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What to do about a engine rebuild

2

2nb

Member
I have a newly-acquired 2n that has blowby. I'm getting exhaust gas out the filler cap and oil spitting out the exhaust, as well as what sounds like rod knock.

I've tried soaking the rings with seafoam in the cylinders and changing the oil and running it hard. It's 2/3 better but still is not adequate. When I changed the oil I found what looks like a piece of piston ring, so I suspect that my rings aren't just stuck.

This looks like a rebuild scenario.

I'm pretty handy, and have done a lot of engine work on cars, but my concern is if I try to DIY it and screw up something I will be out the time and cost only to turn around and send it to a shop. I think I'd rather pay to have it rebuilt so I can worry about other things.

How much am I looking at having to pay and how should I go about getting it rebuilt? I'm in a rural community and there are tractor shops here, so I think I can probably find a local place to do that work. Should I go that route or is there a place online that sells turnkey rebuild motors that will ship me a long block on a pallet for a decent price?
 
Probably be cheaper and quicker to get another 2n and use the one you have for parts. Just make sure you get one with a good engine. That said I overhauled a 8N and few years ago and it was fairly easy and fun to do.
 
(quoted from post at 13:29:43 09/25/22) Probably be cheaper and quicker to get another 2n and use the one you have for parts. Just make sure you get one with a good engine.
Click to expand...

This is sound advice. I regret buying a 2n that needed work, and have since seen several much nicer tractors go for less than I've already spent.

What's done is done though.

Fortunately the tractor has some pros in its corner. Basically zero rust, this thing was stored in a climate-controlled space. Most fasteners spin right off, 12v conversion already done, great tires. Look I'm in this thing one way or another. I'm not going to find another one in better shape overall. Aside from the engine issues it runs and drives great. PTO/hydraulics work.

(Well since your just down the road, come on by and we can see what I can do for you.
Click to expand...

What?
 
Drop off, pick it up price
Parts, labor, machine work
Rebuild carb
Rebuild governor
New tune up, belts, fluids, etc
New clutch kit
3K -- 4K
If nothing major out of the ordinary
 
If you have done engine work on cars then this is no different. Problem for most people is you are going to need machine shop at some point. If you pull it out and deliver it you should be able to find someone to rebuild for about $2000 including parts. This is assuming your block and crank are good. You of course will have additional cost of clutch, etc. Yes that is more than the tractor is worth but if you are going to keep it is what it is unless you want to do all the work and take in block, crank, etc for machining. Just buying another one is no guarantee you will get a good one. Sure lots of folks do but you never know. If you get this one rebuilt you know what you have,
 
Kubota might still have zero financing 84 months on most models.
I started with a L2501, sold that with a 4 way bucket and backhoe. Then I picked up an MX5400 and just got the backhoe for that last week.
As for old machinery, I have a few of those around here also. Do an engine rebuild and you will have that machine for a very long time.
As for the clutch, new disc does not have the copper/zinc content of disc from old days and is prone to freezing in place.
You can either hold the pedal down with a length of wood or a 'C' clamp. Too hard? Then a Kevlar disc is in order. More money, less oil
resistance and does not like to be feathered during operation. Release it and go.
 
Welcome aboard! You have to assess your needs and what you intend to use the tractor for. A good shop will tell you if the block is OK to rebuild. Rebuilt short blocks pop up often on auction sites and ads forums. If you want to keep the 2N, the first thing I advise you do is get copies of the ESSENTIAL MANUALS and don't start buying any new parts. ALL 9N's after s/n 12500 til end of 2N production in 1946 are basically the same. There is a ton of info you need to know and understand B4 tearing into these old FORDS. You need to know if your electrical system is the OEM 6V/POS GRN setup or has it been switched out to 12V, but either way, if it is wired correctly. Front Mount Distributor is a mystery to some. Old worn engines can be rebuilt, did you do a compression test? Is the oil pressure low or dropping after it gets hot at idle? Best to get the block stripped down and take to a good shop who knows vintage FORDS. He will boil it and inspect for cracks and advise from there. I can offer you many more important details and send you copies of a few manuals if you need them - my email is open.

FORD 9N/2N ESSENTIAL OWNER/OPERATOR/PARTS/SERVICE MANUALS:
i2gbSeoh.jpg

Tim Daley(MI)
 
Suggest you make up a task list from service manual . That will include a estimate of cost , Dont Skip over anything because of cost.

I would have the radiator flushed and pressure tested .

I would also remove all soft plugs from engine block before the block is cleaned and inspected.

Real cost numbers and time required will double and triple , so dont get discouraged ,they do.
 
(quoted from post at 18:16:16 09/25/22)
(quoted from post at 13:29:43 09/25/22) Probably be cheaper and quicker to get another 2n and use the one you have for parts. Just make sure you get one with a good engine.
Click to expand...

This is sound advice. I regret buying a 2n that needed work, and have since seen several much nicer tractors go for less than I've already spent.

What's done is done though.

Fortunately the tractor has some pros in its corner. Basically zero rust, this thing was stored in a climate-controlled space. Most fasteners spin right off, 12v conversion already done, great tires. Look I'm in this thing one way or another. I'm not going to find another one in better shape overall. Aside from the engine issues it runs and drives great. PTO/hydraulics work.

(Well since your just down the road, come on by and we can see what I can do for you.
Click to expand...

What?
Click to expand...

If you want it done right you will spend $2k or more. Probably considerably more. Sounds like you are committed so find a good machine shop.

TOH
 
I was thinking 2k. So I think I am in the ballpark.

I do not want a tractor overhaul to be clear. I don't need coolant changed and clutch work done. I can do all of those things.

I want a motor rebuild or turnkey motor. That's it.
 
(quoted from post at 16:59:53 09/26/22) I was thinking 2k. So I think I am in the ballpark.

I do not want a tractor overhaul to be clear. I don't need coolant changed and clutch work done. I can do all of those things.

I want a motor rebuild or turnkey motor. That's it.
Click to expand...

I'd talk with the machine shops in the area. See if any have done Ns. Do they want a complete motor to start with minus peripherals, or can you save some by having it, clean, apart and well organized? Shops don't want a block and boxes full of parts.

If you can measure stuff accurately you'll also have a handle on what parts will be needed and machine work.

Think about getting the flywheel turned at same time.
 

You say I can do it then say I am skeered...

Money can fix that : ) all in said and done it still gonna be a if you are lucky $2K 2N...

Big question is it worth more dead than alive. (consider how much it cost to make it alive again)

I like folks that can bless their tractor (with their bill fold)

I am not condoning you I have blessed tractors with my bill fold and never looked back. : ) I can do it and never skeered its was my continuing education. What was the point of all of this I enjoyed every bit of it to prove I could. That's why we do it.

That being said add at least 1K to the 2K you may still be 1K short to get the other support system up to par.
 
The trick isn't just to get it done; but get it done right.
My advice is to watch the entire process done by someone that really seeks to get it done right even though you are hiring out.
That way you go into the project fuly informed .
I highly recommend these videos, start to finish.
Jason is very picky (like me) and does fine work.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auIJZrt3emU
 

My 8n didn't even run when I got it. Now I'm finding out the engine has lots of wear. I recently retired so I'm having fun with it. I does take some time. Parts are very reasonable and a tractor is easy to work on. The guys on this forum can answer all questions. Just my take on it.
 
(quoted from post at 20:59:53 09/26/22) I was thinking 2k. So I think I am in the ballpark.

I do not want a tractor overhaul to be clear. I don't need coolant changed and clutch work done. I can do all of those things.

I want a motor rebuild or turnkey motor. That's it.
Click to expand...

the issues with your tractor sound almost identical to mine - 47 2n, bad compression, lots of blowby, and a broken ring too. what i did have was 20 PSI oil pressure hot and no rod knock. i chose to do an in-frame rebuild - didn't drop the crank. i'm no pro, but i had help more experienced than i, and there's so much less to screw up if u leave the crank in :)

i ended up spending about $500 on it, and all is well now. if u could determine that the rod knock was actually something else, e.g. an exhaust leak from the back of the manifold...

i got that exhaust leak myself a few years later. it's a popular malady on these.
 
I have seen a lot of guys come through here
and do what you are thinking about doing.
I starts with an engine overhaul. And a
clutch. Then tires. And paint. And a few
odds and ends and knick knacks for it.
And the next thing you know they have a
substantial pile of money in it.
And it is still a tractor with no live
hydraulics, no power steering, no live or
independent PTO and in your case, not even
a real drawbar and no position control.
It is fun - don't get me wrong. And it
beats spending your money at the bar or on
gambling, season tickets to the Vikings,
wild women or dope.
But if you are looking for a good, useable
tractor - one that will do more and do it
easier then cut your losses now, sell your
tractor to someone else and buy a newer,
better one.
If you like the old Fords look for a mid
1950s to mid 1970s model 600, 800,
2000,3000,4000. That will put you way ahead
of the game - both tractorwise and
moneywise.
I started with a 2N that my father left me
and used it as a stepping stone to get a
better tractor. Looking back I am SO glad I
didn't get caught up in the restoration
craze on that 2N.
 
(quoted from post at 12:04:15 09/27/22) ... it beats spending your money at the bar or on
gambling, season tickets to the Vikings,
wild women or dope.
Click to expand...

Thats right, and I don't do any of that.
And even more important; I don't concern myself with keeping up with the Jones's.
I really do enjoy the sound, feel and simplicity of the 2N.
I certainly do have new, larger equipment, but that has nothing to do with anything.
After the TREMENDOS amount of work our 2N has performed over the past decades, reliably and inexpensively, I'm happy to spend a few bucks when necessary to keep the ball rolling.
 
(quoted from post at 18:12:05 09/27/22)
(quoted from post at 12:04:15 09/27/22) ... it beats spending your money at the bar or on
gambling, season tickets to the Vikings,
wild women or dope.
Click to expand...

Thats right, and I don't do any of that.
And even more important; I don't concern myself with keeping up with the Jones's.
I really do enjoy the sound, feel and simplicity of the 2N.
I certainly do have new, larger equipment, but that has nothing to do with anything.
After the TREMENDOS amount of work our 2N has performed over the past decades, reliably and inexpensively, I'm happy to spend a few bucks when necessary to keep the ball rolling.
Click to expand...

I agree with you Harry,economy,durability,simplicity,quality,flexibility,drive ability., Just a hard working light weight piece of equipment.A 83 year old design that is still running and earning it's keep.How many 2022 compact tractors will still be running 80 years from now.It was the first thing I learned to drive back in the early 50s and I am still driving that ONE.Sure there are more gadgets on the new ones,but that is more stuff to cause problems and failures.
And if 2NB fixes his correctly it will still be going 60 years or more if it is properly maintained.
That is if you will still be able to by gasoline for it,may have to convert to run Hydrogen. :lol: :lol:

This post was edited by Den N Ms on 09/27/2022 at 07:41 pm.
 
Harry and Den,
I did not say Ns are bad so no need to get
defensive.
I did say the tractors I mentioned in my
earlier post are better. Do you disagree?
$2K for an engine overhaul was quoted a
couple of times. I think that is about
right if he has it done for him.
Let's say 2nb paid $1500 for his tractor.
Now he is considering $2000 for an engine
overhaul.
$3500 is already into the low end range of
one of the other models.
Will his 2N need another $500 for 'this and
that'?
$4000 puts him well into the range of a
newer model.
So his choice (if he has $4K) is to spend
it on a 2N which lacks features and options
or sell it and spend $4K for a tractor
which does have features and options.
To me it is a no brainer which way he
should go.
Of course, since 2nb is a new user, we know
nothing about his tastes and lifestyle.
He might be a guy who Loves football, wild
women and dope. If that is the case I would
advise him to follow his dreams and settle
for a smokey tractor.
 
(quoted from post at 15:33:50 09/25/22) I have a newly-acquired 2n that has blowby. I'm getting exhaust gas out the filler cap and oil spitting out the exhaust, as well as what sounds like rod knock.

I've tried soaking the rings with seafoam in the cylinders and changing the oil and running it hard. It's 2/3 better but still is not adequate. When I changed the oil I found what looks like a piece of piston ring, so I suspect that my rings aren't just stuck.

This looks like a rebuild scenario.

I'm pretty handy, and have done a lot of engine work on cars, but my concern is if I try to DIY it and screw up something I will be out the time and cost only to turn around and send it to a shop. I think I'd rather pay to have it rebuilt so I can worry about other things.

How much am I looking at having to pay and how should I go about getting it rebuilt? I'm in a rural community and there are tractor shops here, so I think I can probably find a local place to do that work. Should I go that route or is there a place online that sells turnkey rebuild motors that will ship me a long block on a pallet for a decent price?
Click to expand...

I know zero abbout this guy. Ya pays your money and ya takes your chances:

Rebuilt 8N engines

TOH

This post was edited by TheOldHokie on 09/28/2022 at 08:06 am.
 
(quoted from post at 04:41:42 09/28/22) Harry and Den,
I did not say Ns are bad so no need to get
defensive.
I did say the tractors I mentioned in my
earlier post are better. Do you disagree?
$2K for an engine overhaul was quoted a
couple of times. I think that is about
right if he has it done for him.
Let's say 2nb paid $1500 for his tractor.
Now he is considering $2000 for an engine
overhaul.
$3500 is already into the low end range of
one of the other models.
Will his 2N need another $500 for 'this and
that'?
$4000 puts him well into the range of a
newer model.
So his choice (if he has $4K) is to spend
it on a 2N which lacks features and options
or sell it and spend $4K for a tractor
which does have features and options.
To me it is a no brainer which way he
should go.
Of course, since 2nb is a new user, we know
nothing about his tastes and lifestyle.
He might be a guy who Loves football, wild
women and dope. If that is the case I would
advise him to follow his dreams and settle
for a smokey tractor.
Click to expand...

I arrived at this conclusion already. That said, I have absolutely fallen in love with the tractor, so I'm keeping it. I barely need one at all, and it will mostly get used for some trail work and mild brush clearing. If I had serious work to be done I would abandon this project.

Your pricing estimates falls in line with what I had estimated, and I'm okay with it.

Of course, since 2nb is a new user, we know
nothing about his tastes and lifestyle.
He might be a guy who Loves football, wild
women and dope. If that is the case I would
advise him to follow his dreams and settle
for a smokey tractor.
Click to expand...

I like 2/3 of those things.

I know zero abbout this guy. Ya pays your money and ya takes your chances:
Click to expand...

I had actually seen these guys already. While the price is a bit high, for the convenience of having a motor shipped to my door on a pallet, I think it might be worthwhile. I don't have a truck so just physically moving engines around is a big inconvenience.

My plan right now is to refresh as much non-engine stuff as possible. This will give me time to save up funds and also keep up momentum on the project. I'll target getting the motor done in the spring.

So far I've changed the oil, started working through the wiring harness, replaced the steering wheel, gauges, and choke knob, the leveling rod on the hitch was snapped so I welded that up.

I've got a nice stack of parts to put on: new hood, radiator hoses and thermostat, shift boot, new exhaust system, manifold, and carb, and a few other ancillary things. Since the tractor still runs, I'm going to keep it in running condition as I work through everything outside of the engine, again to keep momentum up.

Can I just say, how great it is that I can work on basically the entire tractor with nothing but vice grips? I'm used to working on modern BMW cars and this thing is an absolute dream to wrench on.
 
"I have absolutely fallen in love with the tractor, so I'm keeping it."

We bought our 2N in 1987 and I feel exactly as you do to this day!!!
I hope you have as much fun and enjoyment as we have, and will continue to have for the rest of our years with our trusty 2N!!
 
I was just giving you another opinion. One
that kinda goes against the grain here but
a legitimate opinion nonetheless.
The choice is yours to make and I hope you
have some fun with it. Old tractors are
neat to work on and hearing one fire up for
the first time after an overhaul is a true
pleasure in life.
 
I wouldn't replace the carburetor, what you buy today as a replacement is usually buying a problem. If your old carburetor is an original, I'd rebuild it. Same with the manifold if it's not broke leave it alone.
 
Keeping an old N tractor going is kind of like keeping a Model A or T going. They don't have defrosters or maybe heaters or A.C. They don't go fast, no power steering, no automatic transmission etc. But folks still keep them running for the fun of it.
 
Question: Is there a big problem if I just run a generic pod air filter? My whole intake assembly is kinda trashed and I'd rather save money and just fabricate something.
 
(quoted from post at 16:14:13 09/30/22) Question: Is there a big problem if I just run a generic pod air filter? My whole intake assembly is kinda trashed and I'd rather save money and just fabricate something.
Click to expand...

Pandora - I told you not to open that box!!!!!

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 13:14:13 09/30/22) Question: Is there a big problem if I just run a generic pod air filter? My whole intake assembly is kinda trashed and I'd rather save money and just fabricate something.
Click to expand...

The original filters work real good and are easy to maintain. You might be able to find a good used one. Ask people here if they've got one?
 
(quoted from post at 15:47:39 09/30/22)
(quoted from post at 13:14:13 09/30/22) Question: Is there a big problem if I just run a generic pod air filter? My whole intake assembly is kinda trashed and I'd rather save money and just fabricate something.
Click to expand...

The original filters work real good and are easy to maintain. You might be able to find a good used one. Ask people here if they've got one?
Click to expand...

Checks out. Okay:

"Does anyone here have an intact intake system that I can use to refurb at a reasonable price, under the threat of treating this tractor like a thrashed Kawasaki bike? This is a threat"
 
Not sure of your location but there are tractor wrecking yards all over the place in Oregon and they have always been VERY reasonably priced for me. You might look into that and may actually find helpful resources along the way.
When I bought our 8N ("The Junk Pile"), someone had obviously removed the top cover and bent the cast linkages. All of them! A certain yard loaned me the cast linkage parts so that I could heat and return my parts to match. Other than gaskets the repair was free.
You might also attend some local AG shows this fall where they often display antique tractors. I have made some very valuable contacts there.
 
New question. I pressure washed the tractor today and now it won't start. 99% sure I got water in the distributor. What's the basic cliffs notes for removing it? Do I need to pull the hood?

EDIT: Nevermind, it finally dried out and now it starts back up.

NEW QUESTION: When I got it the 1-wire 12v alternator was disconnected. I got a new ammeter and hooked it up:

alternator -> ammeter -> 12V+

Now at half throttle I'm showing 30amps charging, and it goes off the scale if I throttle up. Is because my battery is low and drawing more angry pixies, or do I need to adjust the alternator?

This post was edited by 2nb on 10/02/2022 at 01:55 pm.
 
(quoted from post at 16:44:29 10/02/22) New question. I pressure washed the tractor today and now it won't start. 99% sure I got water in the distributor. What's the basic cliffs notes for removing it? Do I need to pull the hood?

EDIT: Nevermind, it finally dried out and now it starts back up.

NEW QUESTION: When I got it the 1-wire 12v alternator was disconnected. I got a new ammeter and hooked it up:

alternator -> ammeter -> 12V+

Now at half throttle I'm showing 30amps charging, and it goes off the scale if I throttle up. Is because my battery is low and drawing more angry pixies, or do I need to adjust the alternator?

This post was edited by 2nb on 10/02/2022 at 01:55 pm.
Click to expand...

Your alternator is self regulating.and charges based on the voltage at the battery. It thinks your battery is heavily discharged and is charging accordingly. The ammeter was sized for a wimpy generator that struggled to produce 15A and cannot register the full charge rate of a modern alternator. Charge indication should drop back to mid scale as soon as the battery gets closer to full charge.

TOH
 
Your alternator is self regulating.and charges based on the voltage at the battery. It thinks your battery is heavily discharged and is charging accordingly. The ammeter was sized for a wimpy generator that struggled to produce 15A and cannot register the full charge rate of a modern alternator. Charge indication should drop back to mid scale as soon as the battery gets closer to full charge.

TOH
Click to expand...

Okay cool. I was kind of thinking it was just reacting to a low battery. I spent half the afternoon cranking the starter trying to get it going.
 

All is a good assumption.

When diagnosing a 12V charging system you need to record the voltage reading.

Under your conditions If 13.5V to 14.7V you are good to go. Some voltage regulators will get into the very low 15V. (15.2) You normally see this on an ambulance are marine application. Those ae heavy loaded systems so on a tractor 14.7 is tops I would moniture it closely if it went above 14.7.
 
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