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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
:

Water in Transmission

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drlarrye

01-13-2020 03:29:40




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I have an 8N and a 9N. The 9N needs it's transmission fluid changed every year or 2 because it gets water in it, but the 8N never gets water in it. The 9N has some welded cracks in the transmission case that leak a little. Is that probably the reason the 9N gets more water?

What is the best to use to rinse out the transmission when I change the fluid? I used kerosene last time because that is what I had, but I think someone suggested something else that would remove water better.

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showcrop

01-24-2020 10:05:30




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
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It goes into your or your buddies waste oil heater.



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TraktorFreunde

01-24-2020 10:02:02




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
I've got a question.

What do you all do with the kerosine/diesel/whatever for cleaning when you're done?

I imagine it's full of junk, so do you filter and reuse?



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showcrop

01-23-2020 04:51:09




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
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Dr. Larry, I can't claim to know this for sure , but from my experience if water is separated out it is separate, and contaminated oil is easily differentiated from clean oil.



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DrLarryE

01-19-2020 04:01:11




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
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I guess my question is more hypothetical as the cost for replacement oil is not that much regardless of what I use. If the oil and water do separate out and I do remove the visible water how much moisture might remain in the oil?
The oil being foamy is what prompted me to ask the original question so I know not to try to use it as is. The older oils would not become foamy or they would be more likely to separate out if left to sit?

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showcrop

01-15-2020 04:39:22




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
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Doctor, I answered these two questions partially before although I see that I used the word oil instead of water in one place. Please read this carefully.

Generally speaking water doesn't mix well with older type oils. The oil will rise above the oil. Newer oils with additives tend to absorb the moisture and hold onto it so that it is NOT LIKELY TO SEPARATE.

The key here is WHAT OIL IS IN THERE???? old type gear oil will not hold water and will tend to separate. In recent years old tractor owners wish to use the best and most expensive so it has become common to use UTF or universal tractor fluid, despite the fact that the old tractors have neither clutch packs nor wet brakes. The additives in UT

F tend to hold moisture so the oil becomes foamy, and the moisture is not likely to separate. If it separates it is older oil, most likely 80W90 gear oil, And if it separates, it is separated and you could conceivably reuse it.
I would use cheap hydraulic oil and just periodically drain the water off the bottom. Trying to reuse foamy UTF would be bad because the foam indicates water which is not a good lubricant.

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DrLarryE

01-15-2020 03:01:42




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
The 8N is definitely in better shape overall. From research of past topics I assumed condensation was the issue. Maybe the cracks allow more air, hense more moisture into the chamber to condense?
If the water and oil do visibly separate in a bucket when stored, would it be reasonable to try to reuse the oil? Or would there be enough water left in the oil to just give me a head start on needing to change it again?

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Royse

01-14-2020 16:42:40




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
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A couple of "theories", and that's all they are.
The one used more may get warmer and cause more condensation, but not hot enough to evaporate it.

Or, maybe the other one has better seals including on the top link?



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showcrop

01-14-2020 15:39:04




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
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Cary, I agree that it is not rocket science. Did you steal that from Fred Flintstone, LOL?
But seriously I renewed that felt seal when restoring my 901. There is little if any water getting by it.



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Caryc

01-14-2020 14:56:47




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
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It's easy to keep those places covered as in the pics below. It's not rocket science.





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showcrop

01-14-2020 05:20:42




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
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Dennis, while it is certainly possible for water to get in past the felt seal. I see it as being nowhere near as likely as condensation. The felt seal will catch the water and it will dribble down through the felt and then run back out.



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DrLarryE

01-14-2020 03:01:39




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
Back to one of the original questions, does anyone have any theories why one gets so much more water than the other? Both have good shift boots (which is probably irrelevant). Both are stored the same and the one with less/no water get the least amount of use. The only difference is the cracks. I'm guessing this is just "one of those things"



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Royse

01-13-2020 20:11:43




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
I agree with you Dennis. John Smith, of "old ford tractor dot com"

fame actually did a test on them to prove that same theory.

I wish I could find it now.

While condensation is an issue, the amount of water Dr Larry is talking
about is likely getting in through the upper 3 pt spring/rod opening.

The cleaning method I remember I'm pretty sure was posted by
SoundGuy and involved a mixture of diesel or kerosene and
isopropyl alcohol. The alcohol to help remove the water.

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DMartin9N-2N

01-13-2020 19:51:29




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
Good evening: I don't think the shift lever boot is the main problem letting water get in. Look at the plunger where the top link's movement is transmitted to the hydraulic system. There is a large coil spring with a rod inside it, the rod goes through a hole into the hydraulic enclosure. Since the rod and so forth are on the top of the tractor, water can get in that way. Others will chime in and say right or wrong....

Dennis M. in W. Tenn.

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Caryc

01-13-2020 18:29:16




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
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The purpose of these covers is to protect the rubber boots from the weather and sun rot on tractors that remain outside.

I don't care if you use them or not.



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showcrop

01-13-2020 18:17:54




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
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And then when you keep getting the water you know that it is condensation, LOL.



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Caryc

01-13-2020 18:09:06




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
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Here's a good idea how to protect those gear shift boots from the sun and weather.

These are on my MF202 but my 8N also has one on it's shift lever.

You can get what you need to make them at the plumbing isle in Home Depot. Just slip them on when not using the tractor.

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showcrop

01-13-2020 16:36:00




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
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Generally speaking water doesn't mix well with older type oils. The oil will rise above the oil. Newer oils with additives tend to absorb the moisture and hold onto it so that it is not likely to separate.



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DrLarryE

01-13-2020 15:58:01




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
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Neither one of them get nearly enough use to heat up enough to evaporate off the moisture. Both are stored out in the elements. The 9N has a new shifter boot and the 8N has an old raggedy one.

I'm not sure how much water is involved, but the fluid is foamy and 1 year it got slushy. Too much water.

As a side question, could the fluid be replaced and let the water settle off and reuse the old fluid?

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John Deere D

01-13-2020 12:29:57




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
Purchased my first "N" 18 months ago...2-N..

It had not ran for 30 + years...
It belonged to the original family who had it stored in a shed ...

I disassembled as per pictures.....tuned up engine and it runs perfect!

With hydraulic cover removed......removed all drain plugs....at 6 O'clock position...then installed drain plugs

Added kerosene....inserted 1/4" diam tubing into oil filler port on Transmission...connected to air compressor...allowed air to boil kerosene for several minutes...
Then inserted tubing into cavity below Hyd lift cover...boiled kerosene for several minutes...

Removed all drain plugs and allowed "Crap" to drain out...

Preformed the above three times....

Removed PTO shaft and dropped hydraulic pump and housing down and off Tractor......

Placed Crown and DIFF assembly in a cut off drum....submerged in kerosene and added air to kerosene ...boiled kerosene for several minutes....

Removed left axel housing removed "Crap" as per pictures...Added a lite coating of grease to all axel bearing races

Assembled everything....added oil ...Tractor has ran perfectly every Sunday in June, July ,August, Sept, cutting grass in Cemetery..

15-40 oil to Engine.... Specific for a diesel engine....

80/90 oil to Trans, Hyd, Diff...

Bob...


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Eman85

01-13-2020 10:07:36




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
How much water are we talking about? Is there a boot on the shift lever?



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showcrop

01-13-2020 09:33:59




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
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Well, the range of moderate is fairly broad and then the range of heat would be broadened by that much more. I have had the experience of transmissions of Ford tractors without decks getting very hot, to the extent that I can see the redness of the burn on my leg, so I would think that moisture would probably be driven off in 20 minutes or less under those conditions.

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showcrop

01-13-2020 04:42:09




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to drlarrye, 01-13-2020 03:29:40  
What is the relative use of the two. Using them heats them up and the moisture is driven off.



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HCooke

01-13-2020 08:26:04




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 Re: Water in Transmission in reply to showcrop, 01-13-2020 04:42:09  
Just curious, how long do you think you have to run the tractors at a moderate load to warm 6 gal of oil warm enough to drive off the moisture?



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