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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
Order Ford 8N Parts Online

Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity

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8NChris

08-03-2020 07:55:47




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There are likely many opinions and techniques y'all have been using that work. I found one on the sciencing site but can't post the link
From what I found on Valvoline's web site and other online charts the VV813 (141 VI) has better lubrication than Mineral Oil at 0F and slightly better than Mineral Oil at 100F. For the transmission, differential and pump $70 per 5 gallons I thought it would be cost effective to test the newer oil. My tractors 600 hour intervals won't come every spring but maybe every third. Shifter boot is good, seat bolts are tight and I am building a shed soon. My only concern is condensation.
Other than cost what are your thoughts on VV813?

Thank's

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8NChris

08-06-2020 04:57:33




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeThat sounds like a good idea to help keep the pump clean from anything that might come from the drive train. According to the preveous owner this 8N didn't have any fluid service the 15 years he owned it. For that time period it had what looked like mineral oil and a heavy gear oil mixture. The differential end had crud in and above the plug. For a tractor stored outside it was a nice not to see any water sitting in the bottom.

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TheOldHokie

08-06-2020 04:44:56




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Unfortunately there is a pretty low (high) limit on how much filtering you can realistically accomplish with a suction side filter. A 10u filter inhibits oil delivery rather substantially so to be safe you need to something like a 15 PSI bypass in the head and that winds up reducing the effectiveness of the filtering.
Hydraulic system OEMs usually go with a mesh strainer on the suction side and put the 10u filter on the tank return. Given the design of most old tractor systems there is no way to do that. The best solution I have found for N-series is a suction side strainer and a pump big enough to need a flow divider in the 3pt circuit. In those systems the excess flow goes back to the sump via an external circuit and you can put a full filter on that flow. Very similar to the engine oil filtering design.

TOH

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Ken(Ark)

08-06-2020 04:00:53




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Personally I would be adding a live hydraulic pump to my N mostly for a filter on the suction side . Contaminates are the biggest factor in the N hydro / dif / trans fluid. Lift cylinders do not wear out from normal operational friction .



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TheOldHokie

08-05-2020 15:38:51




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
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This thread is your idea not mine and I am not playing anything. I read and I report data not advertising hype. I don't second guess the professionals by dumping chemicals into carefully engineered products or deal in internet conspiracy theories or anecdotal reports. I am not bashful about sharing the scientific/engineering details of what I have learned. Thank you for your concern but I'll take my chances with my personal reputation when aharing that philosophy and information in public forums.

TOH

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8NChris

08-05-2020 14:54:27




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeSeems folks who use Amsoil don't have the mechanical failure as often. Some Hot Shot drivers prefer it for the extended oil change intervals. I r and r an Amsoil user 6.0 high pressure pump. Still had the torn screen and trashed pump but the top end of the engine was the cleanest diesel I had seen.



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8NChris

08-05-2020 14:02:37




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seePlaying know it all is a recipe for loosing your peers respect. I rather not have these online disrespectful tiffs, if you boy's are willing to leave it here let's call it done.



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8n13325

08-05-2020 11:03:50




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
I just purchased 8n13325 and started restoring to working condition.

just did the same thing. Changed the hydraulic/transmission fluid. Oil has changed and iso numbers and viscosity are 2 different methods of usage. I use a full synthetic oil made by Amsoil that is 10W-30.
My 45 years with Amsoil, I did a complete gasket swap from filler plug to drain plug. Axle seals to inspection covers.

VP makes a low priced oil sold at Tractor Supply Co. TSC has an app.

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TheOldHokie

08-05-2020 06:18:22




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

The physical properties data in OEM product data sheets are pretty reliable. No need or advantage to fudging those numbers.

Lubricating oil formulations are complex and sensitive chemistry that blenders verify by performance testing not formulary. Playing home chemist with lubricating oil additives like ZDDP is a recipe for creating just the sort of imbalance problems you had.
TOH

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8NChris

08-05-2020 05:42:25




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
No problem. I value others experiences and advice I don't burden folks to do my reading or thinking for me. We are trusting the manufacture to be honest, so I guess we are still up against the wall there. Over the years with advancement in modern oils some of the properties needed for the old iron is replaced and some aren't so good for them anymore. Going off no Flathead experience and what I think I know hopefully made the right oil choice in the 226 crank case. With the exception of one overdose of zinc additive I've dodged ruining a OHV V8 camshaft. Had some help identifying that one. It is posted on fepower forum.

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TheOldHokie

08-04-2020 19:46:28




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I have looked at dozens of product data sheets over the last decade or so and I can assure you there is little difference in the physical and performance properties of most premium UTF's. Here is what you will find:

Kinematic viscosity @100C: 9.4 to 10 cSt

Kinematic viscosity @40C: 55 to 60 cSt

Viscosity index: 135 to 140

API service classification: GL4

API viscosity grade (gear oil): SAE 80

API viscosity grade (engine oil): SAE 10W30

Valvoline VV813 is a fine major brand name UTF but at twice the cost of a premium generic. In a modern tractor with wet clutches and brakes or hydrostatic transmission VV813 MAY have a small discernible performance edge but not in a 70 year old design like an N-series. I have no quarrel with your choice but you asked for science and I have given you some.

TOH

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8NChris

08-04-2020 11:14:19




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeThat compatibility information is usually located on the label as pictured above. As for being the same and unrecognisable there is more to it. The properties can be found on there website and then compared with the UTF and others mentioned. That is up to the user, I am satisfied with my choice.



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8NChris

08-04-2020 11:04:00




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeGood information Jim. My 8N does not leak but likely will now that I posted on it. Most of us have come to appreciate the value of a good conventional oil. Rotella T1 30 claimes to have 1000 zinc. For our old tractors spring pressure I was comfortable using it in the 226 crank case. Next up is the antifreeze, is still the old sweet tasting formula. That stuff is around 20 years out of date.

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TheOldHokie

08-03-2020 18:20:11




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
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It is a generic UDT with the same physical properties as Ford M2C-134D, Kubota UDT, JD J20C, and litany of others. In an N-series tractor it will be indistinguishable from TSC Traveller premium UDT which is half the cost. I'll save the $35:per pail and spend it on beer and golf.

TOH



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Jim WI

08-03-2020 11:58:54




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
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Up here we rarely see over 90 and it usually does not last more than a week. I don't use the tractor much then anyway. We do see single-digits and lower. It's nice to have the UTF then. If you're plowing snow when it's cold you'll likely need to warm up the 90W before the hydraulics will want to work well. If that is a rare occurrence, it's not a problem for you. Some say that UTF leaks more easily but I have not had that problem - maybe just lucky.

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8NChris

08-03-2020 09:48:33




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeThis oil looked appropriate for the constant 100 summers and occasional single digit the 8N sees every year.



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Bruce (VA)

08-03-2020 09:47:47




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
Why all of that to address a problem solved years ago by UTF?

No need to get the expensive stuff; TSC UTF is fine.

Sheds, shifter boots, etc will not prevent the #1 cause of water in the hydraulic fluid: condensation. Unlike engine oil, the pump, transmission and differential rarely get hot enough to burn off the naturally occurring condensation in 5 gallons of fluid.

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8NChris

08-03-2020 09:46:25




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
Keep it positive guys. There is enough smartass comments online. Imagine your talking to a grown man or discussing this with your peers. Others may take you seriously.



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duey

08-03-2020 09:41:27




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
Wondering if you are launching a tractor designed to replace horses on a MARS MISSION.... just asking...



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Gaspump

08-03-2020 09:32:27




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  
My answer is a question. Why are you comparing it to mineral oil? 90w mineral oil as well as 50W motor oil were both approved substitutes for wartime use only (WWII) a time when obtaining any lube was near impossible. I've been there done that substitution, trying to get gas to do the spring planting was extremly tough too. No need to re-invent the wheel, GL-2, GL-4, GL-5 as well as 134 hydro oil are all fine. Here in the warm sunny south 134 is not the favorite but it is very practical and truly loved in the northern frigid regions.

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8NChris

08-03-2020 08:53:36




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 Re: Changed All The 8N Fluids, Home Testing Viscosity in reply to 8NChris, 08-03-2020 07:55:47  



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