1952 Ford 8N lift arms won't lift.

Chris623

Member
I switch back and forth from my brush hog to a trailer hitch 4 or 5 times a year with my old tractor. Hydraulic system was working fine just last week. I disconnected my trailer hitch bar to connect my brush hog and the arms won't lift. I looked into my hydraulic fluid chamber and no oil!!!!! First thought was "shame on me for not keeping track of the level". So I bought 5 gallons of hydraulic fluid and poured it in. Not only will the arms still not lift, but the oil is running out of the two holes in the lower body up next to the caps that are for draining the oil, I believe.

A little background. I'm not a mechanic, I'm an operator. I've owned this tractor for 23 years now. I get on it and it starts.......that's all I know about a tractor. It runs great. Never gives me any trouble......and the few times I've had any minor problems, a old "vintage tractor guy" up the road has guided me through what it took to fix it. Only problem is my old friend died a few months ago and now I'm sittin' on a stump wondering what in the heck to do!

My first thought is the pump must not be working. But I wouldn't know what to do if that was the case. But I can't figure out why the freshly installed oil is coming out of the holes. I don't know what to call the holes, but they look as if they have a heavy cotter pin inserted from the inside of the tractor body to the outside and spread apart. I've never seen oil dripping off them before. Now its a serious drip and I've had to go back and try and catch as much of that expensive oil as I can.

Any thoughts or comments from those of you more knowledgeable than I would be much appreciated.

Chris623
 
The cotter keys are on the belly, correct? Those are for drainage of contaminants.

Someone more knowledgeable than I should be along, but on an 8N all 3 sumps (Hydraulic, Trans, Diff) should be common sump.

You don't have oil coming out of the fill port on the back of the axle, do you?

This post was edited by JBTech on 07/05/2022 at 03:36 pm.
 

Yes, the two cotter pins are on the belly of the body of the tractor. No, no oil coming out of the axel.
 
If your talking about the hole under the belly for the swinging draw bar maybe there where bolts in those hole that fell out so now you have a leak
 
Did you engage the pto lever by your left
heel. It has to be toward the rear for
the pump to work.

Sounds like you way overfilled the
transmission. Check the dipstick by your
right heel.
 
I'm trying to post a picture of where the oil leaks, but I keep getting this warning:

We are sorry, your post contained one or more words that are restricted due to either YT User Community standards or are common indicators of spamming, cracking, or spambot activity. This was most likely accidental but for obvious reasons, the list of such words cannot be published. Please press back arrow and remove any obvious words or unusual character sequences that would not normally occur in speech.

The oil is leaking at the lowest point of the body directly below the gearshift.[/url]
 

Yes, I have the brush hog turning, so the lever in engaged. I used to be able to see oil when looking into the hole next to the gearshift..........and couldn't see any when I put the 5 gallons in.
 
Chris623 , So first you say that you poured in 5 gallon of fluid in it because it was low,and didn't drain any out? Now it is over full and leaking out the cotter pin holes in the bottom of the chassis.
That is what the dip stick is for on the right side behind your right heal.Being over full is it now why it is leaking out worn out seals,probably leaking all over the brakes to .Check the dip stick and drain some out to get the level on the full mark.Drain out some at the small plug,better than one of the big ones.The small one under the rear axle and allow some time for the level to equalize in the housings.
Now ,do you have the PTO engaged,little lever behind your left heal,it must be engaged for the 3 point to lift.
Being the old fellow is gone,You need to get the operators manual and IT others for your tractor and study them .
 
Didn't say the oil was low.............said there wasn't any to be seen. Never had a dip stick for the hydraulic fluid. Carl always told me to just look in the hole beside the gearshift and if I couldn't see oil, add some. I could always see oil and never had to add any for 23 years. Checked it about 2 months ago and there was oil in it. Yesterday, all of a sudden.........none!

Yes, I know how to operate the PTO lever. And I have the manual for the tractor. Doesn't help a guy who isn't a mechanic. Like I stated, I'm an operator, not a mechanic. I took the top off this thing about 20 years ago when it wouldn't hold the arms at a permanent position. Took me the better part of two weeks to replace some parts and make it all work again. (still wouldn't hold the arms at a fixed position........but at least it worked up and down a bit better)
 
So what is in the dip stick hole/? That is a good way to invite water into the system having and open dip stick hole. As for correct level of oil pull the bottom bolt fro mthe cover the dip stick should be in and fill till oil comes out that hole
 
Chris623 ,Remove the bottom bolt on the right side inspection cover where the dip stick should be and oil up to that bolt hole is the full level the same as full on the dip stick.
 

Thanks guys. Will do that tomorrow. In the mean time, I just ordered a proper dip stick from here on the site.
 
I'm trying to post a picture from my files. It shows up in the preview, but not the actual post.

p831373207-4.jpg
 
Can you send a pic of the hole you look in to see if there is oil? What you are pointing to is a drain plug for the transmission chamber. Is it just dripping there or is the drain plug gone and running out?
 
As I mentioned previously, Abby, it's the fill hole right next to the base of the gearshift. The transmission oil filler plug , as it's called in the picture. The leak is out of a hole that has what looks like a cotter pin hanging out of it. That leak is just adjacent to the cap you remove to drain the oil.

p626854277-3.jpg


Okay, we've ascertained I overfilled the tractor with hydraulic oil. I get that. I assumed it was out of oil and just poured in 5 gallons. My mistake. But that doesn't address my initial problem. I went out to the tractor to hook up the brush hog and the arms wouldn't lift. That was "before" I over-filled the oil. So I still have arms that won't lift.

This post was edited by Chris623 on 07/06/2022 at 06:20 am.
 
I get that your 3 pt. isn't working and that's the problem. Any chance you flipped the draft control lever under the seat?
Also before troubleshooting further did you drain the excess oil out and set it to the correct level by removing the bolt on the cover and using that as the gauge hole?
When you move the position control does it feel like it always did? Can you see the shaft moving?
 
PTO is working just fine. No, I didn't remove any oil prior to pouring in the new.........my lack of knowledge precedes me sometimes. :oops: The quadrant lever feels exactly as it always has when moving it. Oh, and my draft control lever has never done anything.......up [i:9ddd79d9e0]or[/i:9ddd79d9e0] down. That's what I was trying to fix 20 some-odd years ago when I dared to remove the hydraulic lift system out of the tractor. What an ordeal THAT was! Talk about the blind leading the blind. My manual and I spent a couple of weeks cussing each other. :lol:
 
Okay, I removed the lowest bolt on the plate that holds the dipstick. Was able to catch another gallon of hydraulic fluid. So I've been able to save about 3 of the 5 gallons for future use. When the oil stops coming out of the hole, will that indicate there's 5 gallons in the system?

It was mentioned previously that I more than likely have saturated the brake pads. Will I have to remove the wheels to address that mistake?
 
When oil stops coming out that bot hole that means the oil level is correct.
 
(quoted from post at 14:11:54 07/06/22) When oil stops coming out that bot hole that means the oil level is correct.

Yes, that was made clear. But the oil level isn't my problem. My problem is the lifting arms don't lift.........didn't before I poured in the oil and don't now that the oil is the correct level. Any thoughts as to why that is?
 
I presume you have the PTO engaged?? If you do and it doesn't lift the problem could be in the control linkage and or a stuck control valve. One can remove the dip stick cover and have a look see in side and watch what is going on. If you see oil move around a lot that is the area of the problem. Or if you have oil pouring down from above the cylinder is self has a major problem and or if you carefully reach in and try to move the control valve by hand and the lift goes up the control valve is sticking
 

THANK YOU!!!! Yes, the PTO is engaged and works just fine.

It's 105 degrees outside and the "humadility" is through the roof. So it's too dangerous to be outside messing with a tractor right now. But I'll pull the cover off in the morning and see if I can see what might be causing the problem. If I remember correctly, the control valve was what I had to replace all those years ago. Hope it's just stuck and not damaged.
 
(quoted from post at 15:44:25 07/06/22)
THANK YOU!!!! Yes, the PTO is engaged and works just fine.

It's 105 degrees outside and the "humadility" is through the roof. So it's too dangerous to be outside messing with a tractor right now. But I'll pull the cover off in the morning and see if I can see what might be causing the problem. If I remember correctly, the control valve was what I had to replace all those years ago. Hope it's just stuck and not damaged.
952 8N has two control valves....Intake Control valve and Exhaust Control valve. Whereas in 2N/9N both functions are rolled into a single valve/spool.
 

Hmmmmm. Okay. Let's hope the one I can see from the side plate is the offender and I can lube it and give it a knock and get it working again. I don't know if I can physically lift that top section off the tractor any more. Last time I did it..........some 20 plus years ago I was just under 60 years old.
 
That is why I have my shop set up with an I-Beam in the over head and chain hoists hanging the the I-Beam on trolleys
 

My profession was that of a custom furniture builder. Don't need overhead I-Beams to do that kind of work. ;) Have to admit that over the years with this tractor I've wished for an overhead I-beam or a heavy duty A-frame a time or two.
 
(quoted from post at 16:20:43 07/06/22)
Hmmmmm. Okay. Let's hope the one I can see from the side plate is the offender and I can lube it and give it a knock and get it working again. I don't know if I can physically lift that top section off the tractor any more. Last time I did it..........some 20 plus years ago I was just under 60 years old.
bb2gj38.jpg
 
Good picture. Not a lot of photographers on these forums.

I had to do some searching, but found in the manual that this is a picture of the 8N Hydraulic pump. Will I be able to see that with the side inspection plate removed? Will I be able to remove the valve via the side plate opening?

This post was edited by Chris623 on 07/06/2022 at 02:36 pm.
 
(quoted from post at 17:27:45 07/06/22) Good picture. Not a lot of photographers on these forums.

I had to do some searching, but found in the manual that this is a picture of the 8N Hydraulic pump. Will I be able to see that with the side inspection plate removed? Will I be able to remove the valve via the side plate opening?

This post was edited by Chris623 on 07/06/2022 at 02:36 pm.
hey will be submerged in hyd fluid, so not likely to see. Can feel. Remove? Maybe, but not likely as the control arm is inserted into the loop on right side of rocker. Control are is attached to top cover. So either top cover off or pump dropped out bottom, seems to be the order of things.
 
Whats disposable funds?? I live on less $$ then what the poverty level is here in Missouri. Plus a Veteran who gets screwed by the V.A. and they denia serviced connected disabilities
 

Yup, I remember how many times I put that "lid" back on only to find the control arm didn't make it through the loop. Like I said, the tractor, manual and I became closely attached for about two weeks. Liked to lost my mind before I got it all back together and working.

So you are saying it's likely submerged, huh? Would I need to drain all the oil and pull the pump out of the bottom of the tractor to access the valve?

If this isn't a fairly easy fix I'm going to have to take it to someone for repair. $$$$$ I'm in one of those spots where I can't afford to have it fixed commercially and yet I can't do without my tractor. (going to go to the cemetery tomorrow and cuss Carl out for dying on me in my time of need) Ha Ha. He was a good friend and I miss him a lot..................................yes, especially now.
 

You sound just like me..........and don't get me started about the VA. !!!!! :evil: Livin' on Social Security checks isn't easy.......especially in today's inflationary climate.
 
(quoted from post at 18:11:28 07/06/22)
Yup, I remember how many times I put that "lid" back on only to find the control arm didn't make it through the loop. Like I said, the tractor, manual and I became closely attached for about two weeks. Liked to lost my mind before I got it all back together and working.

So you are saying it's likely submerged, huh? Would I need to drain all the oil and pull the pump out of the bottom of the tractor to access the valve?

If this isn't a fairly easy fix I'm going to have to take it to someone for repair. $$$$$ I'm in one of those spots where I can't afford to have it fixed commercially and yet I can't do without my tractor. (going to go to the cemetery tomorrow and cuss Carl out for dying on me in my time of need) Ha Ha. He was a good friend and I miss him a lot..................................yes, especially now.
irst thing I would do , at this point, is to reach into the oil and feel for the valves/rocker assy and see if I can move the parts and see if you can feel them move while operating the touch control lever with other hand. Engine not running. This will yield a direction for further exploration/work.
 
I too get S.S. and 20% service connected. If I had know back in say May of 1980 what I know now I would have had both knees and my right shoulder and my neck all service connected. When my stepson Joined the Navy his recrutor asked me what he should do before he got out. I told him go to sick bay and complain about every pain you have and then make sure you get a hard copy of it
 

That was my plan. I'll have to try and do that in the morning. It's supposed to be hotter tomorrow than today...............and it made it up to 107 degrees at around 3pm today. WHEW!
 

I can't seem to qualify for any service connected ailments. My Tinnitus is so bad in the morning and night I can't even hear myself think. I've been told that's practically an automatic since I worked on the flightline................but the VA says nope!
 
I had the good old ringing of the ears and I filed for it got tested and walked out with 10% more the day I was tested. You need to check with a V.A. service officer or some such and file again. I worked on the flight deck of the JFK CVA67 so know what you mean. I wasn't there a lot but was there at time work in the flight deck com system
 

Well, of course you are right. But I've been turned down twice already. Oh well, this isn't the place for discussing that. I just want to get my tractor back doing what it's supposed to do. I'll get up early in the morning and take that side plate off and start the "feely-feely" game and see what I find out.

Thanks.
 
I understand the heat all to well. Was around 100 here with a heat index of 105 or so. I was in Egypt back in 1878 or 79 in June and it was hot and humid.
 
Okie-Dokie.

Pulled the side plate off. You all were correct, I couldn't see down into the pump because it's submerged. Moved the lifting lever up and down and couldn't feel anything move in the "puddle". Did notice that every time I moved the lever, the harder it got to move. Wasn't doing that with the engine running and the PTO working. Would that indicate something is broken/disconnected/stuck or just not being lubricated? The Control Arm "moves"........or tries to, but it doesn't go anywhere. In looking at the diagram in my manual, it looks as if the Intake Control Valve or Exhaust Control Valve may be stuck. Do you think I'm on the right track?
 
(quoted from post at 11:56:28 07/07/22) Okie-Dokie.

Pulled the side plate off. You all were correct, I couldn't see down into the pump because it's submerged. Moved the lifting lever up and down and couldn't feel anything move in the "puddle". Did notice that every time I moved the lever, the harder it got to move. Wasn't doing that with the engine running and the PTO working. Would that indicate something is broken/disconnected/stuck or just not being lubricated? The Control Arm "moves"........or tries to, but it doesn't go anywhere. In looking at the diagram in my manual, it looks as if the Intake Control Valve or Exhaust Control Valve may be stuck. Do you think I'm on the right track?
ou can see in the picture that I posted yesterday that the large hyd drain plug is directly below the valve control rocker and thru that opening, you ought to be able to use a large screwdriver to move the valves/rocker and/or determine if stuck.
 
I apologize JMORE. I guess I don't understand what you are trying to tell me. I don't see a drain plug in your picture. :oops: You say I should be able to put a screwdriver through "that" opening and move the valves or rocker to determine if they are stuck. I don't find an opening above the pump...........unless I take the entire lift cover off the tractor. What am I missing???
 
(reply to post at 11:39:42 07/07/22)
Never mind. My tractor "ignorance" is embarrassing. I didn't realize the recess below the pivot point of the rocker in your picture was actually the back side of the oil drain plug. Just went out and, of course, I can see it. I fully understand what you are saying now. I need to find a container to save as much of the oil as I can when I open that drain. How much oil should I expect to come out?
 
There are 3 drain plugs and you should get right around 5 gal. of oil when you drain it
 
That's what I was afraid of. Now I've got to go find a 5 gallon container with a lid. Should I drain from the plug below the pump or the lowest one under the gear shift?
 
(quoted from post at 12:58:43 07/07/22) That's what I was afraid of. Now I've got to go find a 5 gallon container with a lid. Should I drain from the plug below the pump or the lowest one under the gear shift?
ou don't need to drain all 3 compartments, just the big one under pump. Less than 5 gal, but WAG says ~ 3 to 3.5
 

Okay, JMOR, thanks. I need to hop on my scooter and go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy a bucket. The one that I bought the oil in is 2/3 full, so no room for everything from the tractor.

Question from an inexperienced Tractor Mechanic wannabie: When I get the oil out, I should be able to remove the pump just by unbolting and dropping it out the bottom..........right? It's not physically connected to anything.........just the Control Arm than pokes through the lever for the valves. Isn't that correct?
 
To drop the pump you have to pull the PTO shaft out since it is what drives the pump by way of a number of cams on the shaft
 

Oh crud! That's above my pay grade, I think. :shock: I can get the oil out and check the valves to see if they are working or stuck. But the old tractor might have to go to the shop for any thing beyond that...:cry:...unless you guys are willing to walk me through the process. :?:
 
My e-mail is always open on here and if you send me an e-mail I can then give you my phone number so I can help you better. I've helped a good many on Y-T fix there tractor by way of phone calls
 
(quoted from post at 13:36:28 07/07/22)
Oh crud! That's above my pay grade, I think. :shock: I can get the oil out and check the valves to see if they are working or stuck. But the old tractor might have to go to the shop for any thing beyond that...:cry:...unless you guys are willing to walk me through the process. :?:
bolts in dirty part and that piece, shaft, bearing, seal all pull out together.
9pWdPga.jpg
 

I have always been able to un-stick'em with a long prybar again the position control leaver from the top lid thru the inspection cover hole YMMV...

The last two I did put up a good fight I almost gave up prying on it. JMOR gave you the best advice other than draining the oil its a straight shot will the least chance of breaking it.
 
(quoted from post at 14:02:34 07/07/22)
I have always been able to un-stick'em with a long prybar again the position control leaver from the top lid thru the inspection cover hole YMMV...

The last two I did put up a good fight I almost gave up prying on it. JMOR gave you the best advice other than draining the oil its a straight shot will the least chance of breaking it.

Well, I don't see any inspection hole on the top. Have a picture?
 
(quoted from post at 12:48:46 07/07/22) My e-mail is always open on here and if you send me an e-mail I can then give you my phone number so I can help you better. I've helped a good many on Y-T fix there tractor by way of phone calls

Thanks Old, I may just do that.
 
(quoted from post at 17:11:38 07/07/22)
spection hole on the Side of the tractor... Big'N and round 6 bolts mount it to the tractor sorta hard to miss...

Sorry, you said "through the top lid" and I misunderstood.

I'm working through the side inspection hole and I can't find a way to pry anything. Guess I'll have to open the drain plug beneath the pump so I can get to it from below.
 
Alright, I'm back. Had another project that required immediate attention and took me away from this one. (I'm sure you've all been there.)

I just drained the oil from the plug underneath the pump housing. When I pryed gently from below it was obvious the pivoting arm that controls the Intake Control Valve and Exhaust Control Valve was "slightly" stuck. Popped loose very easily. Fired up the tractor and tried the lift. As the PTO was turning I tried to actuate the Hydraulic Touch Control Lever, it still feels hard to move (which his definitely not normal) and I could see no movement when I looked through the side hole. And, unfortunately, there was no movement of the arms.

I'm literally just guessing, but I think the pump needs to be pulled and one or both valves need replacing..........but of course, I'm just guessing on my part.

Any ideas what might be going on?????
 
Does the control arm move the rocker in and out when you use the touch control lever?
Make sure the valves are not sticking open or shut.
I dont think you'll see any lift arm action with no fluid in the system.
 
(quoted from post at 18:11:09 07/12/22) Does the control arm move the rocker in and out when you use the touch control lever?
Make sure the valves are not sticking open or shut.
I dont think you'll see any lift arm action with no fluid in the system.

Well, DUH! (where's the smack-your-head emoji when you need one?) You're probably right about the oil. But no, the control arm doesn't move when I move the control lever. I don't know how to make sure the two valves are working.
 
If the control rod doesn't move when you move the control lever that to me says the valves are stuck. Simple reach in and see if you can move the rod by hand and see what the lift does then
 
I typed an edit to that last post, Old, but guess I didn't get it posted.

With the Lever in the forward position (down) I can move the control arm. With it up..........NOT. I can't find a leverage point to make the valve function. Unless someone has a suggestion I guess the pump has to come out of the tractor to replace or free up the valve. What say you?
 
If you cannot move the valve by hand yes you need to drop the pump and then you can really see what is going on. It could have sat with water in it and rusted the valve up tight
 
Well, that was the very last thing I wanted to have to do, but I guess it is what it is. My "to do" list is so long I've been stapling additional sheets to it. :lol: Frankly, this doesn't HAVE to be repaired until I need to brush hog once again.......maybe in a month or so, but I don't like having any equipment that doesn't work the way I need for it to.

So I'll have to remove the PTO, is that correct? Does it just slide out of some splines inside the pump........should it go back in as easily as it comes out?

This post was edited by Chris623 on 07/12/2022 at 06:12 pm.
 
Well again as I said my e-mail is open if you need extra help by e-mail or phone. But yes the PTO shaft has to come out and it is also a good idea to pull the side cover with the PTO shiftier so at to see the end of the PTO shaft etc. One also need to have some sort of jack to lower the Pump down since while it is not super heavy it is heavy enough to hurt if you slip up
 
Well, I may call on you for help when the time comes. I don't have a jack that would work for that. I'd think some sort of a platform scissor jack would be called for.
 
I've used the simple floor jack like you can buy at Walmart. Last I checked they where around $30 but with every thing like it is could be more. I have floor jacks in all my cars and have a good number just laying around so I have them if I need them. Also dropping the pump is not just have it drop out you have to hold your mouth just right and know how to move it side to side to get it out
 
Okay, "Floor jack". I have one of those but never think of using it out in the dirt on a sloping piece of property. I'll just have to make it work.

I've got a lot going on right now at my place and in my life. Think I'll lay this project aside for right now and not rush into it.
 

You are making this hard...

Use a long prybar go thru the right inspection cover and pry on the control rod to break the valve loose. Don't break the rod use you gourd.

If you have to drop the pump no jack needed in fact a jack impedes the operation. Jack the rear of the tractor up are pull it on car ramps this will give you room to get under it and do the operation.

Unlike the rubber lipped guy I have actually performed this operation I have also got some stuck ones freed up with out major surgery. Does dropping the pump confirm a kill well NO I have had the cleanest of the bunch stick shortly after a rebuild why I dunno other than I went thru the inspection cover freed it up to never have a relapse.

I do not have anything again dropping the pump as I am a pro-pump dropping guy that's likes a clean pump. Just remember every operation you do opens up another can of works its the nature of a 70 year old beast.

Its a whopping 35lbs the lift cover stays on are you a man are a mouse...

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=662899&highlight=ramps
 
I haven't a log prybar that will fit in either inspection hole. And I haven't any ramps to drive the tractor up onto to raise it. I CAN jack it up and put it on stands if necessary. But that's dangerous in the dirt. Guess I'm off to Harbor Freight.

Thanks for that link. My PTO lever has never stayed in postion. I always have to mow with my left foot holding it down and engaged. Might should address that problem when I'm doing the work on the pump..........ya think? :lol:
 
(quoted from post at 09:04:02 07/13/22) I haven't a log prybar that will fit in either inspection hole. And I haven't any ramps to drive the tractor up onto to raise it. I CAN jack it up and put it on stands if necessary. But that's dangerous in the dirt. Guess I'm off to Harbor Freight.

Thanks for that link. My PTO lever has never stayed in postion. I always have to mow with my left foot holding it down and engaged. Might should address that problem when I'm doing the work on the pump..........ya think? :lol:
ontrol arm, rocker and control valves. Another tid bit to keep in your head is that the mechanism that connects touch control lever via shaft eccentric, control arm, etc. to the rocker on the pump only can apply force to push the arm/rocker/intake valve TOWARD the pump. It can not pull those away from pump.....only the spring behind the intake valve provides to force necessary to move same out of and away from pump.
 
Well, it seems it's the intake valve that is stuck. That will be the first thing I address before going to the trouble of dropping the pump.
 
(quoted from post at 09:59:15 07/13/22) Well, it seems it's the intake valve that is stuck. That will be the first thing I address before going to the trouble of dropping the pump.
orrect me if I don't have this correct, but....I believe I remember you saying that you moved the rocker/valves by prying thru the drain hole in bottom of pump?
 
What I indicated was..........With the Hydraulic Touch Control Lever in the down position I can push the rocker lever and control arm towards the rear of the tractor........but not forward. And with the HTCL in full up position I can't move the rocker lever at all. That's why I believe the iintake control valve is stuck. I plan on attacking that first.

Catch you later.........I'm off to a Doc's appointment. (gettin' old and practically live at the Doc's office!)
 
(quoted from post at 10:29:04 07/13/22) What I indicated was..........With the Hydraulic Touch Control Lever in the down position I can push the rocker lever and control arm towards the rear of the tractor........but not forward. And with the HTCL in full up position I can't move the rocker lever at all. That's why I believe the iintake control valve is stuck. I plan on attacking that first.

Catch you later.........I'm off to a Doc's appointment. (gettin' old and practically live at the Doc's office!)
n this picture, you can see the intake control valve protruding from the pump and touching the rocker. This would be the normal relaxed position for valves and rocker. As you move control arm, rocker will/must move with it. If at any point thru the movement, a gap appears (where intake control valve is NOT touching i.e., not in contact with) the rocker, then that would indicate a stuck control valve. If not stuck, valve will always follow the rocker (remain in contact with each other).
bb2gj38.jpg
 
[/quote]ttps://i.imgur.com/bb2gj38.jpg[/img][/quote]

I'm sorry I'm having so much trouble explaining my problem. Happens when one isn't as familiar with tractors as you guys. :lol:

The rocker can be moved toward the rear of the tractor very easily with the control lever in the down position. However it will not actuate the intake control valve when the control lever is in the up position. That's why I'm thinking the valve is stuck.

I've got to install a motorcycle tire right now, but as soon as I can, I'll get back under the trailer to see if I can un-stick the valve.........or at least get some WD-40 in it.
 
(quoted from post at 14:14:36 07/13/22)
n this picture, you can see the intake control valve protruding from the pump and touching the rocker. This would be the normal relaxed position for valves and rocker. As you move control arm, rocker will/must move with it. If at any point thru the movement, a gap appears (where intake control valve is NOT touching i.e., not in contact with) the rocker, then that would indicate a stuck control valve. If not stuck, valve will always follow the rocker (remain in contact with each other).
bb2gj38.jpg
[/quote]e sure to try pushing directly on the rocker or intake valve and not just the control arm
 
Okie-Dokie. I got a pry bar and got the valve to go in.......but it didn't come back out. :shock: I'm going to button everything up and put the oil back in it and go put up my brush hog. Then I'll bring the tractor back up to the shop area and I guess I'll start getting that pump out of there. Since the valve moved, it might go ahead a function when I get everything filled back up. At least I can hope, can't I????? :D
 
(quoted from post at 18:56:27 07/13/22) Okie-Dokie. I got a pry bar and got the valve to go in.......but it didn't come back out. :shock: I'm going to button everything up and put the oil back in it and go put up my brush hog. Then I'll bring the tractor back up to the shop area and I guess I'll start getting that pump out of there. Since the valve moved, it might go ahead a function when I get everything filled back up. At least I can hope, can't I????? :D
ood for you. the valve spool and bushing are shown here & if the ports not plugged with corrosion, rust, whatever, it may lift. Still have to make it move freely to 'hold' and to 'lower'.
AkHAwPg.jpg
 
Well I'll get on it tomorrow afternoon and see what happens. I sure hope I don't have to drop that pump out of the tractor. Seems like it would be a fairly major job..........one I'm definitely not looking forward to.

Thanks for the pics and explanation.
 
Alrighty then! Returned the oil to the tractor. Started the tractor to take the brush hog back to it's resting spot and the minute I fired up the PTO the arms shot clear to the top. :lol: Tried to lower them with the Control Arm, but they stayed up on top. So my guess is I'm going to have to drain the oil once again and drop the pump and either clear the valve or replace it. Unless one of you can suggest an alternat plan. I'd just as soon go kiss a cow as to have to drop this pump. :shock:
 
(quoted from post at 14:33:11 07/14/22) Alrighty then! Returned the oil to the tractor. Started the tractor to take the brush hog back to it's resting spot and the minute I fired up the PTO the arms shot clear to the top. :lol: Tried to lower them with the Control Arm, but they stayed up on top. So my guess is I'm going to have to drain the oil once again and drop the pump and either clear the valve or replace it. Unless one of you can suggest an alternat plan. I'd just as soon go kiss a cow as to have to drop this pump. :shock:
f you can possibly work it with hands & tool (pliers) back and forth enough to loosen it, you may be able to avoid pump removal. How hard did you have to push to move it? Only the spring behind it returns it to 'no lift' position.
 
JMOR, I really have no idea how hard it was to move it.......I was using a 3' bar and it just "popped" and it was all the way in. I rather doubt there's any way to "grab" it and pull it back out. It's like GONE from view. Yup, I figured it was up to the spring to return it to the down position. Must really be gunked up.
 
(quoted from post at 14:44:37 07/14/22) JMOR, I really have no idea how hard it was to move it.......I was using a 3' bar and it just "popped" and it was all the way in. I rather doubt there's any way to "grab" it and pull it back out. It's like GONE from view. Yup, I figured it was up to the spring to return it to the down position. Must really be gunked up.
I thought it might be possible to grasp the smallest tip that contacts the rocker? If you can't do that, even with pump removed, then you will find hole (left with cotter pin) at other end of pump that you should be able to insert small rod/large wire and push it out.
WQDNpql.jpg

ekcFWRC.jpg

qdnxqAO.jpg
 
Wow, thanks for all of that, JMOR. Really appreciate it and really helpful.

Here's what I've decided to do. It's 107 degrees here today. It's been that way for the past 2 weeks and looks as if we're facing the same for at least the next week if not two. I've a ton of things I need to do that don't involve being outside, so.........

I'm going to set this project aside. I can use the tractor as is for at least another month..........or maybe two. I've decided to leave the hard work in the heat to someone a whole lot younger than I. I end up with heat stroke too easily. When the weather starts cooling off I'll start doing all that's necessary to attack this problem. So I'll be back to pester you more...........but it won't be soon.

Appreciate all your help........but I'll more than likely need a whole lot more when I get back to this.

Chris
 
(quoted from post at 17:49:56 07/14/22) Wow, thanks for all of that, JMOR. Really appreciate it and really helpful.

Here's what I've decided to do. It's 107 degrees here today. It's been that way for the past 2 weeks and looks as if we're facing the same for at least the next week if not two. I've a ton of things I need to do that don't involve being outside, so.........

I'm going to set this project aside. I can use the tractor as is for at least another month..........or maybe two. I've decided to leave the hard work in the heat to someone a whole lot younger than I. I end up with heat stroke too easily. When the weather starts cooling off I'll start doing all that's necessary to attack this problem. So I'll be back to pester you more...........but it won't be soon.

Appreciate all your help........but I'll more than likely need a whole lot more when I get back to this.

Chris
think that after it is all said & done, you will look back on it as I have on a number of things that I had to do......the anticipation was worse than the job.. Hope that way for you.
 

If you lift the tractor up so you can get under it well dropping the pump is kids work... The only problem I can think of is if the pump gasket is stuck to the tractor. I have had to use a 2X4 and hit the base of the pump from the top to break the bond : (
 

Well, believe it or not I'm finally back on this project !!!!! Would you believe me if I said I was the world's greatest procrastinator? (it's only been 8 months my tractor has been setting in front of my shop door!) I suffer greatly with ADHD and you'd laugh if you followed me through my day of "rabbit holes" I go down.

Okie-Dokie.............I pulled the PTO shaft and have loosened the bolts needed to drop the hydraulic pump out the bottom. Went to YouTube University and one of the presenters mentioned I'd need to leave the hydraulic engage/disengage lever attached to the tractor because the pump won't come out until I move that lever back and forth. Don't want to get under the tractor and have it get stuck, so is it correct I need to actuate that lever while trying to get the pump out?

Chris
 
"hydraulic engage/disengage lever"
Are you speaking of the Touch control lever or the PTO lever or what?
Actually, I see no need for either to need to be moved, myself.
OK, I will backtrack a little bit & say that maybe the PTO , if in the engaged position, will be a little further away from pump, yielding a bit more clearance for pump to drop. You let rear of pump drop first, then slide rearward to allow it to go behind the PTO assy so that it can drop out. In picture you see the left & right "ears" of the PTO inside the recess of pump rear (just below horizontal black line). Pump must slide rearward enough to clear this part of PTO before it can be lowered.
3PD7fde.jpg


This post was edited by JMOR on 03/28/2023 at 12:18 pm.
 

Thanks for that, JMOR. Sorry about any confusion........I don't know the names for all these parts. It was the lever that engages or disengages the PTO on the left side of the tractor. Regardless, I was able to get the pump out with little or no wiggling.

Here's a picture of the pin that is stuck.

https://chris623.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p1591732623-3.jpg

I thought I could just tap it from the rear and drive it forward. (assuming it's rusted in place) Only there's something on the back side that makes me think it is keeping a spring from coming out that side. How do I get that stuck pink to move forward so I can clean and lube it?
 
The picture with blue background shows what is there, valve spool, spring, spring retainer, and cotter pin. Yes, it would be better to remove cotter pin, spring & retainer before driving spool out as would make for more solid surface to pound on.
 
(quoted from post at 16:45:37 03/28/23)
I believe you are right...........but how do I get that retainer out so I can remove the cotter pin?
f we are talking about this picture, just pull the cotter pin and if not terribly corroded or spring broken, it should be pushed out by spring pressure. If not use hook or wire bent as hook or drive out from opposite end.
qdnxqAO.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 17:06:22 03/28/23)
Can't get to the cotter pin, JMOR. It's clear down inside a hole.
K, I see your point. To have any working space will require some more disassembly I would go back to trying needle nose or pliers on the other end first.
 

No luck with pulling it out. Made myself a round wooden punch with a slot in the end so it would slide over the cotter pin and push on the spring retainer. Was able, with much force, to hammer it out to it's "stop" in the front. However I was expecting it to free up at that point............and it didn't. I know it's supposed to slide freely in it's tube in the housing of the pump.......but it's not budging!!!!! I've tilted the pump up and put some PB-Blaster in it to see if that will dissolve whatever is in there with the plunger. I'm not seeing any way to repair this without a complete tear down of the pump..........and that's not in my wheel house.!!!! Not sure I could ever get it all apart and back together properly.
 
(quoted from post at 18:05:15 03/28/23)
No luck with pulling it out. Made myself a round wooden punch with a slot in the end so it would slide over the cotter pin and push on the spring retainer. Was able, with much force, to hammer it out to it's "stop" in the front. However I was expecting it to free up at that point............and it didn't. I know it's supposed to slide freely in it's tube in the housing of the pump.......but it's not budging!!!!! I've tilted the pump up and put some PB-Blaster in it to see if that will dissolve whatever is in there with the plunger. I'm not seeing any way to repair this without a complete tear down of the pump..........and that's not in my wheel house.!!!! Not sure I could ever get it all apart and back together properly.
assume that by "stop"that you mean the rocker with center pivot and intake on one end and exhaust on the other. That isn't very difficult to remove and then maybe you can get it all the way out. If you have to unscrew overpressure valve to lift rocker up over its pivot pin,that is also no big deal.
 
Well, actually, I just assumed there was a stop on the body of the pump. Turns out that's just as far as the valve would go. I imagine there's something in-between the valve and the valve wall that's captured it. Just watched a video it clearly showed the valve should have just sprung right out the front of the pump housing. I removed the over pressure valve and took the rocker you mentioned off the housing and the valve just won't come out. I'm hoping that whatever the gunk is that's capturing it hasn't scored the barrel. I'll be shocked if this has been caused by gunk because when I took this pump out, there was little to no gunk in the bottom of it. Not really looking forward to it, but I may have to rebuild the pump.
 
(quoted from post at 19:34:09 03/28/23) Well, actually, I just assumed there was a stop on the body of the pump. Turns out that's just as far as the valve would go. I imagine there's something in-between the valve and the valve wall that's captured it. Just watched a video it clearly showed the valve should have just sprung right out the front of the pump housing. I removed the over pressure valve and took the rocker you mentioned off the housing and the valve just won't come out. I'm hoping that whatever the gunk is that's capturing it hasn't scored the barrel. I'll be shocked if this has been caused by gunk because when I took this pump out, there was little to no gunk in the bottom of it. Not really looking forward to it, but I may have to rebuild the pump.
aybe a little back and forth will dislodge?
 
(quoted from post at 06:17:35 03/29/23)
Could be. I'll give that a try tomorrow. I'm done for today.

Thanks for your help.

The bushing the intake valve slides in needs to come out and you will be removing it are be back addressing this issue again. I don't remember ever having a problem driving the bushing out but I am tooled up well to do it.

I will pull a good pump off the shelf tomorrow and see it I can help you with your problem. I had to go back and re-read the post as it sort of lost me.

I remember we got into a post about driving those bushings out but I cannot find it. : (
 

Thanks, Hobo,NC. Much appreciated. When I get home from the gym tomorrow I'll jump back on the project. I'll give the back and forth suggestion a try to see if that frees it up. Didn't think to do that today because I had no idea there wasn't a stop on the inside of the bushing.
 
I cannot see where removing that cotter pin would be an issue. Worst case drive the bushing out from the front side till you can get to it. I am right sure the bushing will come out from either end.

You have a cotter pin, flat washer and a spring the the valve.


mvphoto103886.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 20:45:38 03/28/23)
(quoted from post at 06:17:35 03/29/23)
Could be. I'll give that a try tomorrow. I'm done for today.

Thanks for your help.

The bushing the intake valve slides in needs to come out and you will be removing it are be back addressing this issue again. I don't remember ever having a problem driving the bushing out but I am tooled up well to do it.

I will pull a good pump off the shelf tomorrow and see it I can help you with your problem. I had to go back and re-read the post as it sort of lost me.

I remember we got into a post about driving those bushings out but I cannot find it. : (
s this what you were looking for , Hobo?
removing hyd pump valve bushings
https://forums.yesterdaystractors.c...asc&highlight=valve+bushings&start=30
https://forums.yesterdaystractors.c...asc&highlight=valve+bushings&start=45
 
Okie-Dokie guys, I was victorious. Got the valve out and it looked as if there was indication of where it "grabbed" the bushing. Cleaned up the valve with steel wool and polished it lightly on a buffing wheel with fine paste. Made a valve grinding rod out of wood that I was able to wrap steel wool on and cleaned up the corresponding spot on the valve bushing. Wiped the valve with an oil soaked paper towel and put all of those pieces back the way they were before all of this started and it works flawlessly. I actually managed to do that without ending up with any "extra" parts. It slides perfectly with no wiggle, so I managed to clean it up without removing any metal.

Having completed that satisfactorily, I now need to buy gaskets for the pump, drain cap and plate that retains the PTO. Is there a kit for that, or will I need to order each gasket separately?
 
(quoted from post at 16:11:17 03/29/23) Okie-Dokie guys, I was victorious. Got the valve out and it looked as if there was indication of where it "grabbed" the bushing. Cleaned up the valve with steel wool and polished it lightly on a buffing wheel with fine paste. Made a valve grinding rod out of wood that I was able to wrap steel wool on and cleaned up the corresponding spot on the valve bushing. Wiped the valve with an oil soaked paper towel and put all of those pieces back the way they were before all of this started and it works flawlessly. I actually managed to do that without ending up with any "extra" parts. It slides perfectly with no wiggle, so I managed to clean it up without removing any metal.

Having completed that satisfactorily, I now need to buy gaskets for the pump, drain cap and plate that retains the PTO. Is there a kit for that, or will I need to order each gasket separately?
s long as you are in this deep, I suggest that you verify that the exhaust valve moves freely, as well.
Exhaust spool is very different than intake spool and can be a bit tricky to verify proper free movement of spool itself and not judge on the actuating rod/plunger.
5xRAYl7.jpg
 
It moves freely, JMOR, but thanks for the headsup.

I'm not quite sure which gaskets to purchase. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm looking at the Hydraulic Lift Cover Repair Kit. It looks as if it contains the pump housing to tractor gasket and two gaskets for the inspection ports. I also need the gasket for the PTO shaft retainer........but can't seem to find one listed.

This post was edited by Chris623 on 03/29/2023 at 02:11 pm.
 
YT parts item #113537 has all you need for lift cover, pump, round side covers plus others that you don't need and #109986 is PTO shaft gasket, and #112227 is drain plug gasket.
 
(quoted from post at 17:10:59 03/29/23) YT parts item #113537 has all you need for lift cover, pump, round side covers plus others that you don't need and #109986 is PTO shaft gasket, and #112227 is drain plug gasket.

Thanks for that, JMOR. Now I don't feel so dumb! Those are the exact numbers I put in the YT Cart. I'm going to order them right now. Hope they can arrive quickly. I've got a surgery on the 5th that's going to shut me down for a while.

Thanks again for the help.
 
Al-tho it dose not list the PTO housing gasket Its in the picture. I would wager its in the kit.

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/LCRK928_Hydraulic-Lift-Cover-Repair-Kit_1627.htm

I am not sure the drain plug gasket is in the kit, I will see if I have a kit and check it tomorrow. I work on a N once and awhile so I buy the gaskets in packs of 5 are 10 but keep a kit for a walk in customer.

This post was edited by Hobo,NC on 03/29/2023 at 05:29 pm.
 
(quoted from post at 19:23:25 03/29/23) Al-tho it dose not list the PTO housing gasket Its in the picture. I would wager its in the kit.

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/LCRK928_Hydraulic-Lift-Cover-Repair-Kit_1627.htm

I am not sure the drain plug gasket is in the kit, I will see if I have a kit and check it tomorrow. I work on a N once and awhile so I buy the gaskets in packs of 5 are 10 but keep a kit for a walk in customer.

This post was edited by Hobo,NC on 03/29/2023 at 05:29 pm.

Yup, I got all of that taken care of. Thanks. I ordered 2 drain plub gaskets in addition to the kit. I didn't see the PTO gasket in the kit, so ordered it. The gaskets weren't expensive at all...................but it cost more to ship them than the purchase order!!!!! Oh well.
 
(quoted from post at 20:34:42 03/29/23)
(quoted from post at 19:23:25 03/29/23) Al-tho it dose not list the PTO housing gasket Its in the picture. I would wager its in the kit.

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/LCRK928_Hydraulic-Lift-Cover-Repair-Kit_1627.htm

I am not sure the drain plug gasket is in the kit, I will see if I have a kit and check it tomorrow. I work on a N once and awhile so I buy the gaskets in packs of 5 are 10 but keep a kit for a walk in customer.

This post was edited by Hobo,NC on 03/29/2023 at 05:29 pm.

Yup, I got all of that taken care of. Thanks. I ordered 2 drain plub gaskets in addition to the kit. I didn't see the PTO gasket in the kit, so ordered it. The gaskets weren't expensive at all...................but it cost more to ship them than the purchase order!!!!! Oh well.
hipping is a killer! Recently ordered a contractor for A/C and it was$13 and shipping $16. Amazon prime is way to go IF they have what you need. Free shipping.
 

I know what you mean. I've been a Prime user for years. Do most of my on-line purchasing through Amazon. But YT isn't on Amazon, so I ordered straight from them.

On a side note: I sure hope the gaskets get here quick. I've got a surgery on the 5th that's going to limit me for quite a while and I'd like to get this tractor buttoned up ASAP.
 


mvphoto103930.jpg


This kit has the PTO gasket, the two black parts are for updating the lift piston to use an O-ring (O-ring and leather backer washer). You would need to order a O-ring style lift piston for that up-grade are have access to a lathe to cut a grove for the o-ring and backer.

As far as ordering parts I always have things like drain plug gaskets, fuel bowl gaskets and screens, engine drain plug gaskets, inspection cover and axle etc in my future notes. You can't have to many of'em on hand. None ordered in packs of 5 will break you and the show must go on.

And the last thing you want to do is pay me lawyer money to cut out a 10 cent gasket. : )
 

Yup. Will be putting unused portion of that packet of gaskets in my Ford tractor binder for future needs. Should have ordered them the minute I parked the tractor 8 months ago so I didn't have to wait on them as I'm having to now. DUH!!!
 
(quoted from post at 07:50:08 03/30/23)
Yup. Will be putting unused portion of that packet of gaskets in my Ford tractor binder for future needs. Should have ordered them the minute I parked the tractor 8 months ago so I didn't have to wait on them as I'm having to now. DUH!!!

Well the bugles blew, the clowds parted and my gaskets were delivered today. Too busy to do anything but verify the contents today. Tomorrow morning is my surgery and I'll not be under the tractor for a week or two. But at least I've the gaskets in hand. Happy days! :D
 

Don't know if anyone will pick this up with the thread being so old. Had a motorcycle April 4th. I'm on the mend, but at my age, mending takes a lot longer than it did 50 to 60 years ago. I've got all the gaskets for this pump repair setting on my work bench. I'm getting mighty close to installing the pump to check and see if it works.

Do I need to put any kind of "liquid" gasket material (like from a tube) on the gasket before I install it?
 

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