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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
Order Ford 8N Parts Online

8N51 Timing

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Btzj02

06-08-2020 14:34:05




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Need help with the next step. Suggestions please. Today I was determined to trouble shoot the irritating intermittent missing or poofing in the exhaust. I have narrowed down my problem to the #2 cylinder. I replaced the spark plug and did a spark test. Good spark, greater than 1/4 inch. I attached the timing light to #1 cylinder and that was at 4 degrees at idle. So timing "appeared" to be good.

I then checked the timing of #2 cylinder and it was all over the map, most of the time greater than 10 degrees. Cylinders 3 and 4 were consistently within a degree or two of the #1 cylinder. The results are repeatable.

I have the original side distributor and the ears on the cam do look worn. I did have to do a lot of work on the advance weights to free them up but they seem to be working ok now. Is my next step a distributor rebuild/replace or is there something else I can rule out?

Thank for any ideas JB

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Tim PloughNman Daley

06-10-2020 05:46:02




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
Angle Mount distributor timing is set using a timing light. The Essential Manuals all have the procedure.


FORD 8N TRACTOR ESSENTIAL OWNER/OPERATOR/PARTS/SERVICE MANUALS:

Tim Daley(MI)



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Grant - Co

06-09-2020 13:13:11




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
Good morning all - I've replaced several distributors because they were not symmetric. Three degrees difference of distributor rotation would be 6 degree difference of cylinder timing on the engine.



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Btzj02

06-09-2020 13:05:11




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
Sorry to burst your balloon, but in a 4 cyl engine, all 4 four fire with 2 revolutions, meaning cylinder to cylinder firing is 720/4=180 degrees apart, not "within a degree or two of #1".????????[/quote]

Sorry not clear. it is not the pistons that are off by a couple degrees it is the timing markings on the fly wheel. Cylinder 1 is indicating 4 degrees and cylinder 3 indicates 3 degrees and cylinder 4 indicates 5 degrees. I have been told that the pistons are connected to the crank shaft which means if any two cylinders are 1 or 2 degrees apart you probably threw a rod!!!

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Btzj02

06-09-2020 10:57:22




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

You may be pointing to my problem. 3 of the lobes are gapped the same and one lobe is quite a bit wider then the other 3. Yup #2 cylinder lobe is the odd man out. There is also a machining (?) mark on that lobe. Does measure to Bruce's measurements but it just looks different. I will fool around with it this week and see if I can improve performance by adjusting the gap similar to what you mention above!

JB

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Btzj02

06-09-2020 10:19:42




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

New compression test complete. 105 to 110 psi on all cylinders.



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Btzj02

06-09-2020 07:52:11




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
[quote="CVPost-Bruce(VA)"](quoted from post at 14:53:47 06/08/20) Just because I ve never experienced a worn out distributor cam doesn t mean it can t happen.

Bruce, your record is intact. Measures as you indicate.



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R Geiger

06-09-2020 07:14:15




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
Do you have the clip installed under the rotor?
they are easy to lose.
If the rotor was too high it would hit the cap. the spring on the rotor rides on the carbon connector in the middle of the cap.



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Btzj02

06-09-2020 05:34:32




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
Due to my lack of experience and healthy curiosity I started checking the timing on all cylinders and Shazam! it is possible. The timing marks 180 degrees apart on the fly wheel allows this for 4 cylinder engine. My neighbor is a Farm All guy and he thought it sounds like an exhaust valve sticking. Pressure test was good last fall but I will test again today. Will also mic the cam on the distributor and see what I get.
My old Dodge Omni had a distributor but other then setting the points I don't remember much. What is considered normal for the contacts inside the Distributor cap and the rotor? There is a slight discoloration on the flat of the conductors that is flush with the distributor cap plastic. There is no discolorations on the conductor ear that protrudes into the distributor cap. The rotor also has a slight discoloration on the top of the conductor where the spark energy is transferred to the rotor cap. Question: is it possible the rotor is too high relative to the distributor cap?

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JMOR

06-08-2020 21:08:11




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see" Cylinders 3 and 4 were consistently within a degree or two of the #1 cylinder." Sorry to burst your balloon, but in a 4 cyl engine, all 4 four fire with 2 revolutions, meaning cylinder to cylinder firing is 720/4=180 degrees apart, not "within a degree or two of #1".????????



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lha

06-08-2020 19:28:00




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
This may not be your problem,but on my 9n,while setting my points I noticed that the gap was different[though slightly] on different lobes. I set the gap on the lobes so they all had at least the minimum gap. I replaced the bushings on the shaft and it ran more smoothly.



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R Geiger

06-08-2020 18:36:24




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeAccording to FO-4 that is why there are two sets of timing marks on the flywheel.



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R Geiger

06-08-2020 18:18:15




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
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I have read that there are two sets of timing marks on the flywheel so that one could time the engine from any cyclinder.



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wore out

06-08-2020 17:53:52




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
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The "wear block" on the points isn't as "wide" as the point cam lobes, so wear would show up as a sort of wide "groove" in the face of the cam lobe with unworn cam profile "above" and/or "below" the worn area.

Have you looked closely at the #2 lobe?

I would suspect a worn distributor bushing and shaft, would cause the timing to "jump around" before I would suspect a worn cam lobe.

Could even have a bend to it, and flopping around.

Also, if the camshaft (for some reason) is moving fore and aft a bit that can cause "spark scatter" due to the angle-cut camshaft drive gears and angle-cut distributor drive gears. (Helical geartrins.)

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Den N Ms

06-08-2020 17:33:13




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
Btzj02 ,Please explain to me how you come up with 10% with a timing light on #2 and #3 cylinders.I would like to know.



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denny k

06-08-2020 18:09:12




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Den N Ms, 06-08-2020 17:33:13  
I hope he answers that question! I have been timing engines for over 55 years (even 600 + hp racing engines) and have never heard of timing any cylinder but #1.



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welding man

06-09-2020 05:03:54




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to denny k, 06-08-2020 18:09:12  
You never owned a 345 International engine then. They timed on #8 Cyl.



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Rusty2N

06-08-2020 16:48:39




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
Did you do a compression test?



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Bruce(VA)

06-08-2020 14:53:47




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 Re: 8N51 Timing in reply to Btzj02, 06-08-2020 14:34:05  
Just because Iíve never experienced a worn out distributor cam doesnít mean it canít happen.


Sidemount measurements are:

Across flats = .72
Over lobes = .78 dia.



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