Discovery and R&R

I was going to call this thread "ran when parked" but... anyway... Here we go.

I got this 52ish 8N a while ago to do more or less one job, that is to turn compost and clean off the cows feeding station. Pretty simple straight line in-out up down work. It should do well.

But first, it needs some new parts and work to get it up to good working condition. I have gleened a great deal of knowledge from all you guys just reading, (I'm about 400 pages in...a long way to go) and so far you all have given me some great advice and tips. Thanks!

This old thing needs a whole new wiring job, it doesn't charge the battery, amp meter is dead, some of its been spliced and repaired and so, since it has to be an almost daily use tractor, I'm just going to make it as new as possible where possible. I have a new 12v conversion kit, even though it was already converted it probably isnt done right (it has a resistor it shouldn't, but it runs good... ) so.. all new stuff standing by. I removed all the plugs today, they came out pretty easy, all were evenly worn, and clean. As rusted as they were I was ready for a fight but.. nope.

Other than the rusty spark plugs, there is no rust on the engine. I got the hood off despite the loader. I don't plan on putting it back on its rusty and in my way so..I'll fabricate a more loader friendly hood.



I dropped the air filter cup, looks like clean oil and no gunk in the bottom. I'll see later if the upper cans mesh is good later. But this was good... someone was maintaining this old thing before it was parked out in the field I got it from.



The fuel tank inside is very clean, the bowl upper screen as you see... pretty spotless. The valve is stiff but it has a new cork ring and screen in it. Again, someone was maintaining it so it appears.



I discovered the origin of the new radiator... lol.



I drove it about 1000 feed down a driveway (a steep gravel one, that was fun...) and it pulled itself up on a trailer, and back off it and to its current parking spot. So... if it doesn't run or work right when I'm done, "it ran when parked" is what I'll tell myself along with "what did you put back together wrong?"

It needs the main sump drained and refilled, it has some water contamination in there from sitting. Needs an engine oil change, its kinda dirty on the stick. New oil filter, clean the filter tank out... new plugs and wires.. Not sure what type of wires is correct for the system so if you guys know, (im sure ya do) point me in the right direction.

Since it was running fine, I'm not touching the distributor or carb. It started easy, it pulled strong, the governor worked perfectly fine. With some luck this will be a painless repair and refit job.

I found this tractor sitting in some guys field, they were using it to grade the driveway a few times a yr. They put the wagner loader on it a few yrs ago to lift roofing material up to the roof on his house. So it has not been used as a loader its whole life, which I took as a good sign, its not beat up from yrs of doing that. They got it with the property yrs ago, and by the look of the land, all it could have been used for was mowing or grading.... it was a pretty hilly rough property.

The loader is a WM3 on the tag. The controller valve leaks, but only where the spool exits the case so... I'm hoping thats just an O ring or 2. The lift cylinder on the left leaks, but the gland nut is cranked in all the way so I assume the V packing is crushed down to nothing. The right cylinder is dry and the gland nut is backed out a good way, so, My guess is that packing is either new or in good shape, by the pipe wrench bites on it, I'm going to say someone recently repacked that one.

Does it lift? Who knows. It goes up and down, whines and bit, I'm sure its low on oil. I'm gonna drain and replace that too. The pump drips a little around the shaft, but I'll put a drip pan under it and take my chances... its an acceptable drip.

Along the way I'll run a compression test and snake my 2 lense bore scope into the cylinders and take some pics. I should be able to get a good view of the valves. Lets hope its all nice and clean in there.

If you guys spot me doing something stupid, please do point it out. I've never dug into an 8N before. Looks like a beautifully simple machine.

More to come as I dig deeper. So far it looks like a good one.

and it ran when parked... LOL

This post was edited by Nyquil Junkie on 09/10/2022 at 09:04 am.

Also it looks like it has the right thermostat in the correct place with a band on it in the right place. More good signs it was at least properly maintained by somebody.

Nice post.
Kinda reads like an epistolary.
I think you are on the right track. Figure
out what it needs and just fix Those
things.
Then USE it.
Have seem many guys here buy one, tear it
down completely, fix a lot of things that
don't need fixing and kind of get lost in
the project or have way too much $ in it.
I purposely avoid buying stuff from China
if I can tho sometimes things aren't built
anywhere else now.
Was a little surprise to see this tag on a
radiator from a tractor I parted out. From
CNH no less.
It was about as heavy as the original but
banged up one I replaced in a tractor I was
building so I used it.
I don't mind Korean stuff. They make some
fine machine tools and are not our avowed
enemies.

I don't know why you say you got the hood off "despite the loader", and then you don't plan on putting it back on?

I've only had the hood off my 8N one time in 20 some years of having it. If I recall, it was really no problem on removal or re-install. If I remember right, I just ran the loader up as high as it would go and blocked it up good so it was out of the way. I used an empty 50 gallon drum under the bucket with some wood blocks and it held the loader up out of the way just fine.

As for the spark plug wires, you will have to open the distributor to see if it has conventional points or an E.I. With points you will want copper core wire, with the E.I. they recommend resistance wire I believe.

Then USE it.

Click to expand...

Thats why we bought it... were gonna use the stuffing out of it. :lol:

I don't know why you say you got the hood off "despite the loader", and then you don't plan on putting it back on?

I've only had the hood off my 8N one time in 20 some years of having it. If I recall, it was really no problem on removal or re-install. If I remember right, I just ran the loader up as high as it would go and blocked it up good so it was out of the way. I used an empty 50 gallon drum under the bucket with some wood blocks and it held the loader up out of the way just fine.

Click to expand...

It has a wagner wm3 jungle jim loader on it. The hood is trapped in there by the loader frame, raising the arms wont do much but make it harder to get out. I had to remove the doglegs (no easy job.) and then the hood did come out fairly easy.

After of course disconnecting the fuel line, draining the gas, removing the valve so it dont get broken. Then Im the only one here to do the job and I have to lift the hood/tank out and off while standing on the front of the loader.. with a bad back... ugh. You get the picture.

I don't want to spend an hour putting it back and then another hour taking it back off if needed, its a headache avoidance thing. I have no need for originality, I need it to be easy to maintain and everything easy to reach.

This post was edited by Nyquil Junkie on 09/10/2022 at 07:51 pm.

Ok, I see your point. I didn't realize it was one of those jungle jim loaders.

As Ultradog said,fix the things that are bad,clean up the rest. Last year,I had to go into mine for an oil
pump rebuild. It had good compression,about 105-110 psi on all cylinders. I checked the clearance for the
bearings,which were very good,had the pump rebuilt,adjusted the valves,and put it together without spending
the life savings. It runs well now and has good power and reliability. These are not high performance
engines,but were made to be repaired in the field by Farmers.

It was a toss up around here, to shell out 10k for a used machine, newer, with a loader to do this job. It came down to "do I need 4wd and diesel?" and "is it repairable cheap and easy?" The more $$$ ones I have looked at HP wise for the size... not much more and some much less than an 8N. I need a lift cap of whatever a scoop of moist compost or manure bedding is, probably nit much more than 500# on a bad day. I have a Wheel horse 520H with a loader on it that will lift #500 easy , (wont drive with it easy but... itll do) but it has no traction or ground clearance. I use that one a lot but its useless when there is even a little mud under it. I have a small skid steer with a 20hp honda engine, underpowered BUT it will carry a round bale and dig like a badger. I use that mostly to run round bales out the feeder... and its pretty worn out (and not repairable for the most part... even if I can find parts for it they are really expensive).

So.. on level ground, needing a 500# lift cap at MAX on a bad day, and the same 20-30HP range Plus the endless supply of cheap parts and tech support...and the dead simple ease of repair, the $1500 8N won over a 5-10K used newer machine.

I found a few nice ones along the way. Almost bought them until I checked into parts availability and costs. The 8n won that contest too.

I'm sure the 8n with that loader will handle about as easy as a drunken cow but... $1500 bucks. I'll live with it.

This post was edited by Nyquil Junkie on 09/11/2022 at 11:24 am.

(quoted from post at 20:08:31 09/10/22)
Ok, I see your point. I didn't realize it was one of those jungle jim loaders.

Click to expand...

It wasnt my first choice in loaders. I was looking for a step thru type on an 8N... but the condition of the tractor and the price tipped the scale.

Off tractor step thru loaders around here run about $500 (old ones, wagners davis ect).

Considering what I was prepared to spend, I'm still ahead of the curve by a mile. Heck... I could get a whole 8n with a better loader for not much more.

8n for the win...

So I popped the cap off the distributor to see whats in there... I'm surprised it ran as well as it did. the rotor tip has been worn back, the carbon ball in the cap is eroded away, and the contacts have been chewed back by the rotor tip. The points look good... they need smoothed off a little but as points go... pretty good shape.

Looks like I will need a cap n rotor as well. It started easy and ran nice even with them in this condition. I'm impressed.

I took the oil filter out to check it....

Is there suppose to be a washer or gasket under this bolt?



Good to see the previous owner used a good brand name filter.



Doesn't look too bad.. Only a little gunk in the bottom of the can. I'll take it all off and give it a good cleaning.



Notice the gasket in the lid... torn up but still didnt leak. I'll put a filter kit on the list.



I removed the old coil, it has a label on it that says "12v, for use with an external resistor". So thats why they had a resistor wired in there. From another posting I'm told its in there wrong but.. its gone now, with a new 12v internal resistor coil installed.



I put in the new ammeter... new terminal block.. I was going to put the new key switch in but out of the bag it feels like a cheap POS, very loose and not much of a click when you switch it on and off. I will just leave the HD toggle switch thats on it for a key.

Also I put the new alternator on, it came with a new mounting bracket but this engine has one on it already so... into the spare parts bin it goes.

New solenoid, and both batter cables. Its coming along pretty good so far.

Yes, there is supposed to be a washer on that bolt on the oil filter cap. You can put a copper washer on it for a seal. Harbor Freight has a box of assorted copper washers for a few bucks.

I didn't notice this one until today...the temp gauge probe is in the side of the block. The books say there is suppose to be a petcock there. Is this probe ok to be here or is that petcock important to be there? I don't think the water probe in that spot is very good if you want to probe the hottest coolant. I read here about drilling the head (not going there) or putting an adapter on the upper rad hose (had one of those in my old truck yrs ago). I will move it there at any rate, the gauge is broken and needs replaced. But then I will have to stick a petcock back in here or...a plug maybe.

What purpose does this petcock serve?

(quoted from post at 23:16:23 09/13/22) I didn't notice this one until today...the temp gauge probe is in the side of the block. The books say there is suppose to be a petcock there. Is this probe ok to be here or is that petcock important to be there? I don't think the water probe in that spot is very good if you want to probe the hottest coolant. I read here about drilling the head (not going there) or putting an adapter on the upper rad hose (had one of those in my old truck yrs ago). I will move it there at any rate, the gauge is broken and needs replaced. But then I will have to stick a petcock back in here or...a plug maybe.

What purpose does this petcock serve?

Click to expand...

it seemed to me it was a way to slowly drain the block partly. i have a plug there now. very happy with my upper hose adapter for the temp gauge sender, and they are available in a variety of pretty anodized colors too

What is the ID of the top rad hose?

A few days ago, I got a decent temp gas tank put on, a new fuel line/valve and filter w/a primer bulb in the line to get the siphon going as needed. Good flow to the end of the line at a pint every 30 seconds. For good measure I took the plug out of the bottom of the carb and....

Nothing. But, it was running when I parked it so how bad can it be. I took the carb off, pulled the plug out and inside the hole was...

Hay. Little bits of hay plugging the holes. :? I cleaned the thing out and good flow comes out of the bowl hole when its back on the engine and the tap is turned on. So far so good.

Today I put in a battery. I rechecked every connection, every wire. Everything is where it should be. The wires, coil cap rotor plugs solenoid alternator ammeter key battery cables... all new. Nothing to worry about right?

Wrong. :lol:

I hooked up the pos post, and as soon as I touched the neg post the engine turned over. :roll:

I checked all the wires again. Everything is exactly like it should be on Jmor's 12v conversion w/ammeter map. I touched the post again. It turned over again. For some reason, in disbelief I did this several times as if by some magic it would work.

Yes I have the clutch pinned down.

So... I checked the start button. Continuity checks good. I took the wire OFF the start button. Touched the neg post w the terminal. The engine rolls over. :x

There is only one wire to the solenoid single post, that goes to the start button. So my guess is the brand new solenoid out of the box is bad.

It has no continuity between the big posts, and continuity between the bat side large post and the small side post. That seems to be right but I dunno what else it could be.

Its a new Tisco 8N11450 solenoid. Probably should have stuck to napa parts.

So do you guys who have had this happen before, ya think thats the problem? (can it actually be something else?)

Oh and on a side note about the high quality of Tisco parts... the new Ammeter is on +10 before you even hook up the battery.

Amazing. :lol:

This post was edited by Nyquil Junkie on 09/23/2022 at 06:43 pm.

I will go get a new solenoid from napa, from what I search here that is part # : ECH ST540.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHST540

The small post on the Tisco solenoid I have is marked "I". The picture on napa online above for #ECHST540 shows the small post marked as "S".

Why is the Tisco sm post marked "I" and the Napa marked "S"? Does that mean the tisco part is wrong? (I assume the Napa part is correct).

There is a whole lot about solenoids I didn't know that I didn't know.

This is the solenoid that was on it to begin with. A 5 post, and all of them were connected to wires going who knows where. The alternator on it was a one post alt. They had a ceramic ballast resistor wired between the coil and the distributor.

I have no idea what the 3rd sm post is on this for or what type solenoid it is..



But that 3rd unthreaded stud was plugged into a red wire, spliced to a green wire spliced to a white wire to make one long multi colored wire. :lol:

But it ran fine. Go figure.

The Napa solenoid fixed it.

https://youtube.com/shorts/pPr2qeR7WZI?feature=share

Runs smooth, battery is charging like it should.

Now to seal up the leaks in the loader and change all the fluids, and it can go to work.

Thanks for all the input and the tons of helpful information here on this forum.... it made the job a lot easier.