Engine noise

Gantt

Member
I got my 2N running today for a few minutes. Had a temporary fuel tank hanging from the rafters. I installed a new muffler so it s much quieter than when I bought it. I notice at low rpms the engine had some knock to it. Sounds like bottom end. I have no history on the engine. I filled it with 10w30 oil, I know it s not going to be as quiet as a modern engine, and I know talking about it online is impossible to tell what is acceptable or not.

Is some engine noise acceptable for this old engines?? Oil pressure cold is 20-30 depending on rpms. [/list]
 
Gantt,Check close for a exhaust leak around #4 exhaust port.A leak there can make it sound like a engine knock.
 
I ll spray with soapy water and check it right after it fires up. Before the manifold gets hot. I swear it sounds like bottom end noise. I will check around with my stethoscope to see what area of the engine it s coming from. I am a mechanic so am decent at engine noises. It would be nice to be an exhaust leak, much cheaper than rods or mains worn out.
 
I do have a slight exhaust leak at #4. I was also able to isolate the noise to cylinder 4, above the oil pan, below the head right in the area of the rear side cover. Most noticeable at low rpms audibly. I cannot hear it audibly when rpms are raised to moderate levels. I can use a wooden handles screwdriver to hear the noise at any rpms. Removed spark plug wire cly 4 and noise remains the same. I have uploaded a video to YouTube to try and show you the noise. https://youtu.be/nVewWM-AxMU
 
After getting the engine warm, oil pressure at low idle is approx 7psi, so I am thinking I have worn bearings


I can t overhaul this thing right now. I will swap to 40 weight and see if I can get by with it this summer. Just need to plow the garden a couple times.
I am a competent mechanic, but I do not have any specific tools for this engine. Liner puller, etc... is an overhaul something I can do at home, or should I farm this out to a machine shop? I have a set of dial indicators and calipers so I could measure journals and such, to see if the crank is in spec.
 
After thinking it over, I would be foolish to use it knowing I had engine damage. I will just have to borrow my fathers tractor for garden tilling this year, I will save up and just do a complete overhaul. New clutch while I have it apart. I do not think the guy sold it to me knowing it was going to need engine work. He is older and cannot hear as well as he used to, plus the rusted exhaust was too loud to hear the knock anyway. Plus he is a Christian fellow, not to mention he would be crazy to sell a busted tractor to a guy two houses down. Everyone know of you are selling a ticking bomb you sell it WAY down the road!!
 
(quoted from post at 20:30:28 02/15/20) I got my 2N running today for a few minutes.
I notice at low rpms the engine had some knock to it. Sounds like bottom end.

Is some engine noise acceptable for this old engines??

I have heard many that are worn.

After getting the engine warm, oil pressure at low idle is approx 7psi, so I am thinking I have worn bearings

Sure sounds like it. Only way to know how worn is to plastigauge, or measure.

is an overhaul something I can do at home, or should I farm this out to a machine shop? I have a set of dial indicators and calipers so I could measure journals and such, to see if the crank is in spec.

Unless your well experienced in machine shop work, leave the measuring to them. The rebuilding part is straight forward.


After thinking it over, I would be foolish to use it knowing I had engine damage.

Worn is not damage, it is wear.

Unless is sounds as if it's ready to blow, make sure you got oil pressure, try some thicker oil, run it a bit. If it knocks like crazy, start doing some evaluating. Your call though.

These old Fords when used hard back on the farm, would need rebuilds every few years. Engines wear as their used. Normal.
 

Gantt,You posted,I was also able to isolate the noise to cylinder 4, above the oil pan, below the head right in the area of the rear side cover.
I would remove the side covers and check the valves for excessive clearances for personal satisfaction.
I watched the video can't really tell but sounds like it could be a valve with excessive clearance.
 
(quoted from post at 17:30:28 02/15/20) I got my 2N running today for a few minutes. Had a temporary fuel tank hanging from the rafters. I installed a new muffler so it s much quieter than when I bought it. I notice at low rpms the engine had some knock to it. Sounds like bottom end. I have no history on the engine. I filled it with 10w30 oil, I know it s not going to be as quiet as a modern engine, and I know talking about it online is impossible to tell what is acceptable or not.

Is some engine noise acceptable for this old engines?? Oil pressure cold is 20-30 depending on rpms. [/list]

When I got my 9N it had noise from a leaky manifold on #4 and the valves were clacking.

Easy to do valve adjustment with the manifold off.

Quiet as a sewing machine now.

Concerning oil pressure, mine gets low at idle once warm. It did that 30 years ago. Pressure has not changed and no new noises either.

It does puff a little smoke but does not use much oil, By the time it gets low on oil it's ready for a change anyway.
 

I have not.

I am going to check valve clearance, then move deeper into the engine. I have plasti gauge at work, I am going to run a compression test as well. If the pressures are good, an I find excessive bearing clearance I will put a set of bearings and keep going. I hope I do not need a full rebuild right now, but I want it done right so whatever it takes I will do it right the first time and not have to worry later.
 
(quoted from post at 19:17:44 02/16/20)
I have not.

I am going to check valve clearance, then move deeper into the engine. I have plasti gauge at work, I am going to run a compression test as well. If the pressures are good, an I find excessive bearing clearance I will put a set of bearings and keep going. I hope I do not need a full rebuild right now, but I want it done right so whatever it takes I will do it right the first time and not have to worry later.

If I had bearing clearance related noise and I wanted to procrastinate for a little while on a refit, then I would definitely go 20W50 as the stopgap measure.
 
i thought about it, but as a mechanic i know full well what happens when you spin a bearing. i could end up with triple the amount of money in a repair then. simply not worth it to take the risk. i will just have more patience and keep doing this the right way.
might get away with a set of bottom end bearings. i will find out more next weekend. i will drain the oil tonight so it can drip dry all this week.
 
You say it's at #4, did you try shorting that cylinder with it running to see if the noise changes? If it's a rod the noise will lessen if the cylinder isn't firing. Does it make the noise with the clutch depressed?
 
(quoted from post at 11:36:46 02/17/20)i will just have more patience and keep doing this the right way.

I'd try the compression test. If out of spec and you got bottom end noise, I'd remove the engine, put it on a stand and do a complete rebuild.
It's much easier to do that than to fuss with it in frame. Partial rebuild might sound inviting, but it is more difficult (and almost as costly) as a complete rebuild.

might get away with a set of bottom end bearings.

IMHO
Lot easier to work on these engines when their out and on a stand. I don't enjoy trying to plastigauge a bearing while laying on my back with oil dripping on me, only to find that it's out of spec. All this is difficult to do working on your back. If clearances are out, odds are the crank is out of round, if so requires removal and grinding. Trying to put bearings in without completely removing the crank, if the crank is out of spec, it can be done but man you got to ask yourself why.

Again just my humble opinion.


Oh yea, worked on hundreds of these old Fords and rebuilt dozens of these engines. No more in frame for me.
 
hot idle is 7 psi. that is with 10w30 oil. have not verified idle speed, but its as low as it goes without stating to stumble. sounds like idle speed to me though.
 
First off that tractor is a front mount distributor and if the wrong bolts atr installed to mount it then they will hit the timing gear on the camshaft ridges. Easy check if problem, take boult out and measure it, should be 7/8" long with a lock washer. If that lock washer is left off then that bolt will hit that gear or if a 1" long bolt has been stuck in instead of the 7/8" bolt. If so just shorten bolt a bit. This is what I had on my 9N. Mechanic said was a wrist pin so tractor completely tore down, just a different bolt would have taken care of that but it did need sleves so all was not lost but tractor not running yet after 15+ years.
 
(quoted from post at 18:27:54 02/20/20) First off that tractor is a front mount distributor and if the wrong bolts atr installed to mount it then they will hit the timing gear on the camshaft ridges. Easy check if problem, take boult out and measure it, should be 7/8" long with a lock washer. If that lock washer is left off then that bolt will hit that gear or if a 1" long bolt has been stuck in instead of the 7/8" bolt. If so just shorten bolt a bit. This is what I had on my 9N. Mechanic said was a wrist pin so tractor completely tore down, just a different bolt would have taken care of that but it did need sleves so all was not lost but tractor not running yet after 15+ years.
next time i am in the shop i will give that a look. can never hurt to check the easy stuff first.
 

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