Can a tractor hate you??

Lynn Patrick

Well-known Member
I finally got back to this 8N engine ('50 8N engine in '43 2N) that spits back thru the carb. This tractor has been a real problem for me. The original engine had a bad block that had a very slow water leak into the 3rd cylinder, but tractor came w/a spare engine. I never could get that one to even fire, so I put this 8N engine that ran w/this spitting issue in it. When I got back to it now I did a dry compression check (100, 110, 110, 100), replaced the points that didn't look too good, clean set of plugs, re-checked the carb, & hit the starter. NOTHING! The key switch had failed. I always buy more than one, so replaced it w/a new one that worked until I tightened it in, then the key wouldn't turn. Replaced it again, & now the tractor starts & acts the same as before. It spits when starting, then smooths out, then spits very irregularly but especially when trying to accelerate even very little. Any help is appreciated!
This thing has me buffaloed, and I am really wanting to learn what I am missing. Can a tractor actually hate you?
 
Did you do any adjusting to the carb?

If not, back out the needles for idle and load 1/4 turn and try again. If no change in results try another 1/4 turn.
If nothing changes, it is time to clean the carb.
 
Sticking valves? Weak valve springs? I know you know about adjusting a carburetor, so I won't go there. Maybe you should name this tractor Christine. LOL.
 
(quoted from post at 15:36:34 05/18/20) Sticking valves? Weak valve springs?
Thanks for the responses. What I don't understand is the connection between opening the throttle & a valve sticking????
Sounds to me like a clear case of SPITE!!
 
It's been my experience that not only can a tractor hate you, it can have a negative influence on other equipment you own such as power washers, snow blowers etc. Whats most frustrating about these tractors is that they are the most simplistic of design. You only need spark, fuel and air for them to operate. How is your fuel and tank. There might be a bunch impurities in your fuel tank partially blocking the screen that goes in the tank above the fuel shutoff. If your stuck burning gas with ethanol added you might have a film building up in your tank or there might just be crud built up over time. Drain the tank, check the screen, let the tank dry then add compressed air. My 1952 8n just stopped running. This was one of the last things I checked. I verified good compression, put in new plugs, verified good spark,added new points, rebuilt the carburator multiple times and could only get it to stutter for 15 seconds at best. When I checked the screen in the tank it was covered with fine sludge. I drained more fuel out to remove some crud and after letting sit for a day or so added compressed air and covered the tractor in fine brown powder. I didn't want to pull the tank off so I left it as is and put a new screen in. I also added electronic ignition and it ran great until my starter locked up and chipped teeth on my ring gear. I dont want to tell you what I went through replacing the ring gear. Now I'm having issues with my starter Bendix. My Tractor Loves Me! I hope this one idea helps. Good Luck
 
Thanks for some ideas. The tank & fuel delivery is good (The old pint jar in time test!) Starts easy! Runs until I shut it off. Do you suppose it knows I have a guy that wants to buy it as soon as I can get it running right? Or is it the virus & wants to shelter in place????
 
Opening the throttle reduces the vaccuum between the intake valves and carburetor. When the vaccuum is reduced, maybe
it is not pulling the intake valve closed as hard, thus the problem. Cause for the problem may be a sticking valve or
weak valve spring??
 
Lynn, Trying to fix any kind of a problem while frustrated can be, well, more frustrating. I feel for you.

Being thorough and methodical is the way to find out what is going on. Once finally figured out, you can make informed decision about wether to fix or not. Sometimes, it just not worth it.

You keep saying "spitting back through carb"
This sounds like backfiring. Most discussions with you about this problem assume that is what 's happening. If something else is happening, you need to identify it correctly to figure out what is going on.

With that being said In your first post here
https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1429877
several things were mentioned, but I don't believe responded to:

In reply to "deanostoybox"
Perhaps crossfire due to leaky spark plug wires or crack/carbon track in distributor cap?
you stated
deano, the wires are new - not that that means they are good! I replaced the dist cap w/an old one & it seemed to run better but I can see nothing wrong w/the new one I took off. Need to pull it outside so I can run it w/out breathing fumes but it's supposed to rain all day & half the night. Gives me something to do tomorrow!
Thanks!

I don't believe we heard anymore about this from you. You did say
it seemed to run better but I can see nothing wrong w/the new one I took off
Problems are not always visual. If they were, boy this stuff would be easier.
So did this resolve the spitting or not, when you say it seemed to run better?

Then "soaked" asked:
Hi Lynn, Is the clip still under your rotor? Sometimes they lift off with the rotor, and end up on the floor.
Never heard a reply here.

Then in what is the currently last post in that thread I reponded to you saying
This '50 runs weird. It starts easily, runs smooth, then spits back thru the carb. Maybe once, maybe several times, then smooths out, then spit, then smooth, etc, etc, etc,..... It sounds like a valve sticks open
I had the covers off & could see no problem. The spitting is very irregular
I said
A valve sticking occasionally would be very difficult to see on a running engine.
I'd try cleaning/lubricating all the valve stems. Maybe spraying each with PB Blaster, or the like, for a few days.
Did you try lubricating the valve stems thoroughly?


Then in your next post
https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1430339
about this

"Den N Ms" said
Lynn Patrick,Do a compression test on all 4 cylinders.Check valve clearances as you could have a burnt/leaking intake valve or one that is to tight causing it to backfire in the intake manifold.I don't think anything is wrong with your carburetor.

You responded by saying
Den, thanks for the input. Not to argue, just to learn, but if a valve was leaking or too tight wouldn't it fire back every time? This is very irregular.
Valves can stick irregularly.


"Den N Ms" & "Gaspump" replied with information about leaking / sticking valves. You said
I appreciate all the responses, but am still wondering how a valve can stick so irregularly & only when opening the throttle, even very slightly??? Again, not arguing, & will do a compression check as suggested
Again, valves can stick irregularly when dirty, gummed up, or for other reasons. Have you done the compression test?


Now in this current thread from "Jim L WA"
(quoted from post at 12:59:25 05/18/20)
(quoted from post at 15:36:34 05/18/20) Sticking valves? Weak valve springs?
Thanks for the responses. What I don't understand is the connection between opening the throttle & a valve sticking????
Again, Again, valves can stick irregularly.

I think before we can give any more help, what we need to do is determine if valves are sticking or not. Previous idea's mentioned to you will help you to figure this out.
 
WOW Jim! Lots of stuff here! I'll try to respond better.
When I say spitting back thru the carb it is definitely that direction, not backfiring. You can see & hear it when the intake tube is disconnected. When connected it actually is causing a small amount of oil to blow out the air intake vent.
Plug wires were again replaced w/a proven set.
Sorry about the lapse in responding sooner, but rain, other projects, & Honey Do List have been taking priority!
The clip is on the distributer shaft & fits tight.
I did lube the valve stems when I had the covers off, have squirted oil into the plug holes & down the valve stems, & I also just added some SeaFoam to the gas hopefully to clean that direction. (Hate to use any snake oils, but I had the SeaFoam!)
Compression was 100, 110, 110, 100.
Is there a good way to lube the stems, or should I be looking at pulling the head & pulling the valves to clean & check, then lap them in?
I am in agreement that it sounds like a valve sticking, just bugs me when it runs smooth long enough to make me think I'm gaining!
Many thanks for all the help!
 
Let me throw my two cents worth in. Lynn, how many old spark plug wires do you have available, Scab some in, not using the originals and see what happens,. Wander if voltage is leaking through the old plug wires.
 
Lynn, I'm a little confused with the history. Is this the spare engine that came with the tractor or a third one? When you replaced the points, did you remove the plate and check the weights for free movement? How about the shaft bushings?
 
Jim L, this time I'm ahead of the average! This is the third engine, and last Saturday I pulled the distributor, cleaned & checked it over. Bushings are good & weights move freely.
Wayne, I took the new wires off & put on an old set that worked on another engine. This is a side dist so they aren't confined to that tube loom. Just told the wife today I should probably go get Wayne & have him come listen!
 
(quoted from post at 15:55:58 05/18/20) WOW Jim! Lots of stuff here! I'll try to respond better.
When I say spitting back thru the carb it is definitely that direction, not backfiring. You can see & hear it when the intake tube is disconnected. When connected it actually is causing a small amount of oil to blow out the air intake vent.

So it seems you most likely have compression leaking past an intake valve, as in either a sticking valve or a junk valve or a leak between the exhaust and intake portions of the manifold.

To check the manifold, I would remove it completely from the tractor, block off where the carburetor mounts and try filling either the intake or exhaust portion with some thin fluid and see if it leaks into the other portion.

For valves, I would do everything possible to try and make sure the valves arnn't sticking. The next step would be a complete valve job. Lapping won't cut it.

I did lube the valve stems when I had the covers off, have squirted oil into the plug holes & down the valve stems ....
Is there a good way to lube the stems
through the spark plug holes as you did. You would need to rotate the engine so that each cylinders intake valve is open while spraying PB Blaster, or the like.
 
OK! I'm convinced. But rather than try lubing, etc, & hoping it doesn't stick again, I just ordered a head gasket & will pull the head & look up close & personal at the valves! Thanks for all the help!
 
(quoted from post at 08:14:11 05/18/20) I finally got back to this 8N engine ('50 8N engine in '43 2N) that spits back thru the carb. This tractor has been a real problem for me. The original engine had a bad block that had a very slow water leak into the 3rd cylinder, but tractor came w/a spare engine. I never could get that one to even fire, so I put this 8N engine that ran w/this spitting issue in it. When I got back to it now I did a dry compression check (100, 110, 110, 100), replaced the points that didn't look too good, clean set of plugs, re-checked the carb, & hit the starter. NOTHING! The key switch had failed. I always buy more than one, so replaced it w/a new one that worked until I tightened it in, then the key wouldn't turn. Replaced it again, & now the tractor starts & acts the same as before. It spits when starting, then smooths out, then spits very irregularly but especially when trying to accelerate even very little. Any help is appreciated!
This thing has me buffaloed, and I am really wanting to learn what I am missing. Can a tractor actually hate you?
url]Could be the dizzy also. Either the advance is frozen forward or the springs are weak/broken also. [/url]
 

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