clear up questions on Unseizing Ford Jubilee Motor

Ok I realized I seized my motor. My oil pressure was good but I now realize last time I used tractor I was Leaking oil. I did not run out of oil but it ran low. and with that after I shut if off I think the heat seized it up.
Ok I got ATF down there now soaking but going to to Mystery oil and some kerosense too...

But I cannot see to get through the "keyhole" in the front end with a socket to turn crank. Ive read many put in gear to rock it back and forth. but my question is...what gear is best...I read some saying 1st gear and other saying 4th gear to rock it a bit after soaking for a good week or two. What do you suggest???

Any other tricks...Ive heard even with oil / heat seizures they may be able to unstick em. but thats my deal. I didnt even realize stuck at first. I though battery low. but check oil as I usually do before I started and I was down about two quarts or so....and it was full when I used last so it leaked out while I was running it I presume. then after I shut of....she stuck up!!!!

I really love this tractor. would it also help to heat up block to try and expand the metal a bit when I rock it...gentle heat with my torch?????

TIA
 
Youch.

If its still seized after an extended cool-down youre very likely gonna need to tear it apart and rebuild it. Scored cylinders and bearings, or rods, mains and
journals all melted/melded into one solid unit may await you. Try pulling the starter and using a large screwdriver or small prybar with medium pressure on the
ring gear to turn it. If you get lucky and can free it up and get it running, you may now have to bump your oil viscosity up a few weight grades to get the
decibels down to a reasonable level.

Your local Harley Davidson dealer has 70wt. on the shelf...
 

I was thinking that too...if she does free up she will knock like crazy. Im in NY and Really wanted to take this Tractor to S.C. with me as we plan to buy a nice lot down there too...

Damn........Im hoping not melted chuck of alum.......
 
Have you removed the spark plugs? If you check oil every time you start it and it was 2 quarts low this time you should have been covered in oil from the last time you used it. 2 qts of oil leaking out is a major leak! If it seized because of lack of lubrication at the crank I'd say you're not going to save anything short of an engine overhaul.
 
yes removed sparkies...so far I have a bit of atf down there and getting some marvel mys oil.

I agree 2 qts in 30 min of run time is alot......surprised I did not see it.

I was hopeing journals and bearings werent the parts stuck...but yes I fear that may be the possibility. Now to find someone that can do the job as Its too much for me.. and God Knows the cost?!

It cant hurt to try is my logic and this point...and pray.

Come to think of it....does in mean anything that I have a Little bit of movement in the cam?? a 1/4 inch I think...or is that just everything "flexing" from cranking on it. I have been able to get a bar between the main cam nut and the pulley bolt to put a little ooomph on it...and trying to work back and forth....but at this point need to let it sit and "soak".......



This post was edited by 2wheelgnnr on 01/18/2022 at 08:45 am.
 
They are pretty stout little engines, but every engine has its limits! You wont know until you are able to re-start it. You can get lucky and it may sound the
same as before, like it never happened, or it may clatter like a dryer full of Carhartts and you are headed for a rebuild.
 
Sounds like a bad deal, sorry to hear that happened. To answer one of your questions, you want to rock it in 4th gear.
 

its all too bad as I literally just before I used it last I put Electronic Ignition it and it never started better. what a shame.

thanks all...ok 4th gear.......Thanks

it it matters I hit the LIKE button for you all. wish we had one.
 
(quoted from post at 11:23:24 01/18/22) I though battery low. but check oil as I usually do before I started and I was down about two quarts or so....and it was full when I used last so it leaked out while I was running it I presume. then after I shut of....she stuck up!!!
2 quarts low while not good, should not seize an engine by itself. Oil pump?
 

understood and under normal circumstances Id agree but....I have a siezed motor?!. I thoght I had decent Oil pressure when using last. IM always watch that guage...but now it wont spin??

yes 2qts not good but I never ruined any other equipment in my youth or with my log splitter once with that situation......but this time I dont know...starter wont spin it..even with plugs out and I only get 1/4" plan in the cam... maybe some failure between that last I looked at guage and when I shut if off..Im kinda dumbfounded myself. first thought was when it clicked..was damn battery...ok pull out the charger....then I thought about the 2 qts low and said well maybe I got a problem.... took sparkies out tried to spin it and it woudn't so all I can figure is being low on oil did it?!
Im making some assumptions here but...I dont know what else to think....as again I can turn the cam but a 1/4". Im so mad.

thanks for your input.....
 
You've got nothing to lose, can you pull the starter? Any chance the starter is what's locked the motor? I would get to the ring gear and try prying the motor either direction. Make sure it's in neutral and possibly block the clutch when you do it.
 
I really dont think the start is sticking as I hear the the actuator throw...but again..does not hurt anything to ensure I got NO drag by anything else and whether the belt and the alt or a stuck starter.......I will do that all that....elminate any other possibilities...again like we've said..wont hurt anything........

will report back.
 
(quoted from post at 16:43:45 01/18/22) You've got nothing to lose, can you pull the starter? Any chance the starter is what's locked the motor? I would get to the ring gear and try prying the motor either direction. Make sure it's in neutral and possibly block the clutch when you do it.

My worn ring gear has caused a "seized" motor at least twice a year. When a starter gear tooth gets on top of a worn ring gear tooth, it acts exactly like a locked motor. I have to unbolt the starter and pry on it to get it loose. Getting it to loosen can be difficult, but once loose the teeth reposition themselves and it then starts. I have never had to completely remove the starter. Yes, it's time for me to replace the ring gear and starter drive gear.
 
HPOLY MOLY.... I went out when I got home and put some MMO and Kero in cylinder...for giggles as you always hope I hit start and she turned.

spit fluid across garage on my motorcycle so after wiping off bike tried and and nothing again...I still have to remove belt adn starter to verify nothing dragging but she turned a revolution...so put more stuff in the cylinders to sit another day or so...but man...the fact that she turned is awsome..she stuck again but this time with culiner 1 in Top of the stroke so stopped again but in a different area.....so...let soak well for another day or so and I may be able to get her to move...OH my God...Ive got such excitement....

we will see....meanwhile looking at something to keep me from cryin'''

LOL not LOL
 
(quoted from post at 14:55:21 01/18/22)
(quoted from post at 16:43:45 01/18/22) You've got nothing to lose, can you pull the starter? Any chance the starter is what's locked the motor? I would get to the ring gear and try prying the motor either direction. Make sure it's in neutral and possibly block the clutch when you do it.

My worn ring gear has caused a "seized" motor at least twice a year. When a starter gear tooth gets on top of a worn ring gear tooth, it acts exactly like a locked motor. I have to unbolt the starter and pry on it to get it loose. Getting it to loosen can be difficult, but once loose the teeth reposition themselves and it then starts. I have never had to completely remove the starter. Yes, it's time for me to replace the ring gear and starter drive gear.

My old 8n had that issue plus missing teeth. Had to split it and put new ring gear and bendix for good measure.
 
Careful adding oil in the cylinders a little should lube the cylinder if it is dry. You are okay as long as the spark plugs are out but you don't want the cylinder/combustion chamber full of oil when you crank it with the plugs in. Too much oil in the chamber will prevent the piston from going over top dead center - a condition called hydro-lock. If you had 2 quarts in the engine I suspect you had oil pressure. As long as you had oil pressure your engine should be fine. I suppose it is possible but, I have never heard of an engine seizing after shut down - your timing must have been perfect.....? If the tractor does not have a working oil pressure gauge I would install one and verify it has oil pressure, upon start up.
 

No NO plugs are out and I will fully get oul out before I attempt to put plugs back in to start. If/when I get her turning good.

but atleast now I have optimism/hope.....

Im gonna let it sit a day or two or till weekend till I attempt again....

Thanks for all the good advise/help

I will follow up with further updates... yeah I had good oil pressure so the way it seized so to speak im just assiming cuz it worked then shut off now dont spin. thats what I know... but again what do i really know unless or until its torn down.
 


You are really pushing hard on the "seized up" angle, but are you sure that your battery has a full charge and that you have adequate current to the starter. You shouldn't be blaming the insides for not wanting to turn until you are sure that you have good voltage to your starter with it engaged. This is called a load test.
 

Undrestood..what i didnt say in the beginning was I thought it was my battery at first. as that has happened before...I had on the charger for a day or so. and indeed have a full charge. Even tried to jump it. So im pretty confident its not my battery this time.

Im on sezed angle as i cant turn the cam. but understood your thoughts and that. I have had that happen many times and thought this time that was the deal too. Maybe I will ensure battery good by taking it and have a load test performed.

Thanks for reverting back to that issue and ensure all ok with my battery.
 
I think I would lock one brake & block that wheel really well, then jack up the other rear wheel, put it in 4th gear & use the tire to see if you can turn the engine.
 

that sounds good by doing that I "lock" the differential between the two wheels right. OK... I didnt think of that. that if I jack it up and spin the wheel in gear the other wheel will just spin inn opposite direction. GOOD point.

I think I have to rock it in neutral first as I can get it to full go in hear I noticed last night. get the gears to synch so i can put in gear.

Thanks
 
I agree 2 quarts low would not seize an engine, sonething else is doing that. Was it running when key turned off or did it stop without turning key off?. If was not running when went to start tells me starter locked up. But that would not happen in running engine.
 

she was running totally fine when I hit the switch to turn her off.

I plan to pull starter and drive belt off to ensure im not getting any resistance from anything else......

I can hear the bendix gear being thrown when I hit the start button at this point but again...as you guys say..never know.....it very well maybe something else as she turned 1/2 revolution the other night trying to start her. Ive had a low battery so I plan to get that load tested this weekend.....and tried Jumping it in case just the battery as that is usually the case.

I would not think just "being LOW' with good oil pressure cause it to heat up that much to seize after being shut off either but...just sorta reporting what im seeing/experiencing.
 
Most of what you have said, points to a a bad battery, starter, or cables. All can fail suddenly, with no warning

Like other have said, even 2 quarts low is not going to seize your engine. By now, you should have followed others advice to eliminate a seized engine problem.

Good luck and keep getting back to the forum with what you find.
 
OK starter is totally shot. Took out and it does not spin. check solnoid first and its definately starter. got a new starter on order...the click was not bendix gear but the solnoid.... so....and all fluids put down in cylinders flowed to oil pan...

I think im on my way to getting her back running... next I think will have to be the PTo iput shaft seal..I have hyd oil all over garage floor leaking out from weep hole in belly........
 
2wheelgnnr,With your starter out and waiting on the new one.Take a big screw driver or pry bar and turn the flywheel ring gear teeth ,rolling the engine completely over a time or two while also checking for worn or missing ring gear teeth.That could have been the cause for the starter to hang up and not turn the engine over.Also caused the starter to burn up by not spinning over.Check for rotation of the fly wheel at least you will know that the motor is free.
 
(quoted from post at 17:33:13 02/01/22) OK starter is totally shot. Took out and it does not spin. check solnoid first and its definately starter. got a new starter on order...the click was not bendix gear but the solnoid.... so....and all fluids put down in cylinders flowed to oil pan...

I think im on my way to getting her back running... next I think will have to be the PTo iput shaft seal..I have hyd oil all over garage floor leaking out from weep hole in belly........


Aw, that's too bad. I know you were really looking forward to inspecting the inside of that motor, LOL.
 
(quoted from post at 17:33:13 02/01/22) OK starter is totally shot. Took out and it does not spin. check solnoid first and its definately starter. got a new starter on order...the click was not bendix gear but the solnoid.... so....and all fluids put down in cylinders flowed to oil pan...

I think im on my way to getting her back running... next I think will have to be the PTo iput shaft seal..I have hyd oil all over garage floor leaking out from weep hole in belly........

Are you sure it's hydraulic oil on the floor? If it is, that has nothing to do with the PTO seal. More like transmission input shaft seal. But you said the the engine oil was a couple of quarts down, so I'm wondering if it's a rear main seal that went South.
 

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