Calcium or Antifreeze/water in the tires?

Larrylg

New User
Greetings All, We're "rebooting" a '52 8N that runs well, but has been sitting for quite a while in a garage with rims rusted thru, tires shot, etc. Putting all new tires and rims on it and hope to work it some, but am wondering what the concensus is here on calcium vs antifeeze/water in the tires...if there can be a "concensus" on such a subject!

Thanks! Looking forward to hearing your opinions!
 
Unless your other such thing that needs a lot of traction I'd leave them empty or going to do a lot of plowing use winter grade wiper fluid
 
I have several 8Ns and none have fluid in the tires. An 8N can do a lot of work without adding weight (note Old's post). I have plowed, disc, back bladed,
bush hog etc. all without weight. For plowing snow or heavy loader work - weighting the rears would be helpful. If I were to add fluid to the tires, I would
spend the money and go with Beet juice. Remember, a 11.2x28 tire will hold 225 Lbs of water at a 75% fill. that means removing the wheel for any reason
becomes a dangerous task. Beet juice and Calcium fluids are significantly heavier.
 
I have several 8Ns and none have fluid in the tires. An 8N can do a lot of work without adding weight (note Old's post). I have plowed, disc, back bladed,
bush hogged etc., all without weight. However, for plowing snow or heavy loader work - weighting the rears would be helpful. If I were to add fluid to the
tires, I would spend the money and go with Beet juice. Remember, a 11.2x28 tire will hold 225 Lbs of water at a 75% fill. That means removing the wheel for
any reason becomes a dangerous task. Beet juice and Calcium fluids are significantly heavier than water. Beet juice is claimed to be non-corrosive.
 
(quoted from post at 10:36:33 08/31/22) I have several 8Ns and none have fluid in the tires. An 8N can do a lot of work without adding weight (note Old's post). I have plowed, disc, back bladed,
bush hogged etc., all without weight. However, for plowing snow or heavy loader work - weighting the rears would be helpful. If I were to add fluid to the
tires, I would spend the money and go with Beet juice. Remember, a 11.2x28 tire will hold 225 Lbs of water at a 75% fill. That means removing the wheel for
any reason becomes a dangerous task. Beet juice and Calcium fluids are significantly heavier than water. Beet juice is claimed to be non-corrosive.

Thank-you'all! Some good info! P.S, this tractor would be used in the hills of Western Oregon...lots of clay soil...and moisture.

Now another question, if you're pulling hard, how critical are weights on the front of the 8Ns? This one doesn't have any. Should I.look for some?
 
O.K. I'm also in the Western hills of Oregon and our temps Rarely get below about 14F in the coldest of years and don't stay that cold for long. Most winters don't get much below 24F.
It doesn't take much antifreeze here. We're not expecting -60F !
 
rear weights make a big difference when plowing, discing and back blading snow. Cannot do much on snow without it IMO. One way of doing this is putting fluid in the rear tires which I think is the best method. If you have never had fluid\weight then you do not know the difference.
 
I am up at 1200 feet just off the Columbia River and have seen temps in the single digits.
Frozen is frozen and a cracked block is a cracked block.

CaCl is good for 12.5 pounds per gallon.
Water/antifreeze is good for 8 .35 pounds per gallon.
Beet Juice is good for 10 pounds per gallon. Some tire makers don't like beet juice, it may damage their tires.

8N? Fill your front tires. McCann tires just outside of North Plains can fill them with beet juice.
Need more weight? 1 ton brake rotors with the hubs cut back to slide over the hubs and bolted to the wheels.
 
Listen to Abbby!
My first tractor was a 2N.
I put new tires, tubes and 1 new rim on it.
I had no fluid or weights in the rear.
It was worthless for plowing and discing
and worse for working in snow and ice.
I added wheel weights to it - 225 lbs per
tire. That made a huge difference in what
that tractor could do.
If you read the original Nebraska Test for
an 8N they used 300 lb wheel weights on it
to get 21.6 horsepower out of it at the
drawbar.
They didn't dink around with it with no
ballast.
Why?
Because they were testing the tractor for
maximum effectiveness and without extra
ballast a tractor is not nearly as
effective. It just spins the tires.
Ballasted tires also make a tractor more
stable on side hills or if you run over a
rock or stump. In other words, ballast
makes for a safer tractor.
As for liquid ballast - Washer fluid or
Calcium - I still run Calcium. Because I
got it for free.
If I see any rust forming around the valve
stems I fix it so it doesn't eat up my
rims. It is called maintenance. Something
all tractors need.
 

Used coolant for me I keep 55gal incase I need some to load a tar.
I plan to load one soon one tire is loaded the other is not good used coolant will go in it.

I have had the ballast freeze the tractor was useless what ever you put in it put enough.

Loaded tars I have never had a problem moving them around play safe...
 

I run with CaCl in all the rears. Yes, in my 50 years on the planet, we have had to replace rims as a result. 5 tractors, and we've lost 4 rims to the rust. We're heavy hobbyist level users, and the rock in PA isn't kind to tires, so I just don't get the fear of CaCl that some folks have.

Without weight on/in the rears I find an 8N to be a pig on roller skates unless you're just pulling parade duty, or mowing on the flat. One of the N's also has the over axle weights, which are a nice way to add some pounds. If I didn't want liquid, I'd get a pair of them, and some steel donuts for the rears.

The N series is pretty light up front. If you're picking up much on the 3 point, you may well want weight. We don't fill the fronts. We have iron weights on the wheels to the tune of 100# per wheel. That's just barely enough to keep the nose down if I pick up the 5' brush hog, and steering is very light cresting a hill. I'd put more on if I was still running the hog with the N. The finish mower hasn't been an issue. The 100# per side has been fine otherwise for back blade, 2 bottom plow, or planters.
 
Unless your other such thing that needs a lot of traction I'd leave them empty or going to do a lot of plowing use winter grade wiper fluid

That's what I did for my 640 - made all the difference in the world.

RE58
 
[i:654c4848f0]'Without weight on/in the rears I find
an 8N to be a pig on roller skates unless
you're just pulling parade duty, or mowing
on the flat.'[/i:654c4848f0]

Funny. And true.
 
Beet Juice in the rear and WW fluid in the fronts. I was going to put Beet Juice in all four but the tire shop talked me out of it. I learned real fast that the front end lifts pretty easily so I added the WW fluid to the front myself.
 
It seems the topic on Ca Chl comes up at least once a month and plenty has been written on it -see the archives. But, here goes again...
First, the statement made below, Some tire makers don't like beet juice, it may damage their tires. is untrue, someones opinion, not a fact based statement, and
perpetuated by others not knowing. This is how myths start. Ive read that before years ago on one of these forums but, Ive never SEEN any actual data by any tire
manufacture to back that up. As a matter of fact, after I saw that I did my own research contacting two retail tire dealers, Rim Guard, and a Firestone engineer
personally. They all denied ever making a statement like that and they ALL recommended using Rim Guard/Beet Juice instead of Ca Chl or other substance. It sounds to me
like an opinion made by someone. Somebody wanted to pooh-pooh Rim Guard for whatever reason. Id love to see that intel, if any exists at all. I have my doubts. Show
Me The Data!

Before wheel weights were introduced, FORD recommended to use Calcium Chloride for ballast see the CHART. Ca Chl, water, anti-freeze, windshield washer fluid, all
are/can be corrosive to ferrous metal. Once the tubes develop a leak and the liquid gets exposed to the metal, oxidation is inevitable. Often it is not visible until
too late and usually is shown around the valve stem. I prefer Rim Guard. I am NOT a Rim Guard rep or stockholder, just a satisfied customer. Whatever you want use,
its your tractor, your time and money, and I advise to monitor the rims often for leaks.

Ultradog nailed it. I also highly advise to use ballast in tires too. Without the added ballast weight in rear tires, plowing snow especially, and other tasks becomes
a fighting battle. Adding chains to rear tires also will help in snow too, and if there is ice under the snow, you will only spin the tires without extra help. I've
plowed fields with 2 Bottom plows without added ballast and never had any problems. After I invested in Rim Guard for my rears work tires, plowing, discing,
cultivating, dragging seemed better. I still have the original Beet Juice in my 11.2 x 28 Firestones that I had added on my 8N in the late 1990s when Rim Guard first
came out. Many an OEM Hat Rim has been ruined by Ca Chl and FORD restorers seek good originals for their restoration projects but are getting harder to find a decent
set these days. Some fellas have done their own repairing of the rusted out inside rims and done remarkable work.

I bought a set of the HD Pie Weights for my 8N and used them once. I found them to be intrusive. I use my 8N to mow 10 acres and bush hog 20 acres with and getting
around trees and fences became a chore with them interfering and not allowing to get up and close. Another drawback with pie weights is the hassle to install or remove
them. It is a very time consuming task. If you get a flat tire, you'll spend all day getting all the parts off, the rim with tire removed, and if there is time, to the
tire dealer to get fixed.

Whatever you use, remember that added weight will make handling the wheel and tire difficult so be careful, use your head, and get a helper. Once you drop the rim it
will be awfully hard to get it upright on your own.

FORD TRACTOR TIRE BALLAST INFO & CALCIUM CHLORIDE CHART:
Wl9RpJXl.jpg
No4k9Pyl.jpg

FORD TRACTOR PIE WEIGHTS, RELEASED IN 1954, OPTIONAL ACCESSORY, FOR 600 & 800 MODELS:
DZr6mMxl.jpg
4HMvfPnl.jpg


Tim Daley(MI)
RIM GUARD
 
Local Farmers Co-Op tire shop uses methanol mixed with water to fill tires. I don't remember the percentages use but my tires have been filled with it for years.
 
methanol

8% + 23
10% + 12
20% + 5
25% -5
33% -45

Does not include the wind chill factor.

This post was edited by Hobo,NC on 09/01/2022 at 09:38 am.
 
(quoted from post at 02:10:56 09/01/22)
I run with CaCl in all the rears. Yes, in my 50 years on the planet, we have had to replace rims as a result. 5 tractors, and we've lost 4 rims to the rust. We're heavy hobbyist level users, and the rock in PA isn't kind to tires, so I just don't get the fear of CaCl that some folks have.

Without weight on/in the rears I find an 8N to be a pig on roller skates unless you're just pulling parade duty, or mowing on the flat. One of the N's also has the over axle weights, which are a nice way to add some pounds. If I didn't want liquid, I'd get a pair of them, and some steel donuts for the rears.

The N series is pretty light up front. If you're picking up much on the 3 point, you may well want weight. We don't fill the fronts. We have iron weights on the wheels to the tune of 100# per wheel. That's just barely enough to keep the nose down if I pick up the 5' brush hog, and steering is very light cresting a hill. I'd put more on if I was still running the hog with the N. The finish mower hasn't been an issue. The 100# per side has been fine otherwise for back blade, 2 bottom plow, or planters.

All great information! Thank-you'all! Figured out we have 80 lb wheel weights on the front. Will prob put calcium in the rears. It works out to 176 lbs more than water/antifreeze and 110 lbs more than beet juice. With no cab or roll cage, stability is important...as is pulling efficiency. Thanks again!
 
Rears on my J/D 5203 are loaded with antifreeze. How do I
know, I got shot in the face. Im second owner, PO traded it in
for a cab tractor. Dealer didnt tell me they were loaded but I
didnt ask either. Live and learn.

cvphoto134767.jpg
 
Wind chill factor would have no effect on an inanimate object except to cool that object(s) more quickly but only to the temperature of the air. Only people and animals
are subject to wind chill.
 
Bill, are you sure about that?
I was thinking that wind chill was a major factor with radiator design.
This is why I mentioned that, while one adjusts antifreeze down to -40 in their cooling system, it is not necessary in tires.
Antifreeze dilution needs only to be enough to remain at least slushy at the typically lowest temp in your region.
In Western Oregon, it doesn't take much.
 
(quoted from post at 21:21:32 09/02/22) Bill, are you sure about that?
I was thinking that wind chill was a major factor with radiator design.
This is why I mentioned that, while one adjusts antifreeze down to -40 in their cooling system, it is not necessary in tires.
Antifreeze dilution needs only to be enough to remain at least slushy at the typically lowest temp in your region.
In Western Oregon, it doesn't take much.

https://www.weather.gov/jetstream/chill

The only effect wind chill has on inanimate objects, such as car radiators and water pipes, is to shorten the amount of time for the object to cool. The inanimate object [i:6c942daf88]will not[/i:6c942daf88] cool below the actual air temperature. For example, if the temperature outside is -5F (-21C) and the wind chill temperature is -31F (-35C), then your car's radiator temperature will be no lower than the air temperature of -5F (-21C).
 

Low 20's for a spell are normal around here and can dip into the single digits. Normally we will warm up during the day and can off set freezing temps. I had the tires on my bota freeze solid trying to use the tractor was useless it took a week for them to thaw out. You may well be right : ) my point once they freeze solid you will not get any work out it for days/weeks...

My point.

Once they were thawed out the fluid that came out of them was GREEN I called the dealer and had to ask WTF went wrong. The call was useless once it thawed out I made sure I pumped it with enough use coolant I would not have to deal with frozen tractor tires again.
 

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