Ford 9N Wont Run

Hello: I am trying to get a 9n running for my uncle. It has sat for a year. Has spark at all 4 plugs. Firing order correct. Has very low compression, ranging from 60 to 70 in all four. Still 6 volt so seems to turn over slow, but uncle says it is turning over the same as it has for 30 years. Here is my specific question: When we try to start it we get a squirt of fuel out of the front of the carburetor (where air intake attaches). This is not a leak caused by gravity but a horizontal squirt of fuel aft out of the carburetor. Something has to be squirting that fuel out. Do you think we could have a intake valve or valves not sealing properly and somehow pushing that fuel out on the compression stroke? Thank you very much for any help.
Dave

That sounds like mighty low compression to get it running. Its probably part of the problem.

You might have a valve not closing, then again, if it wasn't, you wouldn't have compression on that cylinder.
Me?
I would be tempted to make this as painless as possible.
Pull the plugs, ground the coil wire and crank it over with your thumb over the plug hole. That engine should get enough pressure to blow your thumb off the hole.
Squirt some oil down the plug hole, let it soak in, rags over the holes and crank it over.
Install clean spark plugs, give it a shot of ether, hook up the coil wire, crank it over.
If it starts. . .
Do not shut it off for at least 20 minutes. Allow the engine to reach normal op temp (21 minutes by the book)
then you can expect that the rings have expanded and the next time it should start 'normally'.
Now if you find a stuck valve. . . Pull the gas tank off, with the plug out, reach down into the plug hole and push the valve closed with a long screwdriver or other. Seafoam Deepcreep is a good soaking penetrant to loosen up stuck valves. I use a bottle per cylinder, let soak 24 hours, crank out with plugs removed, rags over holes again, change oil, reinstall plugs and start it up.

However smarter peeple than me should be chiming in soon.

The most common reason for an engine to not start is poor spark. You mentioned that you have spark at all 4 plugs but a spark that will jump the plug gap in open air may not when under compression. The real test of spark quality is to use a spark gap device. It should be able to create a spark that jumps a 1/4 gap with a blue/white spark. If it doesn't, a new set of points is in order.

Sitting for a while can induce low compression for a few reasons. Try pull starting the tractor in 3rd gear to get it running allowing rings to seat. May or may not work but worth the try

Thanks for the comments. Regarding spark. I did clean points and then put a spark tester at each plug/wire (using 4 testers). Mainly to verify I had the firing order right. I wanted to see them light off 1 then 2 then 4 then 3. Which they did and all 4 testers light up so the spark on each jumped the gap. So it seems like I have adequate spark. Before I try to compression start it I want to get this carb issue corrected. I'm sure my needle and seat is leaking. I did clean the carb well. But even if the needle and seat were leaking fuel, wouldn't that just be a gravity leak where gas would leak out the carb. Why am I getting a squirt of fuel out the carb mouth when trying to start. Something is causing the fuel to squirt aft horizontally out of the carb. Any thoughts on why this is happening?

When you pull the plugs after trying to start the engine, are the plugs all (or some) dry, or do they have a light
coating of fuel? If they are dry, you can concentrate on the fuel delivery issue.

Quality of gas? Voltage of battery? New spark plugs? After cranking were they dry or wet?
Double check firing order, does it make any sounds like a cyl is firing?

Hello: New gas. New fully charged 6 volt battery. New Al 216 plugs. Plugs seemed fairly dry after cranking. Also tried Ether. Firing order is
right. Does sound like it wants to go but starter bendix always immediately kicks starter off. Any thought on why I am getting a gas squirt
out of carb? From my perspective, the only force (as it were) that should be in the intake manifold is vacuum. But the fact that I am
getting a fuel squirt out of carb seems to indicate the intake manifold is getting pressurized. Thoughts?

Hello: Yes they seem mostly dry. I agree with you I need to resolve fuel issue. Any thought why I might be getting fuel squirting out of carb? Seems like the intake manifold might be seeing some pressure. I would think it should only see vacuum?

You may have some valves not seating good due to sitting. Once you get the needle and seat addressed try pull starting it.

Like the others have said, I think the gas squirting out is due to valves stuck open or not seating.

Get battery tested at a local GEN/ALT shop first. A weak or dead battery will give you fits. Next is do a fuel flow test. If it fails will need to inspect all possible reasons and a carb rebuild may be in order. When was the last time you did one? Carb should not leak fuel out the air intake port to air cleaner tube at all. May have a stuck or misadjusted float. If fuel test passes, leave it alone and move on to electrical. Did you check for spark? Did you test the coil? When was your last tune-up? Did you rebuild the dist and mount it correctly? If you mounted the dist wrong - it only mounts one correct way - you will destroy the base and then have issues starting. 60/70 compression is on the poor/weak side. Engine is worn and needs a rebuild. Can start with the fuel test then with a coil test. Don't assume just because you have a 6V battery your system is wired correctly for that setup. 99.98% of all non-starting or poorly running issues are due to incorrect wiring. Do you have: 1-Wire/3-Brush GENERATOR, Round-Can Cutout Circuit, 1-Wire Starter Motor with NO Relay (Solenoid), the Ballast Resistor, Safety Start Pushbutton, Ignition Key Switch, AMMETER, and a 6V/GRP1 fully charged battery? Do you have a digital VOM? Do you have the ESSENTIAL MANUALS? I&T FO-4 Service Manual and 39-53 MPC are required reading.

1. FUEL FLOW TEST:
ENGINE COLD! Find a 1-Pint Mason Jar and place in a coffee can, then position can under the carb. Loosen the 7/16 hex flare nut on the fuel line at the carb brass inlet elbow and gently slide the fuel line off to the side so it points down into the can. Open the Fuel Sediment Bulb Valve 2 Full Turns. Observe the fuel flow is a steady stream and you fill the can with 1 pint in 2 minutes. Any sputtering, hesitation, or failure to fill gas in the Mason Jar indicates the problem is upstream on the Sediment Bulb or in the gas tank itself. If Test passes, connect the fuel line and repeat using the carb drain plug in bottom. This is an NPT tapered pipe plug thread; it's not a standard thread size, so do not try to use anything other than that to chase threads or replace. If Fuel Test passes, reset the drain plug, leave it alone, and move on -it's electrical. 99.8% of all non-starting issues are due to electrical.

2. Testing for voltage at the Square-Can Coil & Distributor:
Using your VOM, set unit to VDC and measure battery voltage static, make note what it reads. Take one probe on the VOM, polarity doesn't matter for this test, and connect it to the LH terminal on the Ballast Resistor as viewed from behind the dash. There is only one wire at this connection and it is the coil wire to ignition switch. Take the other VOM Probe and place it on any metal ground point. Turn Ignition Key Switch to ON but do not turn over engine. Now press the Neutral Safety Start Pushbutton and observe engine cranks but should not start. Observe what the voltage reading is and note. Reading should be battery voltage as notated previously with points open, half that with points closed. You can test points opening and closing by bumping the Safety Start Pushbutton and holding down it will open and close itself. Test Fails, no readings? You have a wiring issue. Test Passes? You are getting voltage to the circuit at the resistor as it should. Move on to Coil. Repeat this test only place the probe from the Resistor to the top terminal connection post of the Coil. There is only one terminal connection on the square can coil. If test passes and you get a reading on your VOM, it indicates you are getting voltage to the coil as it should be and you can move on to the Spark Test. If it still won't start, the problem is in the distributor. You can first try to remove the coil only and test the pigtail spring to see if it sufficient to make electrical connection to the points. May need to gently pull on pigtail to stretch out for a better connection then replace the coil on the unit and try to start engine again. If still a NO-GO situation, you will need to get the distributor on your bench to rebuild. First item to check is aluminum base bottom where the Cam & Weights are. If the distributor was ever forced down 180 DEG off, at first power up it would have tried to orientated it itself correctly and resulted in a cracked base making it junk. The guts are still good and can be pulled out and a new or good used baes reinstalled. If you need more help, I rebuild these front mounts so contact me and we can discuss further. My email is open.

CORRECT WIRING PICTOGRAMS FOR 9N & 2N 6V/POS GRN SYSTEM:


FORD 9N/2N ESSENTIAL OWNER/OPERATOR/PARTS/SERVICE MANUALS:



Tim Daley(MI)

Davegmc ,The fuel coming out of the carburetor is caused from a intake valve hanging stuck open or bad valve seat causing compression to come out of the throat.Remove the valve side covers turn the engine over and look for a valve sticking open,spray the stems with some PB Blaster and down the plug holes and get the valve freed up.With a oil can squirt of engine oil in each plug hole to bring up compression,install clean plugs,with good spark a shot of ether in the carburetor and try to start.

This post was edited by Den N Ms on 04/01/2023 at 01:20 pm.

I'm not a carb expert, but I can tell you that after having rebuilt 4 original 9N and 2N carbs for my own tractors, there are a number of important air and fuel flow passages that are extremely narrow and located in areas difficult to see and access. These also need to be cleaned using a very thin brass wire. To me, the problem sounds more like a clogged carburetor fuel passage, so the fuel is just finding the easiest way out of the carb housing. It took me 3 rebuilds to find and clean all those passages. There are a couple of good tutorials on this issue on a couple of other Ford N websites. When the issue is fixed, let us all know what it was. The only flaw to my reasoning is that you mention the fuel is actually squirting out and not just leaking out, so there must me some backpressure, which would suggest a stuck engine component between the carb and the cylinders, as NO FUEL is getting into any of the cylinders (all dry plugs).

Thanks Jim: Do you think it is possible for an intake valve to be slightly open to pressurize the manifold yet still have 60 PSI or so
compression in that cylinder?
(I see you are in WA. I live in Snohomish/Everett area.

Dave

Thanks for all the info Tim! Greatly appreciated!

Dave

Thanks for that! I will post the results.

Dave

Thanks. I will do some surfing and see if I can find any tutorials.

Dave

Hi Davegmc, im in lake stevens
Post text # if want me to contact
John