installing a starter on my 8N

so I'm replacing the starter, again, on my 8N, the last one made a clanking crunch a few times then stopped turning while sucking the voltage down to about 5V and darn near smoking my ground cable....

should I be greasing the 'bendix' thing on the end of the shaft with the pinion gear? or dunking it in a bucket of oil before installing? or just putting grease on the pinion gear?
 
Left Coast Geek ,No ,NO grease or oil on the bendix drive,install it dry.How is the starter ring gear,any teeth missing or half missing?If so the ring gear needs replaced. Roll the engine over and check it all the way around.Put it in 4th gear and have someone push the rear tire forward while you check the ring gear.
 
(quoted from post at 19:11:43 07/16/20) Left Coast Geek ,No ,NO grease or oil on the bendix drive,install it dry.How is the starter ring gear,any teeth missing or half missing?If so the ring gear needs replaced. Roll the engine over and check it all the way around.Put it in 4th gear and have someone push the rear tire forward while you check the ring gear.


hahahaah, PUSH that thing? its got a bucket loader on the front sitting on the ground, and a disc tiller on the back sitting on the ground. it ain't goin' NOwhere til its running again. I don't have any sort of crane or hoist to get that stuff off.

ok, went out there with a rather bright small flashlight, and the 90 degrees or so of the ring gear that I can see looks fine.
 
Left Coast Geek,You should be able to grab and turn the fan blade if the belt is tight or take out slack with one hand and turn the fan with the other.
 
Again? Obviously something ain't right; mucked up wiring most likely. 'Smoking' is a huge clue. The N starter motor pocket has a machined scallop at the2 O'Clock position to ease installation of the unit. Be sure block contact surface and unit surface are clean and bare metal for good electrical ground contact. NO oil or grease. Do you have an OEM starter motor or is it one of those Cheena made hunks? Do you have the correct unit first of all? ALL Ford major components were meant to be rebuilt over and over and should be your first choice for repairs. ALL 8Ns use the 3-Wire motor WITH a solenoid. Get your ESSENTIAL MANUALS and perform a complete wiring system check static. Battery disconnected. Use a VOM set to continuity, NOT a test light. Don't assume. Look at flywheel ringgear teeth before installing. Are they missing and/or all boogered up? Crank will stop in two places 180° apart every time. If gear teeth are all mangled might be time to replace ring gear. 6V battery does not mean your system is wired correctly. Start (pun intended) there.

FORD 8N TRACTOR ESSENTIAL OWNER/OPERATOR/PARTS/SERVICE MANUALS:
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FORD 8N TRACTOR WIRING DIAGRAMS:
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*PICTOGRAM courtesy of JMOR


FORD 8N TRACTOR WIRING & TIMING AFTER S/N 263843:
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FORD N-SERIES TRACTOR ENGINE BLOCK STARTER POCKET:
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Tim Daley(MI)
 
Left Coast Geek,

Use a jack (I would suggest a bottle jack on wood blocking, as needed) and jack one rear wheel clear of the ground; the bucket and tiller can stay on the ground. Then you can push on that the rear wheel to turn the engine, as Den N Ms described, the tractor doesn't have to move from where it sets.
 
The old starter is one I got from this sites store about 5 years ago. It fell apart when I removed it, I have no idea how to get the brushes back on the commutator. The new one is the improved 12v one sold here, it should arrive today.

12v batt, 12V coil, 12v 1 wire alternator, 12v resistor.

The ground cable was smoking where the wire went into the battery clamp when the siezed starter was sucking down major juice, I'm replacing both batt wires
 
There does not have to be an "electrical" wiring problem for the battery cable to smoke. A spinning motor creates a counter EMF force that reduces the amp draw of the motor windings. A starting motor, tractor starter in this case, draws maximum amperage when first starting to spin and the amp draw is reduced as the motor spins up. If the motor is not spinning you effectively grounded your battery. A ground will cause amperage to go up and voltage to go down. Without this counter EMF the amp draw will be huge through the windings and you will smoke something. Modern motors have a built in overload circuit breaker to prevent this but not your starter!
JB
 
"It fell apart when I removed it,"

When removing starter don't remove the bolts or it will pull apart. Pull starter out just enough to get a nut on one of the long bolts, then remove starter.
 
(quoted from post at 07:07:13 07/17/20) "It fell apart when I removed it,"

When removing starter don't remove the bolts or it will pull apart. Pull starter out just enough to get a nut on one of the long bolts, then remove starter.

I had to take a cold chisel and tap pretty hard on the starter end plate where it goes against the block casting, as it was firmly struck on there before I could get it to budge at all. by then the other end plate had fallen off the commutators
 
It is easy to put it back together, if you can't do it just take it to a local starter repair shop and have it done, will make a good spare.
 
(quoted from post at 10:55:01 07/17/20) It is easy to put it back together, if you can't do it just take it to a local starter repair shop and have it done, will make a good spare.

do those even exist anymore? The only guy I knew locally who would rebuild starters and alternators and such retired years ago, that shop now just works on late model European cars, mostly Mercedes.
 
We have one, so maybe we are lucky! I just used some wire to hold the brushes back when I had one apart. really not that hard to do.
 
so I install new starter, install new solenoid, install new battery power and ground cables (both had clamp-on battery terminals, new ones are properly crimped on... old ground cable was smoking).

old solenoid had 4 terminals, new has three. when I push the starter button, absolutely nada, not even a little click.

now, I *thought* my starter button was + > start button > solenoid > ground, but maybe its on the other side, guess I need to get in with a volt meter and check it out. taking a break before I throw some tools, the tractor broke down in the middle of a weed patch with blackberry brambles all around it, and due to its 'jungle gym' front loader, its a major pain to work on.


oh, hmmmm, old starter solenoid was wired with batt + to one of the solenoid terminals, and the other terminal to the switch, so maybe my starter button goes to ground, and it has to go to hot instead? volt meter will tell the tale when things have cooled down out there a bit. my battery has only been disconnected a few days, as its a nearly new battery, I'd *hope* it still has a decent charge, it was on solar before I disconnected it a few days ago.
 

and... never mind, I got it running, removed the pushbutton starter switch to 'hot' that I'd added for the 4-pin solenoid, and reverted to using the original button next to the shifter which is to ground, and ruhruhruh-VROOOM! chug-chug-chug!

yay.
 
Left Coast Geek On a 3 post solinoid the small post grounds with the start switch to engauge the starter.
 
so..... *MY* simplified 8N (early) 12V wiring, using a single wire alternator, 12V starter with 3 pole solenoid, 12V front distributor coil with single resistor....



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