T0 Ferguson and ford N series whats the difference

(quoted from post at 01:21:55 09/06/19) The TO Ferguson looks very similar to
the Ford N series.


What are the differences between them

Thanks

They share a common design based on the 1939 Ford-Ferguson 9N joint venture between Henry Ford and Harry Ferguson. The TO tractor came about in 1942 (??) when that partnership came unglued and Ferguson started manufacturing the tractor in England. The most glaring difference is the engine. Ford-Ferguson used a flathead and after the split Ferguson adopted an OHV design. Ford stayed with the flathead up until the introduction of the NAA in 1953.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 03:02:21 09/06/19)
(quoted from post at 01:21:55 09/06/19) The TO Ferguson looks very similar to
the Ford N series.


What are the differences between them

Thanks

They share a common design based on the 1939 Ford-Ferguson 9N joint venture between Henry Ford and Harry Ferguson. The TO tractor came about in 1942 (??) when that partnership came unglued and Ferguson started manufacturing the tractor in England. The most glaring difference is the engine. Ford-Ferguson used a flathead and after the split Ferguson adopted an OHV design. Ford stayed with the flathead up until the introduction of the NAA in 1953.

TOH

Correction - TO20 production began in 1948 in Dearborn, MI.

TOH
 
TOH gave the basic answer, which I will add to. The Fergy has a Continental overhead valve engine which might be a bit more powerful(??) and a bit more efficient in fuel usage (??). While Ford stayed with their own flathead design and a most inconvenient front mount distributor until 1951 or 1952. Meanwhile the Fergy engine had a fairly common Delco distributor and electrical system. The hood on the Fergy tilts forward to access the gas tank, making the installation of a small loader more challenging. The N tractors have a fuel tank access door in the hood so the hood stays in place and helps to keep the radiator, fuel tank, and dash board joined together. The Fergy's tilt hood makes for easier access to engine and electrical parts for common repairs. I think there was some difference in the 2 tractors as to the arrangement of the brake pedals, but Ford changed their arrangement from what was on the 2N (1942 - 1947) when they built the 8N.

The important difference to a prospective owner now is the common failure of the Continental's engine block splitting in the middle due to overheating or freezing. In many aspects the Fergy's Z-120 engine was more robust than the Ford, but the Ford engine did not have this splitting problem. So the availability of replacement engines (or engine blocks) for the Fergy is rare. This problem was caused by the engine design. The Z-120 engine was a wet sleeve engine meaning very little through block casting metal. The Ford was a dry sleeve engine with cast structure surrounding every cylinder. Also there were enough 8Ns built, sold, and still in operation that aftermarket parts are commonly available. Much less so with the Fergy parts.

Paul in MN
 
Howdy Paul,
I hope you are well.
One thing I have sometimes wondered about is how the radius rods attach to the front axle.
The 9/2s had the RR attach to the axle knee.
This let you change wheel width settings by removing two bolts and moving the knee out (or in) without removing the bolt where the RR attaches to the axle. The 8Ns had the RR attach to the center axle which means two bolts plus one to move the RR - if needed.
Ford continued this inferior setup all through the 8s, NAAs, Hundreds and into the 3 cylinder Thousand series tractors. Then about 1973 or so they moved the RR back to the knee and continued with that setup till the demise of the wishbone front ends.
I've always wondered if that front RR attach point was something H Ferguson had a patent on and Ford was in trouble enough for the 3 point without adding another patent infringement to the mix so moved it. Then maybe moved it back to the original setup once Ferguson's patent ran out?
Just a bit of arcana that maybe the gurus here have thought about.
 
UD,

It seems like a long time since I been "on board" here. I have been working on a farmall H with one of my grandsons, and needed some info about the correct paint color for the H so I turned to the IH board. My Ford tractor stable has not shrunk, just added a 4600 diesel last summer. Now that is a stout tractor. It mows with the 6 ft. bush hog quite well. But I think I will have to get into the clutch on the 4600, but am putting off the inevitable as long as possible while trying to make some work space in my dirt floor pole barn. My most demanding current project is replacing the steering gear box on my Dodge snowplow truck. 32 years of rust has made that a nasty job.

Thought I might see you at Nowthen, I was there in the blacksmith shop on Friday. Maybe you wandered through on Sat?

Oldest son bought a BIG Ford last year. It is the 170 Hp front asst Genesis painted red and badged "Versatile". Nice to operate with the electric shift tranny. BUT.... mice got into the wiring behind the seat and ended up frying the tranny shift computer board. FNH wanted $6,000 for the board! Some place in Iowa repaired our board for $500 plus about $700 for the dealer diagnostics and installation and calibration. Now I am really convinced that the tractor technologies of the 60s and 70s is what I am satisfied with.

The city is hard pressing me to get out of their town. You would not recognize any of this area now. More on this when we talk. I am holding onto my "playground toys" and the playground. 47 years here.

Stay Well!


Paul in MN
 
Ultradog, wasn't there also something about that RR attachment
point and alignment? I seem to remember that on the 9N/2N
when the axle width was changed you were supposed to adjust the
alignment. Of course, this is off the top of my head, so grain of salt.

Let's also not forget that the 8N has position control on the 3PT.
9N/2N/TO20/TE20 did not. I don't think the TO30 did either.

My TO-35 Deluxe did have position control. In a very complex manner.
It also had a combination hood. The center opened like the Ford
Jubilee through x01 series to add gas and antifreeze, but also
tilted like the earlier Fergies. It only needed to be tilted for major
work or to get to the battery. So if you wanted to put a [b:fa5c5144af]solid[/b:fa5c5144af]
bumper on the front like so many Fords had, you only had to
remove the bumper when you needed to tilt the hood.

mvphoto42179.jpg
 
UD,

I knew about the radius rod location differences and realize that moving the 8N front wheel spacing means the need to correct the tow-in. But I don't do any row cropping with any of my tractors, so the advantage of the radius rod mounting holes being located on the knee has not even entered my mind. Yes, I have worked a bit on a 2N, but that issue never came up. The hydraulics advantages, the better brake axle seals, and the late 8N steering gear box outweighs by far the radius rod location disadvantage. I have a home made hydraulic press that I use to straighten bent radius rods. I have maybe straightened out a dozen, with 4 more needing similar attention.

Stop by sometime, like when you are going North. By the back roads, we are in a fairly straight line south of Rogers. In case you have misplaced the phone #, 7 six 3 -55 nine - 96 one eight. Coffee is always on.

Paul in MN
 
Good to talk with you Paul.
Thumbs up on your 4600. They are the best imo.
I recently sold some parts to my pal Kenny. Back half of a 4600, front from a 66 4000 gasser. Am helping him put it together. He has a very nice 4600 already so will sell this one.
Glad I'm still playing with little tractors - compared to something 170 hp.
Didn't get to Nowthen or Almelund this year. Went to Pioneer Power in LeSueur. Was disapointed. Only a couple/few Fords there.
Next year the FFCA National meet is there.
Always wanted to go and being it's this close I have no excuses.
Mark your calender.
Am rehabbing a 4200 here. Hoping to have it finished by then and will show it there. It's in a hundred pieces right now.
The reason I posted is I Still would like to know the reason Ford switched the location of the RRs in 1948 - then switched back in 1973. Maybe some day someone will have an answer.
I will call you.
Jerry
 

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