Water pump cover plate

Trudy Fair · Jan 30, 2020

I'm replacing the water pump on my '51 8N, and the new part has a plate on the back that wasn't there on the pump I just removed. Was this plate for models that still have a generator ? There is a place on the plate with a bolt that looks like something mounts there. Mine has an alternator and a 12V system.

Bob · Jan 30, 2020

The tab is used with later-model 8N's with a side-mounted distributor.

That change required the generator to be moved to the opposite (left hand) side of the engine and the addition of that tab. Ignore it if you don't need it for you application.

Bob · Jan 30, 2020

(quoted from post at 15:28:40 01/30/20) The tab is used with later-model 8N's with a side-mounted distributor.

That change required the generator to be moved to the opposite (left hand) side of the engine and the addition of that tab. Ignore it if you don't need it for you application.

To be more clear, ALL N's used the plate, yours must be still stuck to the old waterpump, the tab was added for the later models.

Trudy Fair · Jan 30, 2020

Bob- Thank you so much. I just looked and the old plate is still MIA. I cleaned up the old fan on the wire brush wheel of the bench grinder and will paint it before putting it back on so maybe it will last another 69 years. Before I put the new radiator on I ran some water through the block and it ran clear - no sediment. I took my lead blower and forced the water out so I wouldn't have any water to freeze down in there.

Trudy Fair · Jan 30, 2020

Here is a little better picture of the new one with the plate. I do have a side mount distributor so if there is something that looks like it goes on the mounting bolt I'll use it. I really appreciate the help, Bob.

Trudy Fair · Jan 30, 2020

(quoted from post at 14:25:44 01/30/20) Here is a little better picture of the new one with the plate. I do have a side mount distributor so if there is something that looks like it goes on the mounting bolt I'll use it. I really appreciate the help, Bob.

deanostoybox · Jan 30, 2020

Most likely the plate is still on the engine block. Without the plate part of the volute would be unsealed and it would pump water all over the engine.

JMOR · Jan 30, 2020

(quoted from post at 17:55:31 01/30/20) Most likely the plate is still on the engine block. Without the plate part of the volute would be unsealed and it would pump water all over the engine.

gree...look more closely.

Trudy Fair · Jan 31, 2020

Oh crikey !!! You guys just saved me monumental headaches and problems. Lookit this - you NAILED IT. There it is, still stuck to the engine block. I cleaned it up not realizing it is the cover plate and not the block itself. I?m so grateful for your kindness and for taking the time to help me with my tractor.

Tim PloughNman Daley RIP · Jan 31, 2020

"Models that still have a generator"??? ALL models up to the Thousand models had a generator and never an alternator. 12V switch out jobs use an alternator and were always owner installed device -never a factor item. The generator OR alternator have absolutely nothing to do with a water pump, one's mechanical and one's electrical -what makes you think it does? Your '51 8N would have the angle (side) mount distributor. If you have a front mount distributor, you have a 48-50 model tractor. As Bob said, extra plate tab was added then. If so, just trim that portion off the plate. There also are two gaskets - see attached diagram. Your Essential Manuals are huge valuable tools.

FORD TRACTOR 48-50 WATER PUMP:

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)

jimtrs · Jan 31, 2020

Usually there is at least one screw (countersunk) in addition to the main mounting bolts / studs that holds the back plate to the water pump housing. Not sure about this application though.

Trudy Fair · Jan 31, 2020

Tim - thank you for your input. The reference to the generator was in regard to the tab and mounting nut on the plate. I thought perhaps it was there to accommodate models that had or had not been converted to 12V as a place for either a generator or alternator so the part would be a universal fit. I know they are separate systems but as my tab and bolt seemed to be unused I wasn?t sure. Thank you for including the parts diagram. We never know what or how some previous owner did or did not do. My tractor had a piece of small copper tubing jammed into the light switch where a fuse should be so I am a bit skeptical about what I might find. Thanks again for the help - Trudy

Trudy Fair · Jan 31, 2020

Jimtrs- You were so right. Thank you. There was a place for the countersunk screw but it hadn t been used, so I was able to get the old plate off easily. The screw hole in the block is empty. When I removed the plate I could see the countersink on the BACK side of the plate so it appears the PO had put the plate on backwards for some reason. At any rate it is off now, thanks to you all so I can clean the surface of the block. My car mechanic gave me gasket adhesive for between the plate and block and silicone for between the gasket and pump. Anything else I need to know before launching is so greatly appreciated. Should I consult my FNH parts catalog and get that screw for the countersunk hole ? I m trying to put this thing back correctly as I go along and undo some PO mistakes and not add to them.
Thanks - Trudy

Trudy Fair · Jan 31, 2020

I just took the new plate out and checked, and the reason the old one was backwards was if it were mounted with the countersink in the center facing front, the tab and bolt would make the coil stick out, as the big bolt ends up right behind it. None of my books show a plate with a tab and bolt like that. Mounted backwards, and not using the countersunk bolt in the center, the alternator hits the tab when you have to push it forward to get the belt off. Do you guys cut that tab off ? Let it push the coil out ? I want to be 100% correct. What do you guys do ?

HFJ · Jan 31, 2020

[i:922e61cc46]"My tractor had a piece of small copper tubing jammed into the light switch where a fuse should be"[/i:922e61cc46]

your instincts seem to be pretty good about this stuff, so i'm guessing (and hoping) that you've already replaced that copper tube with an actual fuse.

jimtrs · Jan 31, 2020

(quoted from post at 12:16:04 01/31/20) I just took the new plate out and checked, and the reason the old one was backwards was if it were mounted with the countersink in the center facing front, the tab and bolt would make the coil stick out, as the big bolt ends up right behind it. None of my books show a plate with a tab and bolt like that. Mounted backwards, and not using the countersunk bolt in the center, the alternator hits the tab when you have to push it forward to get the belt off. Do you guys cut that tab off ? Let it push the coil out ? I want to be 100% correct. What do you guys do ?

The countersunk screw normally screws the back plate to the water pump housing. I'd be concerned that the water pump might leak between the plate and housing without it, though apparently it worked for you previously.

The tab with a captured or welded not is not designed with an alternator in mind. If your not using it, and it interferes with the alternator, you could cut it off. Don't know if you would ever want it in the future?

soaked · Jan 31, 2020

On my side mount 8n, the welded nut on the plate, accepts a bolt that secures the alternator bracket.

John

JMOR · Jan 31, 2020

(quoted from post at 13:31:48 01/31/20) On my side mount 8n, the welded nut on the plate, accepts a bolt that secures the alternator bracket.

John
<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto3763.jpg">

rom your pictures, the old plate was not on backwards, so install the new (or reuse old) just like it was before you removed it. All will be fine.

Trudy Fair · Jan 31, 2020

HFJ - I got a new light switch. The new one is closed up and doesn t have a place for a fuse so I put an in-line fuse on it. I saved the old switch with the piece of copper tubing in place of the fuse for posterity.....it s a bit of a masterpiece.

JMOR · Feb 1, 2020

(quoted from post at 01:44:11 02/01/20) HFJ - I got a new light switch. The new one is closed up and doesn t have a place for a fuse so I put an in-line fuse on it. I saved the old switch with the piece of copper tubing in place of the fuse for posterity.....it s a bit of a masterpiece.

y that, I suppose you solved your cover plate problem & moved on to more important issues?

Trudy Fair · Feb 1, 2020

I think I can start putting it all back together again. You all are really kind to take the time to enlighten me. My other tractor that I use all the time is a '46 Farmall B, so it will be nice to have a 3 point for some things around here.

Water pump cover plate

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