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Perplexed and Frustrated

P

Paul L.

Member
Hi All,

Over the 4th of July weekend, on Sunday I flushed the cooling system on my 52 8N, thanks to the guidance from this forum. I replaced the anti-freeze with the "green" anti-freeze. I added a thermostat also, which had never been there since i had the tractor. Also replaced the radiator hoses. At the end of this process, I started it up to bring it up to temp nd circulate the new anti-freeze and to check the fluid level. All was good with the universe!

On Monday, feeling good about how Sunday went, i had to replace the muffler and manifold gasket. I decided to put a new manifold on since i was doing all this maintenance. Well, when I was finished, i tried to start my tractor and nothing. It turns over, but would not run! I checked the spark...that was good. Fuel to the carb, also good. I took the carb apart thinking the float was stuck. Nope, that wasn't it either. If it sat for several minutes, it would fire up but quickly stall out and not start again until sitting.

Going over everything, the only thing left that I can think off is the manifold. Is it possible that the new manifold is causing my issue? I plan to put the old manifold back on just to see what happens. The worse thing is it still wont start, but that's the last thing i can think of that is different from Sunday to Monday.

Does this sound feasible? Can the new manifold cause this issue?

As always, thanks for your help and suggestions.

Paul L
Michigan
 
Not sure where you got the manifold but I heard stories of new manifolds that have some inside ports cast shut. You can probably search on this forum and find the chatter about this.
 
Paul L. ,First is there plenty of gas in the tank, it needs 3 gallons or more?Look in it! Is the gas turned on 2 full turns? Check fuel flow through the carb bowl drain plug,will it fill a pint jar in two minutes.If no check fuel flow out of line disconnected from the carb.Check the sediment bowl screen and screen in the tank.

This post was edited by Den N Ms on 07/06/2022 at 12:28 am.
 
(quoted from post at 21:22:52 07/05/22) Paul L. ,First is there plenty of gas in the tank?Look in it! Is the gas turned on 2 full turns? Check fuel flow through the carb bowl drain plug,will it fill a pint jar in two minutes.If no check fuel flow out of line disconnected from the carb.Check the sediment bowl screen and screen in the tank.
Click to expand...
XACTLY! "to the carb" doesn't count....."thru the carb" does matter. Elbow screen at line to carb interface...check it.
 
After flailing away for many hours on a
tractor with good spark, plenty of gas
( through carb) and no obvious reason
to not run more than a few seconds, we
replaced the condenser, fired up ran
great. Tractor ran great all morning,
stopped for lunch, hour later it would
start and run for a few seconds......
Figured a fuel issue because we had
spark..... Nope, stupid, little,
inexpensive, easy to replace condenser
 

If you get to the point of swapping the manifold its a easy check to eliminate it as a restriction while its still bolted up.

The intake sucks the exhaust blows.

Remove all the spark plugs put one back in spin the engine over it should suck at the carb and blow at the exhaust outlet on each cycle of the piston on that cylinder. All you need is to cover the exhaust outlet with your hand it should pop it off on each cycle.

Remove that plug and move to the next cylinder remember just one spark plug in on each test. Throttle wide open...

Each event should be the same on the exhaust side not one good event then the rest are poor.

This one got me GOOD...

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?p=3341754&highlight=casting#3341754
 
I had a new manifold that was cast incorrectly internally. Turn manifold upside down, hold hands over intake
ports, pour water in the carb mounting port. Water should not come out exhaust ports.
 
Could it be the new manifold?, that's a possibility.
I would first with the fuel shutoff remove the plug at the bottom of the carb. and let it drain the bowl. Then turn the fuel on and measure fuel flow through the carb. Much easier to check than the manifold and should be part of maintenance to check and clean all of the filters.
 


Like Eman85, I like to do things the easy way. After checking for spark, I will pull a plug or two and check for presence of gas. You can tell a lot by looking at plugs and I find that they almost always come out fairly quickly.
 
Here is an update.....Still will not run.

I put the old manifold back on, put a new condenser on, it has 5 gallons of gas in the tank, took the carb apart and cleaned it really well.

The tractor started up and ran for maybe a minute or two, then stalled. After that...it would sputter, or just turn over. I gave up for the night.

Not sure what to even check now.

Paul
 
Not sure if you have done this but but check fuel flow through the carb bowl drain plug by removing the plug and turning the gas on. Will it fill a pint jar in two minutes? If not then check fuel flow out of line disconnected from the carb. Check the sediment bowl screen and screen in the tank.
 
(quoted from post at 03:32:32 07/08/22) Not sure if you have done this but but check fuel flow through the carb bowl drain plug by removing the plug and turning the gas on. Will it fill a pint jar in two minutes? If not then check fuel flow out of line disconnected from the carb. Check the sediment bowl screen and screen in the tank.
Click to expand...


Abby, your suggestion is a good one. It has already been posted twice before you, yet Paul seems to not want to try it.
 
Actually, I tried the fuel flow test tonight. Ok, maybe a little stubborn on somethings...my bad!

Anyway, taking the bolt out of the bottom of the carb the fuel flow filled 3/4 of a quart in 2 minutes. I took the fuel line off the carb and tried the same test and it filled the quart in 1 minute 10 seconds.

That, I think, would indicate the filter going into the carb needs to be replaced. I had cleaned it, or so i thought, several times already, but apparently not good enough. I will get a new one tomorrow and then try the flow again.

Paul
 
The float needle seat area is a small hole so fuel flow is not likely to be your problem. If gas out the drain plug fills a pint jar in 2-3 minutes flow is as good as you need. But that doesn't say that you don't have a clogged main jet passage etc.
 
Paul L. Try this ,put some gas in a bottle with a sprayer on it.Set the throttle to 1/4 open,start it up ,let it run till it starts to cut out then spray some gas into the carb intake to see if you can keep it running with the gas spray.Can you keep it running? If yes then it's a fuel problem,if NO then it is a ignition problem.Post back your results from the test.
 
Den N Ms:

I removed the carb and ran a small wire thru the holes one more time. Put it all back together and back on the tractor. Air Cleaner tube is off right now. Set the throttle to 1/2, and pushed the starter. It fired right up! Ran for about 5 minutes, and acted like it would stall 3 times during that 5 minutes. It recovered before I could spray any gas into the carb. After 5 minutes it stalled. I sprayed gas into the carb, and it would start right up again but then stall out shortly after.

It is showing every sign (to me anyway) that for some reason its not getting fuel where it needs it at the time it needs it. I have a feeling I am missing something simple, but just can't put my finger on it yet.
 
Float or float needle could be sticking in the closed position which would cause that type of problem.
 

You could prove that good spark YOU said you have... You have not proved it to ME are yourself without a doubt...

Back to fuel I use brake clean are propane and can use it to keep it running until the can runs out. Truth be known you can take the carb off as long as you induce fuel it will RUN : )

Your problem and the same problem of some that are trying to help they are as lost as your are...

Stop guessing and start proving life will be good...
 


"It is showing every sign (to me anyway) that for some reason its not getting fuel where it needs it at the time it needs it."



That is an interesting concept. Totally new to me, and I guess way beyond me. Perhaps if you were to tell all these signs instead of your conclusions someone could help you. Your description of what it was doing sounds the same as every carbureted vehicle that I have ever had.
 
It is showing every sign (to me anyway) that for some reason its not getting fuel where it needs it at the time it needs it. I have a feeling I am missing something simple, but just can't put my finger on it yet.

OK, lets go with that theory. If you put a hose fitting in the bottom of the fuel bowl and a piece of clear tubing on it curved upward it will show you the fuel level in the bowl. Run the tractor till it dies and see what that level does.
 
(quoted from post at 12:03:24 07/10/22) It is showing every sign (to me anyway) that for some reason its not getting fuel where it needs it at the time it needs it. I have a feeling I am missing something simple, but just can't put my finger on it yet.

OK, lets go with that theory. If you put a hose fitting in the bottom of the fuel bowl and a piece of clear tubing on it curved upward it will show you the fuel level in the bowl. Run the tractor till it dies and see what that level does.
Click to expand...
img]https://i.imgur.com/CxSqqtO.jpg[/img]
 
(quoted from post at 22:21:27 07/10/22)
(quoted from post at 12:03:24 07/10/22) It is showing every sign (to me anyway) that for some reason its not getting fuel where it needs it at the time it needs it. I have a feeling I am missing something simple, but just can't put my finger on it yet.

OK, lets go with that theory. If you put a hose fitting in the bottom of the fuel bowl and a piece of clear tubing on it curved upward it will show you the fuel level in the bowl. Run the tractor till it dies and see what that level does.
Click to expand...

You must live a good life : )
Click to expand...
 
Well, I got it running! I took the carb apart yet again and went thru it. Reassembled and reattached. Tested the fuel flow as suggested, and that was good. Not sure how to "prove" the spark test to anyone. I have a spark tester and the spark jumped a gap of .2 inches, so I figured that was a good spark.
Replaced the points and the spark plugs, just because i had them and didn't see that it could hurt anything. After a few tries, its started up. Backfired a couple times at full throttle but left it run at half throttle for about 30 minutes. Did some basic adjustments to the carb. Shut it off and let it sit for an hour, then tried it again. It started, and i was able to run it under load for about 1 1/2 hours with the finish mower attached. Still running a bit rough, but its running.

Thanks for all the help this forum has provided. Yes, I was guessing at some things that could be the issue but i guess that how i learn sometimes. I appreciate the patience you all have had! I am still learning how all these systems work together and how one thing possible affects the other.

Thanks again!

Paul
 
I have had a couple carbs where the needle valve fit to tight in the seat that never had the little clip on the needle.They would stick closed and not open.Repaired them by sanding the 3 edges of the needle down some so they would fit into the seat without sticking and then added the little clip to the needle valve.
 
JMOR, that's pretty neat way to visually test the fuel level! I will have to pick up the tube and fitting so I can use that for testing.
 



Paul you have come a long way from "I checked the spark...that was good. Fuel to the carb, also good"
 
(quoted from post at 18:17:27 07/08/22) Actually, I tried the fuel flow test tonight. Ok, maybe a little stubborn on somethings...my bad!

Anyway, taking the bolt out of the bottom of the carb the fuel flow filled 3/4 of a quart in 2 minutes. I took the fuel line off the carb and tried the same test and it filled the quart in 1 minute 10 seconds.

That, I think, would indicate the filter going into the carb needs to be replaced. I had cleaned it, or so i thought, several times already, but apparently not good enough. I will get a new one tomorrow and then try the flow again.

Paul
Click to expand...
It's a wire mesh screen, you can tell if it's clogged by eyeballing it. Spray it out with carb cleaner and air
 
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