8n Starter engaged after Rewire

Dbelew · May 1, 2021

I bought the 8n from a a neighbor. He had received it from a farmer in trade for bush hog work. The farmer had converted it to 12v but the battery ran down constantly. The neighbor didnt have time to work on it so I bought it from him. I looked it over and decided to add the new gauges, exhaust, and other stuff thst came with it. While I had the hood off, I decided to rewire the entire tractor. I followed JMOR wiring diagram to the t with the exception of the diode. I put in an idiot light instead of the diode. I have the 3 wire alternator on there now. After I got it all put together, I put the hood on and cranked it up. The 8n fired right up and ran. The idiot light stayed running while the engine was running. It was my impression that it should turn off after the engine cranked. The engine ran for about 2 minutes and then I turned the key off and the tractor shut down. Few hours later I went to move the tractor out of the barn. It fired up but the starter did not disengage and made a horrible roaring noise. I turned the key off and the tractor continued to run. I jumped off and pulled the battery cable off and it finally shut the tractor down and the starter quit. Not when I try and attach the positive battery cable to the positive side of the battery I get a lot of sparks. Ive never put it on there and left it for more then a few seconds. I am afraid Id mess something up. What is happening and where do I start to look? My best description is 12v with 12v coil and electronic ignition. 3 wire alternator and everything is wired up to the best of my knowledge to JMOR DIAGRAM

Den N Ms · May 1, 2021

Dbelew, It could be a stuck starter solenoid,try ta[ping the solenoid with a screwdriver handle and see if that will UN stick it.

Jim.ME · May 2, 2021

(quoted from post at 22:57:17 05/01/21) I bought the 8n from a a neighbor. He had received it from a farmer in trade for bush hog work. The farmer had converted it to 12v but the battery ran down constantly. The neighbor didnt have time to work on it so I bought it from him. I looked it over and decided to add the new gauges, exhaust, and other stuff thst came with it. While I had the hood off, I decided to rewire the entire tractor. I followed JMOR wiring diagram to the t with the exception of the diode. I put in an idiot light instead of the diode. I have the 3 wire alternator on there now. After I got it all put together, I put the hood on and cranked it up. The 8n fired right up and ran. The idiot light stayed running while the engine was running. It was my impression that it should turn off after the engine cranked. The engine ran for about 2 minutes and then I turned the key off and the tractor shut down. Few hours later I went to move the tractor out of the barn. It fired up but the starter did not disengage and made a horrible roaring noise. I turned the key off and the tractor continued to run. I jumped off and pulled the battery cable off and it finally shut the tractor down and the starter quit. Not when I try and attach the positive battery cable to the positive side of the battery I get a lot of sparks. Ive never put it on there and left it for more then a few seconds. I am afraid Id mess something up. What is happening and where do I start to look? My best description is 12v with 12v coil and electronic ignition. 3 wire alternator and everything is wired up to the best of my knowledge to JMOR DIAGRAM

If the alternator isn't charging the indicator light will not go out. Did you use an incandescent light bulb in an insulated base socket (two wires-and the socket itself is insulated from ground)? LEDs won't work in this case.

jimtrs · May 2, 2021

(quoted from post at 22:57:17 05/01/21) .....I followed JMOR wiring diagram to the t with the exception of the diode. I put in an idiot light instead of the diode. I have the 3 wire alternator on there now

If you have the lamp wired correctly, it should be in-between the key switch and the #1 post on the plug of the three wire alternator, and should receive power from your key switch only when the switch is on.

The idiot light stayed running while the engine was running. It was my impression that it should turn off after the engine cranked

The lamp should / will go off when the output of the alternator is greater than the voltage of the battery. Which, if the alternator is charging properly, should be directly after starting the tractor. If the alternator is putting out less voltage than the battery (or none), the lamp will stay on.

Few hours later I went to move the tractor out of the barn. It fired up but the starter did not disengage and made a horrible roaring noise

May or may not be related to your rewiring. Starters have been know to stick on their own. Keep in mind that the charging system when wired correctly is independent of the starting / ignition system.

I turned the key off and the tractor continued to run

Sounds like the lamp is wired incorrectly or is the wrong type of lamp. Usually when the tractor continues to run in this situation, it is because the ignition system is being back fed voltage from the alternator. The correct lamp, or diode, prevents this from happening.

when I try and attach the positive battery cable to the positive side of the battery I get a lot of sparks

This can / will happen if the ground cable of the battery is still connected. Even more so if there is a large draw on the electrical system.

everything is wired up to the best of my knowledge to JMOR DIAGRAM

Double and triple check

Dbelew · May 2, 2021

Looking at the tractor now For my idiot light I got a type 194 bulb and a 194 base. It has two wires coming out of it. Black and brown. Black wire hooks into #1 wire on the alternator and the brown wire hooks into switched side on my terminal block. The light would turn on when switch is turned on and turn off when the switch was off. I checked all the wiring and everything is wired per the diagram provided by JMOR.

Alternator #2 wire is jumped to Bat+
Alternator #1 wire runs to black wire on idiot lamp
Other wire on idiot lamp (brown) runs to the switched side of the key switch on the terminal block.
Bat+ wire on alternator runs to bottom screw on terminal block.

Solenoid connects to starter via metal strap
Solenoid Bat wire connects to battery and another wire runs to the negative on the amp meter.
Little solenoid connection faces engine and the wire runs to the aftermarket push button starter switch.

Key switch black wire runs to the top of the terminal block where the brown wire for the idiot light is also connected. Also on the top screw terminal block I have the wire running to the coil.

The bottom of the terminal block has my headlight wire to the switch. The yellow wire from the key switch. Blue wire going to the + side of the amp meter and the wire that runs to the bat+ on the alternator.

Negative on the coil goes to the distributor.

Does all that sound right to you?
What would cause the sparks when hooking up the battery positive terminal. The negative is already hooked to the battery. I dont know what would be causing a big electric load when the battery is first hooked up

Dbelew · May 2, 2021

I used a type 194 incandescent with a type 194 bulb base. Black and brown wire. Brown wire is hooked to the switched side of my terminal block. the black wire on key switch is hooked to the same spot on the terminal block as well as the wire that goes to the coil.

Dbelew · May 2, 2021

I will try that next. When I verify the wiring is correct

Smokeonthewater · May 2, 2021

I would disconnect everything, especially the starter, and troubleshoot one circuit at a time

Eman85 · May 2, 2021

What after market starter switch? I would wire to the factory starter switch which is also the neutral safety. If it starts again check the battery voltage and see if the alternator is charging.

8n Starter engaged after Rewire

Dbelew

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Den N Ms

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Jim.ME

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jimtrs

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Dbelew

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Dbelew

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Dbelew

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Smokeonthewater

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Eman85

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