If the lift works I don't fudge with it... Normally when the arm has been bent to take care of a adjustment issue position will work OK but not draft if you need draft then pull the top cover and beat are press the arm back straight... Theirs no reason to buy a replacement it can be straighten... Actually you can use a torch go in the inspection hole heat it and pry it straight but why I dunno...
Bending it probably got a farmer back in action cheaply I would not call that a pinhead move.. Not that I like it but both parties benefited from it... There does come a time the piper has to pay up and I spec that time has come....
Zane's Jig and instructions followed (but not by a pin head) and a BFH will resolve your issue...

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swpaguy

07-02-2014 19:38:25




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to Hobo,NC, 07-02-2014 19:19:30  
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Funny you posted this. I was just thinking if I could try to pry this thing straight or if I could cause more damage, perhaps to the lower linkage. ..I don't know how stout that is. ... any thoughts about trying that from anyone? I know it doesn't substitute "doing it right" but I need to get this thing able to lift asap.



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NNP

07-03-2014 04:25:30




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to swpaguy, 07-02-2014 19:38:25  
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straightening a rod in place?

NNP hacks...

Weld a u-channel to the end of a pry bar so it can't flex sideways when prying.

Right angle bracket bolted in front of it with a J-hook threaded rod in the center to give it a pull.

stout angle iron or split pipe along the backside with a U-clamp top and bottom, then tighten the clamps.

I probably wouldn't try them here.

One reason is it might be bent for a reason.

Two is that mark on the rod a couple inches from the bottom

Broke and welded? wouldn't touch it....

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Hobo,NC

07-03-2014 04:52:33




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to NNP, 07-03-2014 04:25:30  
As you can tell from my statement I am not fer it...

I will bet it was bent in place intentionally...

I will bet if he straighten it in place the lift cover will be coming off to adjust it like its spose to be...

When you bend it in place you give something up when you straighten in place you give something up... It can be overcame but that secret I will keep to my self for now....

I should have not told him it can be done but for the ones that misunderstand I wanted them to understand it was bent intentionally....

Anyone know what his problem is other than he is itching to fudge with it....

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swpaguy

07-03-2014 05:56:57




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to Hobo,NC, 07-03-2014 04:52:33  
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Honestly I know the top cover needs to come off and things need to be properly adjusted. The problem I'm dealing with is time and a quick fix to get by for a few months would be great.

Second, this wasn't bent on purpose to get things to work. The tractor has sat for a long time and im in the process of getting it running. I knew the valves were stuck and the lift arm came upand wouldn't lower again. I told my dad(he was the last one to run the tractor) what it did. However I didn't explain what I knewi needed to do which was drain, flush and clean to free up the valves. So he decided to try to get it working without my knowledge. I went to the garage a short time after he left to find it had been running. So I immediatly started checking to see what he did and found the lift was maxed out and heard it clicking (still trying to raise)when I engaged the pto. With that being said. .. He tried fixing it with force and end result bent the rod.

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Hobo,NC

07-03-2014 06:54:38




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to swpaguy, 07-03-2014 05:56:57  
Did you get the control valve freed up and functional.



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swpaguy

07-03-2014 08:04:02




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to Hobo,NC, 07-03-2014 06:54:38  
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Yeah got that working. The bend just prevents the valve from closing all the way now so it has a slow rise with the touch leverdown.



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Hobo,NC

07-03-2014 09:37:23




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to swpaguy, 07-03-2014 08:04:02  
What have you got to loose Heat it and bend it back nuttin to it....



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russb wa

07-02-2014 14:01:49




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to swpaguy, 07-02-2014 07:33:26  
You will want the I and T FO-4 shop manual. Particularly paragraph 151. the photo shows how I used a framing square to get close (about 5/8 in. out of square with the base of the cover) before installing the cover. it turned out to be close enough, (quadrant lever full up rocker lever contacting housing) that I didn"t need any further adjustments.

A fellow around here named Zane makes a jig and instructions, fool proof.

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swpaguy

07-02-2014 14:50:48




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to russb wa, 07-02-2014 14:01:49  
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Thanks I will be looking for him



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Bruce (VA)

07-02-2014 10:16:27




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to swpaguy, 07-02-2014 07:33:26  
There are two reasons why that rod is bent.

It was intentional by some pinhead previous owner who was too or too ignorant lazy to properly adjust the internal linkage, or at some time the control valve stuck & the lift kept raising.

Yes, you can straighten them. My batting average is .333. (3 bent, one survived)

Yes, you need to pull the top cover. And, if it was my tractor, I'd replace the lift piston while I was in there.

Before you start, it would be a wise move to get a jig from Zane Sherman to adjust the internal linkage. And, make a couple of “guide studs” by cutting the heads off of two 7/16-14 x 3 5/8” bolts. Also, if your lift cylinder rebuild kit has the leather washer, get CNH part number 87051231 which is the neoprene washer for the lift piston instead of the leather one.

The lift cover weighs nearly 100 lbs with the upper lift arms attached, & is very hard to maneuver. An engine hoist is an excellent idea. Remove the seat and spring, disconnect the upper lift arms at the knuckles. Remove the 14 bolts that hold the cover to the housing. (note that there are three different lengths) DO NOT remove the four nuts under the seat! Remove the right side inspection cover so you can remove the control rod tip from the pump intake valve. Lift the back of the cover straight up and slide a piece of wood under the cover to keep the tip of the control rod out of the rocker shaft. Once you are sure the control rod is out of the rocker shaft, you can then remove the cover. Turn the cover upside down, remove the four bolts that hold the cylinder to the cover, & use a little compressed air on the cyclinder to remove the piston. Check the cylinder for excessive scratches, hone if necessary. Install a new piston with "0" ring and backing washer in the cylinder. Install the CNH neoprene washer w/ the concave side toward the “O” ring. At this point, check the cam follower pin & the control rod. If the cam follower pin is worn replace it. Then, if you have a jig, adjust the linkage to specs. The ‘shade tree’ adjustment was to bend the control arm to compensate for normal wear in the linkage, springs & cam follower pin. If the control rod is bent, remove it & straighten it. (very carefully; they break easily!) Replace the gaskets under the cylinder and bolt it back on the cover. Put the gasket on the tractor (no sealer) and put the gude studs in place. Unless you do this every day or have eyeballs in your finger tips, get some help to guide the tip of the control arm back into the rocker shaft. (this is the point you will wish you had a engine hoist to hold the top cover while the control rod dances around the intake valve arm on the pump!) Align the cover holes up with the housing holes. Remove the guide studs. Tighten cover bolts, connect lift arms install the seat. Re-install the inspection covers with new gaskets.

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swpaguy

07-02-2014 10:26:30




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to Bruce (VA), 07-02-2014 10:16:27  
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Thanks. Sounds like a fun job. I know how it was done, someone was butting in trying to fix it by force instead of letting me do it right. The valves were stuck, got them freed up then noticed this. Any idea ofa part number for the rod? Can't seem to find it.



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Bruce (VA)

07-02-2014 10:35:56




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to swpaguy, 07-02-2014 10:26:30  
p/n 504, but probably NLA.

These guys should be able to help you w/ used parts:

Jim Webb webbtractorATgmail.com.

John Smith smith8NATatt.net

Rod Mondor fltractorATpeoplepc.com


Replace the AT in the address w/ @



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John Smith8N

07-02-2014 08:21:33




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to swpaguy, 07-02-2014 07:33:26  
It should be straight, no bend.



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swpaguy

07-02-2014 08:40:18




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to John Smith8N, 07-02-2014 08:21:33  
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That's what I thought. It has a pretty good bend in it. I'm assuming taking the top cover off is the only way to replace that.



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HCooke

07-02-2014 09:52:26




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 Re: hydraulic control arm ? in reply to swpaguy, 07-02-2014 08:40:18  
Theyu can be straightened.



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