New 8n owner & general tractor noob w/ projects

scubasteve20

New User
Hi everyone. The greatest woman in the world found a way to gift me a well-used 8n for Valentine's day yesterday. *AWESOME* For light farming use on our new little 8 acre homestead. I've never owned a tractor, driven several back in the day. I'm very mechanically & electrically inclined but these old systems are a little out of my wheelhouse. I need some help getting her right.

I've done the basic research to figure out what parts I'm dealing with somewhat. This left me very confused...

Backstory: I believe it to be a 1947 tractor with front mount dist. Previous owner can't tell me much about it other than he's had it about 50 years, no recollection about what mechanics & friends have done to it over the years & he's not super mechanically inclined. He's used a truck to pull start it the last few years (claims bad flywheel, have doubts about that), it sat for 8 months & pull starting wouldn't work yesterday. Had dead battery, fresh gas in it, smelled fuel vapors coming out of exhaust when pulling, all mechanics rotate properly, engine has some compression, not sure how much. Seemed like no spark. Sounded like engine was running while being pulled in gear with clutch out, never got a pop that sounded like ignition fired.

Figured old ignition problems so we pushed her onto the trailer and hauled her home. Upon further inspection, it has an added round coil feeding into the original coil (all old parts, done a while ago), retains points and condenser, I removed the distributor already to verify. Also, has an alternator sloppily added but I can't find any other evidence of a 12v conversion. I have no idea how to tell... are there 6v alternators?, and if so, would anyone do that?

I'm not sure where to start. I know I need ignition work & probably charging work too. I don't even know if I need a 6v or 12v battery at this point, no markings on current battery. It's configured for POS ground still.
Photos attached in hopes that they'll help figure out what I should do.

I'm fine keeping a points/condenser ignition but would prefer to have an alternator vs generator. I'll throw some decent money at it to make it work well and rework whatever I need to. Thanks in advance for any ideas and help y'all can toss my way. If it landed in your lap, what would you do with it?


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Check for continuity across the points as long as you have the dist.out I've seen the round coil conversion before,it actually does work,you probably have a 12
volt system,check the battery to see if it has 3 fill caps or 6,3 means 6 volt,looks like a 12 volt alt.I would try to get spark first,it is possible that you
have a bad ring gear on the flywheel,easy to change and not that pricey,you will have to split the tractor,less than a half day job.If there's no ballast resistor
in line could be burnt points or Pertronix makes a module for front mount dist and you can use the round coil,does the starter engage with a good battery?You may
have a bad bendix on the starter and the flywheel is O.K.I would try to jump it with a good battery first and if the starter doesn't work go from there,if it does
turn over put a jumper wire to the coil and see if you have spark after you make sure the points are firing and get back with results.
 
Try easiest first. Charge the battery overnight and check for spark. Get some good fresh fuel and a shot of starting fluid. Also try about 1 o2 seconds of
choke. If ya get some pop you aren?t far off.
 
Thanks guys, y'all confirmed a few of my suspicions. I guess I need to clarify a few things associated with my dilemma...

A couple of the dist cap terminals and plug wire ends disintegrated in my hands upon inspection. So A full ignition tuneup is in order before I can even hope to start her. I'm leaning towards doing this with OE style parts. I'm fine dealing with points instead of EI. Did plenty of reading on that & don't want to troubleshoot an EI system on top of whatever else is going on. I'm wondering if I should continue with the current coil mods or put it all back to stock. I'll read out the coil & points tomorrow.

The alternator is quite old. The case is nearly corroded through and has a quarter size hole busted in the side of it. I have doubts it would work even if everything else was perfect. The original voltage reg is still hooked up but I haven't chased wires yet to verify. I'm going out to get another look at the battery now.

Who makes GOOD replacement points & condensers? I've read enough to find out that there's plenty of crappy replacement parts out there.
 
There are 6V, positive ground alternators as well as 12V, positive ground alternators out there. Do you have a voltmeter that you could use to measure battery voltage?
 
OK, more photos attached, not sure they help. I'd love to throw a charger on and see what happens. However, I've got no idea what voltage to throw at the battery. It's been dead a long time I doubt it would charge. There are no indicative markings or vent holes to hint at voltage. Also, as mentioned before, the ignition system is shot. After going back out to inspect the battery, I can see the where the dist cap failed. It shattered at the terminals and was pieced back together with silicone at some point. I need to replace ignition components and figure out what battery to get. I'm 100% certain it will need a new battery anyway.

How about this?.... Get new charging system with harness & battery. Go back to completely stock ignition system and go from there. $250 or so? I'm not a fan of blowing money on parts but it needs some already for sure. I tried (and maybe failed) to explain how I can't just start at the easy stuff quite yet. Hope I clarified now. Thank you very much for your replies so far.
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Here's my 2 cents. Battery is beyond hope so get a new 12 volt battery. Go to salvage yard and get a alternator (make them test it for you). To make your distributor happy use good quality parts an go back to stock. Your local auto parts store should carry Blue Streak ignition parts here are the numbers you need.

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Sounds like you may need some new copper core plug wires and a 12 volt coil too. May have to do a little shopping but you may still come in under $250.
 
Hello Scubasteve this sight carries most of the parts you will ever need to keep your n working and it is always good to help support the forum. Look at far left of the page near the top under marketplace click on parts and good luck. BTW these guys here are a wealth of knowledge and are always willing to help, look for Bruce va and his 75 tips and get yourself a FO 4 shop manual that covers 9n 2n 8n it is well worth it. Again Good luck.
 
How about this?.... Get new charging system with harness & battery. Go back to completely stock ignition system and go from there. $250 or so?

It's your money but if it were mine I wouldn't spend any money on a new charging system and harness before I determined whether the engine had good compression, actually ran and didn't smoke like a chimney.

A $10 voltmeter/multimeter from Walmart will tell you whether you have a 6 volt or 12 volt battery. If I determined I had 12 volt battery all I would do is temporarily swap in my car battery and use it to run a compression test on the engine. If compression was good then I would go out and purchase whatever ignition parts were necessary to get it running. If it ran good and didn't smoke then I would spend the money on a new charging system and harness. I wouldn't want to throw a bunch of money at something the previous owner didn't know much about.
 
NAPA and a few other auto part stores (see Farmer Dan above) sell the best parts -USA Made -for the front mount distributor. You want Blue Streak and/or ECHLIN. Most other suppliers sell the cheap Cheena made junk. Wiring harnesses at nnalert. 12V/NEG GRN (I'd go with a NEG GRN if 12V) is okay, just be sure it is wired correctly. That means no generator and no voltage regulator, OEM Ballast Resistor in the circuit, external 1-OHM resistor added if OEM 6V coil is used, omit if changed to a 12V coil. Get battery and alt tested at local starter shop. Replace battery if bad with a good brand -avoid wallyworld/tsc junk. ALT can be rebuilt by starter shop. Get the essential manuals -important tools to have. Go to the NTC site and download WIRING PICTOGRAMS BY JMOR -also an essential tool. Download a copy of "75 Tips For N-Owners" by Bruce(VA) and read all religiously.

FORD 8N TRACTOR ESSENTIAL OWNER/OPERATOR/PARTS/SERVICE MANUALS:
<a href="https://imgur.com/qI9P22k">
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</a>​

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)
 
Simply 'charging' the battery doesn't mean it is good -have it tested. If a battery won't sustain a full charge UNDER LOAD, it is useless. By your picture I see the OEM Voltage Regulator which means since you say it is 12V your wiring is completely mucked up to start with so you already have big time issues besides the battery. That air cleaner isn't OEM for the 8N either, but not anything to do with the electrical system. If you're going to keep it 12V -do it right. See my post below. BTW, ain't nuthin' wrong with keeping it OEM 6V/POS GRN too. There's but a handful of good reasons to change to 12V but I have yet to have any need nor desire to do so. My N's all run just fine on 6V/POS GRN as God intended. You need to get WIRING PICTOGRAMS BY JMOR for the correct 12V change diagram. The Ignition Key Switch is wired in with one wire to the bottom terminal junction post on the ballast resistor and the other switch wire to the RH resistor post as viewed from the front. Get the essential manuals too.

FORD 8N OEM FRONT MOUNT DIST WIRING SYSTEM; 6V/POS GRN:
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Tim Daley(MI)
 
Hi Scubasteve20, welcome to the world of N tractors. I see some of the guys are telling you to measure the voltage of the battery. How can one do that if it's stone dead? They may be available, but I've never seen a 6 volt battery without vent caps. Look at the top of that round coil. Does it say 6 or 12 volts? That might help. However, I would bet that if the P.O. converted it to an alternator, it is a 12 volt. There may be nothing wrong with the ring gear, but it might have a weak or even a broken starter drive. It is probably cheaper to keep it 12 volts at this point. 6 volt batteries are more expensive. A new alternator or a used one like someone suggested is cheaper than a 6 volt alternator if you could find one. I think you are on the right track though. Get rid of the round coil conversion, rewire it properly. You can check compression with a loaner battery, if the starter will turn the engine over. You might have to address that first. Keep us informed. There's lots of help available. Oh yeah, while you are at it toss the scrap iron that is keeping the alternator belt tight. What a cluster f***!
 
(quoted from post at 10:47:36 02/14/19)I see some of the guys are telling you to measure the voltage of the battery. How can one do that if it's stone dead?

Even if a battery has been dead for a long time it's highly unlikely it's going to read 0.0 volts. For example one time my 9N voltage cutout failed in the closed position. When the cutout failed the battery discharged through the generator windings. It was like that for at least a week. When I went to start it the starter wouldn’t even turn the motor over at all, the battery was dead and it still read 5.9 volts (6.3 – 6.4 volts is fully charged on my 6V battery). Even if the OP’s battery has been dead for a long time it will still read a voltage. If he reads any voltage above 6.5 volts then that tells him he has a 12 volt. If he owns a tractor he needs a voltmeter anyway so why not spend the 10 bucks and check it himself? That’s an easy verification.

They may be available, but I've never seen a 6 volt battery without vent caps.

That's a good point, all the 6 volt group 1 batteries I've seen have had vent caps.

It is probably cheaper to keep it 12 volts at this point. 6 volt batteries are more expensive.

I've seen people post this here in the past but this hasn't been my experience. I just did a quick search online and found these. I tried to keep it apples to apples by searching for the group size an N tractor takes and comparing batteries with the same CCA ratings:
12V, 640 CCA Group 35 Everstart battery from Walmart $93.76
6V, 640 CCA Group 1 Duracell battery from Batteriesplus $79.99 with 10% off if you buy online and pick up in store. If he already has a 12 volt I would keep it 12 volt though.

Oh yeah, while you are at it toss the scrap iron that is keeping the alternator belt tight. What a cluster f***!

I wholeheartedly concur, Bubba did a horrible job with the alternator conversion.
 
(quoted from post at 14:57:39 02/14/19)

12V, 640 CCA Group 35 Everstart battery from Walmart $93.76

i'm not a walmart hater, but i would be VERY reluctant to spend a hundred bucks on a battery brand i've heard more than once referred to as Neverstart - by people who did buy one.
 
Steve...lots of good advise so far, my two cents, don't do as I did, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Mission creep will set in and you'll end up spending way more money on this than it's worth. You really can't do much (I.E. check compression and spark) until you get it to crank. Go get you a new battery, hook it up per JMOR's diagrams and see if the starter, Bendix and ring gear are any good. Once you get it to crank then check compression and spark etc.
If you have an Autozone nearby you can get a remanufactured Delco 10SI alternator for about $40.
Also, I've had 2 of those round coil converts and IMO if done properly they work just fine.
If you're any good with metal working you can build a nice alternator bracket or you can but them from here already made.
One last thing, if the crab pot dizzy cap nipples are broken on the bottom it could mean that the front axel pin is badly worn
 
(quoted from post at 12:32:54 02/14/19)
(quoted from post at 14:57:39 02/14/19)

12V, 640 CCA Group 35 Everstart battery from Walmart $93.76

i'm not a walmart hater, but i would be VERY reluctant to spend a hundred bucks on a battery brand i've heard more than once referred to as Neverstart - by people who did buy one.

I would be too, I was only using that battery as an example that 6 volt batteries aren't really more expensive than 12 volt batteries for an N tractor if you shop around. In that particular example the cheap 12 volt wally world battery was actually $20 more than the equivalent 6 volt battery.
 
I have recently got my 8N just before Christmas 2018, and like you will be working on it to get it in shape, already got a list of what I want to accomplish this spring and summer, going to start slow, but think I can do it, keep in touch with our accomplishments.
 
You've got a keeper (the lady). If you can convince her to make this an annual event ... ;-)

Enjoy the tractor!
 
Excellent advice all. (as far as I can tell anyway). Thanks!

The other day, after some projects, I left my rather expensive Fluke 77III Multimeter within reach of the dog and my leads are now
strewn about the yard in little pieces. I'll craft some temporary ones this weekend in between fatherly duties. I'm going to assume
I need a 12v battery and just go get one, I have other uses for it anyway if it's not right. Are the Tractor Supply ignition parts
any good? I have them nearby. NAPA is quite a bit farther. The list of stuff I need for sure is: plug wires, points & condenser,
dizzy cap, battery. That battery hasn't seen a charge in years. I'm replacing it no matter what just for reliability's sake.

The engine ran strong and smoke-free last time it was run according to the previous owner (my lady's grandfather) and he has no
reason to tell me a fib.... the tractor was a gift.

What's the worst that'll happen if I chuck a 12v battery in there? I don't think it'll do any more damage than already done. Maybe
a coil or ballast resistor at most?
 

long story short, you're unlikely to damage anything in the ignition. if u turn on headlights that happen to be 6 volts, you'll let the smoke out of them in short order.
 
I went out to hunt down my backup cheapie meter, low and behold.... I bestowed it with a proper set of Fluke leads at some point. Sweet!

I get 5.2v from the disconnected battery. Doesn't really tell me anything for sure. I don't have a charger with me.

The headlights have long ago been replace, they're disconnected and both read open.

I'm going to read the coil &amp; go get parts today. I'll report back later.
 
I'm going to read the coil &amp; go get parts today. I'll report back later.

Your starting , charging , and ignition systems share a battery but are independent from each other .

First step would be to get the starter working and see if you are building oil pressure .

Second step would be the ignition system . Remove the two bolts holding the distributor and take it to the work bench . A test light or meter will confirm the points are functioning , your eye ball may see them opening and closing but that doesnt mean they are working . You can assemble the distributor , cap , rotor , coil , wires , spark plugs ( grounded to the neg ) and bench test the whole system .

Third would be the charging system . Your battery will likely start and run the tractor for a few days on a full charge .

A battery maintainer or smart charger will likely extend the battery life 25 - 50%

I bought a smart charger that starts at 6 amps and decreases as the charge level increases and shuts off when the battery charge reaches 100% . I personally like the big led display that tells me the % of charge , volts , amps , and the $15 delivered price . I just bought a 4dlt for the diesel 3000 and want to keep it maintained . This has been working well for a few months now . I pull it and make a run threw the mowers , tiller , etc about every other week end .

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Smart-Fast...RK:MEBIDX:IT&amp;_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

They sell these with a EU or US plug , make sure you get the US plug .
 
(quoted from post at 06:45:29 02/15/19) I went out to hunt down my backup cheapie meter, low and behold.... I bestowed it with a proper set of Fluke leads at some point. Sweet!

I get 5.2v from the disconnected battery. Doesn't really tell me anything for sure. I don't have a charger with me.

The headlights have long ago been replace, they're disconnected and both read open.

I'm going to read the coil &amp; go get parts today. I'll report back later.

The 5.2V unfortunately doesn't help but the headlights could actually tell you if it's 6V or 12V if you're still able to read part numbers off of them. My 6V 9N uses 4019 headlights, a 12V would have 4419 bulbs.
 
OK. I got to catch up with previous owner today. Says it was converted to 12v pos gnd long ago &amp; he still has original generator. No idea the condition but its mine when I can go pick it up.

I went out and got a battery, points, condenser, can coil, rotor, &amp; cap from Napa. Copper core wires and Autolite 437 plugs from TSC.

The old plug wire terminals were falling apart. Old can coil secondary contact rusted to oblivion. Getting ready to spend a good weather Florida night in the shop seeing what I can do. Hopefully a little bendix love can get the starter engaged. I'll let y'all know. Thanks again so far!
 
Put your 12V battery in negative ground and disconnect the
alternator. Look at the connections at the voltage regulator.
They may have used it simply as a terminal block.

Once you get the starting circuit to work, you can work on the
charging circuit, but all semi-modern non-modified alternators
are negative ground. Hooking the battery up positive ground will
fry the alternator before you can do anything with it.

Nothing wrong with the round can coil conversion. If you go back
to the original square can coil, you will want an OEM style ballast
resistor in line with the coil. Not one of the white ceramic ones.
If using 12V, a Napa IC-14SB or equivalent round can would not
require any resistors.

Blown headlights may indicate they were 6V and turned on with
12V power applied. Of course, that is a "may" indicate.
 
OK Folks...... SHE RUNS!!!! And she runs well!

Replaced everything I listed and fired her right up. A little smoke for 30 seconds and purrs like a kitten.

I wish I saw the post about disconnecting the alternator before I got going.

Swapped all the parts, cleaned all connections, put new battery in. She ran well. When off, smoke wafted from the alternator. On a whim, I switched it to negative ground and the smoke from the alternator stopped. I should've figured it was switched that way when the conversion was done. I assumed I was out a charging system anyway so no loss there. Regardless, it doesn't charge when running now. I'll go ahead and order a new 12v conversion kit with harness now that I know she runs strong. 4th gear is faster than I would ever need. Hydraulics go up &amp; down and PTO works.

Next up, a carb/fuel system rebuild... she'll only run for a minute or 2 at a time until I let more fuel trickle down. Also, the aforementioned charging system. Somehow, the original voltage regulator and ballast resistor are still in play. I don't get it and I don't care to figure out why. I'll just spend the hundred bucks and know I have something that works.

Anyone care to offer opinions on the best 12v conversion kit?

These old machines are amazing, after being put through hell for so long &amp; still runs like a top. Been a long time since I had to set points and terminate plug wires but soooo worth it. Can't thank you all enough for your help! I'm sure I'll need more.
 
Also, forgot to mention there are dead spots on the ring gear. A slight turn of the crank allows the starter to engage when that happens. Workable, but annoying. I'll be looking to break her in half in the near future.
 
Next up, a carb/fuel system rebuild... she'll only run for a minute or 2 at a time until I let more fuel trickle down.
Great news!

Cleaning the sediment bowl inlet (the fuel supply valve in the gas tank) may solve your fuel flow problem. Mine was so gunked up with 60+ years of debris it wouldn't let fuel through. It's a good opportunity to flush the gas tank, too. I was amazed at how much crap was in the tank.

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Well, no carb kit locally. It would be prudent to go ahead and clean things first anyway. That's on the agenda for today!
 
(quoted from post at 11:09:53 02/16/19) Also, forgot to mention there are dead spots on the ring gear. A slight turn of the crank allows the starter to engage when that happens. Workable, but annoying. I'll be looking to break her in half in the near future.
he engine has favorite spots it likes to stop and the ring gear wears more in those places. You can lug it in 4th gear to kill it and it might not die in a wore spot just remember to turn of the key.
 
I just removed God knows how many insect carcasses from the inlet to the sediment filter, gave her a good cleaning. I don't think it's ever been done. Flushed the tank too. Spent the last 20 mins doing laps around the house with the kiddos. No need to touch the carb yet. There's a hole in the exhaust pipe pointing at my right foot that's pretty annoying after a few minutes. TSC had one in stock. There's zero brakes. The right brake pedal is totally locked up &amp; the left moves but doesn't do anything. Luckily I'm on flat land. I'll start a new thread if I run into trouble with those.

Thank you all for the advice &amp; suggestions. In 3 days I went from knowing nothing about tractors to learning most of what I need to know about mine.
 

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