2n resister

Garryllk

Member

Hi again

I got all the parts in the distributor and back on the tractor with a new coil.

They sent a resister with the parts But on my tractor there is no resister I can find ,Took the battery out and nothing on the fire wall or any where else. ? does it need the new one spliced in ? The new coil is 12 v instead of 6 v I talked to harry at yesterdays tractor and he said it needs it

Thank You

Garry
 

Hi

What they sent was the ceramic one about 3 inches long

The other thing I saw is the power wire from the switch goes to the annotator not the coil Its always been this way< It doesn't look like the wire going to the coil is not connected to anything Should I connect it to the altanator ?

I just tried to start it and it started right away but barely idle then quit and wont start now
 
(quoted from post at 17:21:34 02/08/19)
Yes you need the resistor that should be on the engine side of the dash. Not the white ceramic resistor.
his #12250 resistor (below ammeter):
lAHuW5J.jpg
 

I connected the wire from the coil that was not connected to anything to the alternator on the post that the hot wire from the switch is connected.

I set the throttle 3/4 open and it started right up Had to choke it 3/4 to but it ran smooth for a min. then just died like you turned off the switch ,Wont start now. Any ideas ?
 
The problem with guessing about where a wire goes is that electrons are not very forgiving about polarity reversals and shorts to ground. For example, wiring an alternator backwards usually gets you a door stop.

Google " wiring diagrams JMOR " before you let the smoke out of something.

Re the resistor, while Ray-Ray or your Uncle Earl might tell you that the correct resistor for a 12v front coil is the white ceramic one, it isn't. See tip # 30. All you need is the oem ballast resistor as in JMOR's pic.
75 Tips
 

Mid 40's 2N with a gm one wire 10si 12V coil per YT Mag

He has a wiring mess no ammeter
no oem resistor.

Alternator, coil, ran thru a toggle on off switch been that way for years...

It runs fires right up throttle at 3/4 choke applied.

Problem it runs for a minuet are so knocks off like you turned the switch off...

Decision time is it spark are fuel... He says good fuel flow out drain in carb...

Its time to determine spark are fuel when the event happens.

Spray brake cleaner in the carb inlet does it run when the event happens if so its fuel if no its a spark issue...

For now it runs no need to fudge with what works till issue resolved (yes I know it needs wiring repair and a OEM resistor.

Its a confusing mess lets try and pic it apart.

He needs JMOR wiring diagram 9N/2N one wire alt.



He needs instructions on how to ohm out his coil to confirm its a 12 volt coil. (just for the ell of it)

He needs a OEM resistor

He needs a wiring harness.

He needs Royce are Tim to ring in with email are phone number so he can send carb for a rebuild if he has to go their...
 
My coil bit the dust today. We were pulling a drag harrow to clean up the pasture from all the leaves. Just flat died. Carb drain showed plenty gas, pulled a plug wire...nothing..so towed it to the barn. Later saw I was getting 12v to the coil, so pulled it and had a big crack on the side. Time to quit guessing. There are so many parts out there, need to verify what we have. I had a 12250 ballast b/w the ign switch and coil, but never ohmed out the coil to see if I also needed a 10306 ceramic ballast. It ran 6 months like this with no problems. Got a new coil coming that is supposed to be internally resisted, so should not need a 10306, just the 12250, but I'll ohm it out to make sure. From Jmor's wiring diagram, if coil is .7 to 1.5 Ohms, I need both 12250 and 10306. If coil is 2.5 to 3 ohms, only need 12250 between ignition switch and coil. I understand both resistors are .5 - .6 ohms (assuming cold). Including some info from Bruce to put numbers to it. Someone shout if I missed something.

An old post from Bruce.

"....as to whether the resistor should be removed or not when replacing a 6v to 12v coil. "
What resistor are you talking about? If you are referring to the OEM ballast resistor on top of the terminal block, the answer is no. If there is another resistor in the circuit in order to use a 6v coil, the answer is yes, remove it.
Technology &amp; materials being what they were in the 30's, that square coil would melt if it ran on much more than 4 amps for any length of time. (see tip # 38 for an example). In order to get a hot spark at the same time the starter was drawing max current from the battery, a ballast resistor was added in the ignition circuit. What that did was add about .3 ohms of resistance in the circuit, added to the 1.5 ohms of the coil. That got you 3.5 amps or so at start up. As the voltage increased when the engine was running to about 7.5 volts, the resistor heated up, adding more resistance in the circuit. 1.0 ohms hot, plus 1.5 ohms of the coil got you down to 3 amps or so to keep from melting the coil. The same rule (actually, Ohm's Law) applies to a 12v circuit. I= E/R. Current equals voltage divided by resistance.
It used to be before the "Land of Almost Right" started making coils that you could count on a 12v frontmount coil as having 3 ohms of internal resistance &amp; the 6v coils as having 1.5 ohms or less. Thus, thanks to Ohm's Law, you could calculate what additional resistance you needed in the circuit to limit coil current to 3.5 amps. So, you can assume that your 12v coil has 2.5 ohms or more internal resistance or you can measure it. A digital multi-meter has two probes &amp; a switch. Set the switch on resistance. Put one probe on the top of the coil &amp; the other on the pigtail at the bottom. It will give you a reading in ohms. Lets just say it reads 3.0 ohms. Your OEM ballast resistor (which you must use) is about 1 ohm hot. A coil a 3.0 ohms, plus the ballast resistor at 1 ohm (hot) gives you 4.0 ohms resistance in the circuit. Your 12 volt alternator puts out 14.5 volts. You need to determine current (amps). 14.5 v divided by 4.0 ohms gets you 3.6 amps; that's ok. But, and this is the problem......what if the coil is only 2 ohms? Do the math. 14.5 volts divided by 3.0 ohms gets you 4.8 amps! Not good! And, if the coil is less than 2 ohms (and some are) it will fry quickly. So, to get it to 3.5 amps, you need another resistor in the circuit. Either that, or keep spare $30 coil around."
 
(quoted from post at 00:18:29 02/11/19) My coil bit the dust today. We were pulling a drag harrow to clean up the pasture from all the leaves. Just flat died. Carb drain showed plenty gas, pulled a plug wire...nothing..so towed it to the barn. Later saw I was getting 12v to the coil, so pulled it and had a big crack on the side. Time to quit guessing. There are so many parts out there, need to verify what we have. I had a 12250 ballast b/w the ign switch and coil, but never ohmed out the coil to see if I also needed a 10306 ceramic ballast. It ran 6 months like this with no problems. Got a new coil coming that is supposed to be internally resisted, so should not need a 10306, just the 12250, but I'll ohm it out to make sure. From Jmor's wiring diagram, if coil is .7 to 1.5 Ohms, I need both 12250 and 10306. If coil is 2.5 to 3 ohms, only need 12250 between ignition switch and coil. I understand both resistors are .5 - .6 ohms (assuming cold). Including some info from Bruce to put numbers to it. Someone shout if I missed something.

An old post from Bruce.

"....as to whether the resistor should be removed or not when replacing a 6v to 12v coil. "
What resistor are you talking about? If you are referring to the OEM ballast resistor on top of the terminal block, the answer is no. If there is another resistor in the circuit in order to use a 6v coil, the answer is yes, remove it.
Technology &amp; materials being what they were in the 30's, that square coil would melt if it ran on much more than 4 amps for any length of time. (see tip # 38 for an example). In order to get a hot spark at the same time the starter was drawing max current from the battery, a ballast resistor was added in the ignition circuit. What that did was add about .3 ohms of resistance in the circuit, added to the 1.5 ohms of the coil. That got you 3.5 amps or so at start up. As the voltage increased when the engine was running to about 7.5 volts, the resistor heated up, adding more resistance in the circuit. 1.0 ohms hot, plus 1.5 ohms of the coil got you down to 3 amps or so to keep from melting the coil. The same rule (actually, Ohm's Law) applies to a 12v circuit. I= E/R. Current equals voltage divided by resistance.
It used to be before the "Land of Almost Right" started making coils that you could count on a 12v frontmount coil as having 3 ohms of internal resistance &amp; the 6v coils as having 1.5 ohms or less. Thus, thanks to Ohm's Law, you could calculate what additional resistance you needed in the circuit to limit coil current to 3.5 amps. So, you can assume that your 12v coil has 2.5 ohms or more internal resistance or you can measure it. A digital multi-meter has two probes &amp; a switch. Set the switch on resistance. Put one probe on the top of the coil &amp; the other on the pigtail at the bottom. It will give you a reading in ohms. Lets just say it reads 3.0 ohms. Your OEM ballast resistor (which you must use) is about 1 ohm hot. A coil a 3.0 ohms, plus the ballast resistor at 1 ohm (hot) gives you 4.0 ohms resistance in the circuit. Your 12 volt alternator puts out 14.5 volts. You need to determine current (amps). 14.5 v divided by 4.0 ohms gets you 3.6 amps; that's ok. But, and this is the problem......what if the coil is only 2 ohms? Do the math. 14.5 volts divided by 3.0 ohms gets you 4.8 amps! Not good! And, if the coil is less than 2 ohms (and some are) it will fry quickly. So, to get it to 3.5 amps, you need another resistor in the circuit. Either that, or keep spare $30 coil around."
verything you are saying is for a stalled engine, points closed, ignition switch ON. When running, the average current is less than 1.5 amperes, because the points are closed ~33% of the time &amp; open ~ 67% of the time AND during the closed time the current is not a constant high, but rather an exponentially rising zero to ~4 amperes over that 33% of the time. It isn't as critical as most seem to believe. If you really want to know, completely forget 'calculations' and simply insert an ammeter in coil primary wire and measure current. No guessing or assumptions required.
 
(quoted from post at 10:07:35 02/09/19)
Mid 40's 2N with a gm one wire 10si 12V coil per YT Mag/quote]

I believe he also has a carb problem and need to have it looked at. This should be the diagram he need to fix the wiring (from JMOR):

VoQo4jb.jpg
 

Allen, you are all most right. There is no such animal as an internaly resisted coil. That's why we need to add one or in rare cases two. All the other info you have is correct.
 

Dan, log on or check your Styner catalog for N parts, they exclusively offer this option. I will await your discovery.
 
Hobo, Your diagram is missing the 10306 resistor. It has only the 12250 block resistor b/w the ign. and the coil. The 10306 may or may not be needed depending on the coil resistance. These are YT part numbers.

For you guys that actually use an N tractor, what is a good lifespan for a coil that is drawing the correct amperage in a 12 volt conversion on an N. Like I said, I bet I had 100 hours on that coil. I've always thought if they were drawing too many amps they wouldn't last an hour.
 

That's the one he needs now someone post the pix showing how to ohm out the coil...

Carb/ignition problem to be determined once he builds a battle plan...
 
(quoted from post at 08:18:02 02/11/19) Hobo, Your diagram is missing the 10306 resistor. It has only the 12250 block resistor b/w the ign. and the coil. The 10306 may or may not be needed depending on the coil resistance. These are YT part numbers.

For you guys that actually use an N tractor, what is a good lifespan for a coil that is drawing the correct amperage in a 12 volt conversion on an N. Like I said, I bet I had 100 hours on that coil. I've always thought if they were drawing too many amps they wouldn't last an hour.
) you never know what the resistance will be when you buy #10106 resistors, as they have been found to have values with more than a 3: 1 variance....just a crap shoot. 2 ) Steiner says, "internally resisted" (fail to specify resistance), but I wouldn't bet a dime on that without properly measuring one. Nearly all vendors sell such coils with 2.5 Ohms resistance that work just fine with only the OEM 12250 resistor. These are not "internally resisted", but rather wound with the length of a gauge of wire that results in 2.5 Ohms.
3) No, an 'extra'resistor is not missing for my [u:3706d34fc4]12V conversion diagram [/u:3706d34fc4], as that diagram was made for use/inclusion with a particular 12v conversion kit that comes with, alternator, belt, mounting brackets, harness, and proper 2.5 Ohm coil.
 
(quoted from post at 08:18:02 02/11/19)

For you guys that actually use an N tractor, what is a good lifespan for a coil that is drawing the correct amperage in a 12 volt conversion on an N. Like I said, I bet I had 100 hours on that coil. I've always thought if they were drawing too many amps they wouldn't last an hour.

i have somewhere between 150 and 200 hours on a 12 volt conversion with no additional ceramic resister and the [b:c417eed744][i:c417eed744]six volt coil[/i:c417eed744][/b:c417eed744] it came with.

people who say you'll burn it up in some short time period are wrong. i won't sit here and claim it won't happen - but i know it doesn't necessarily happen any time soon.
 
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see1) you never know what the resistance will be when you buy #10106 resistors, as they have been found to have values with more than a 3: 1 variance....just a crap shoot. 2 ) Steiner says, "internally resisted" (fail to specify resistance), but I wouldn't bet a dime on that without properly measuring one. Nearly all vendors sell such coils with 2.5 Ohms resistance that work just fine with only the OEM 12250 resistor. These are not "internally resisted", but rather wound with the length of a gauge of wire that results in 2.5 Ohms.

3) No, an 'extra'resistor is not missing for my 12V conversion diagram , as that diagram was made for use/inclusion with a particular 12v conversion kit that comes with, alternator, belt, mounting brackets, harness, and proper 2.5 Ohm coil.
 
(quoted from post at 05:07:50 02/11/19)
Dan, log on or check your Styner catalog for N parts, they exclusively offer this option. I will await your discovery.

That is their problem not mine and your if you believe them. Remember just like YT their job is to sell parts and to advertise so that you will buy it.
 
(quoted from post at 11:54:56 02/11/19)
(quoted from post at 08:18:02 02/11/19)

For you guys that actually use an N tractor, what is a good lifespan for a coil that is drawing the correct amperage in a 12 volt conversion on an N. Like I said, I bet I had 100 hours on that coil. I've always thought if they were drawing too many amps they wouldn't last an hour.

i have somewhere between 150 and 200 hours on a 12 volt conversion with no additional ceramic resister and the [b:5646560d3d][i:5646560d3d]six volt coil[/i:5646560d3d][/b:5646560d3d] it came with.

people who say you'll burn it up in some short time period are wrong. i won't sit here and claim it won't happen - but i know it doesn't necessarily happen any time soon.
rimarily because as long as you keep it running (not ON &amp; stalled), the power (heat) into coil is only one twentieth of a steady ON condition. Not 4a X 7.5v= 30 Watts, but more like 1.5 Watts.
 
(quoted from post at 14:08:21 02/11/19)
(quoted from post at 11:54:56 02/11/19)
(quoted from post at 08:18:02 02/11/19)

For you guys that actually use an N tractor, what is a good lifespan for a coil that is drawing the correct amperage in a 12 volt conversion on an N. Like I said, I bet I had 100 hours on that coil. I've always thought if they were drawing too many amps they wouldn't last an hour.

i have somewhere between 150 and 200 hours on a 12 volt conversion with no additional ceramic resister and the [b:e3e648e547][i:e3e648e547]six volt coil[/i:e3e648e547][/b:e3e648e547] it came with.

people who say you'll burn it up in some short time period are wrong. i won't sit here and claim it won't happen - but i know it doesn't necessarily happen any time soon.
rimarily because as long as you keep it running (not ON &amp; stalled), the power (heat) into coil is only one twentieth of a steady ON condition. Not 4a X 7.5v= 30 Watts, but more like 1.5 Watts.
[b:e3e648e547]Correction[/b:e3e648e547] that should read, "...into coil is only about twenty percent....", not "one twentieth". Which makes the 1.5 Watts, about 6 Watts.
 
(quoted from post at 14:08:21 02/11/19)
(quoted from post at 11:54:56 02/11/19)
(quoted from post at 08:18:02 02/11/19)

For you guys that actually use an N tractor, what is a good lifespan for a coil that is drawing the correct amperage in a 12 volt conversion on an N. Like I said, I bet I had 100 hours on that coil. I've always thought if they were drawing too many amps they wouldn't last an hour.

i have somewhere between 150 and 200 hours on a 12 volt conversion with no additional ceramic resister and the [b:ad33251003][i:ad33251003]six volt coil[/i:ad33251003][/b:ad33251003] it came with.

people who say you'll burn it up in some short time period are wrong. i won't sit here and claim it won't happen - but i know it doesn't necessarily happen any time soon.
rimarily because as long as you keep it running (not ON &amp; stalled), the power (heat) into coil is only one twentieth of a steady ON condition. Not 4a X 7.5v= 30 Watts, but more like 1.5 Watts.

that makes sense. i've never done it on the ford, but i have left the ignition on on my WD - it had a simple toggle switch. i got lucky and only killed the already marginal battery. it happened in the dead of winter and it froze it. i needed to replace the ford's key switch anyway, so i got 2 from here. now i have one key for both and i know i don't ever want to see it in either tractor if they aren't running. so far so good, 1 year in the books with no oosps :)
 
(quoted from post at 06:28:15 02/11/19)
That's the one he needs now someone post the pix showing how to ohm out the coil...

Carb/ignition problem to be determined once he builds a battle plan...

Copied this pic from one of Bruce's old posts. This would be a 6 volt coil, the 12 volt coil will measure 2.5 ohms.

dOB3EGY.jpg
 

Thanks FD he found the issue the resistor was opening up on'em...
By passed it and he's off to plow'N snow...

I rigged him up a wiring harness for a one wire alt with the OEM resistor... Y'all would be proud of me I cut up some thin plywood to simulate the amp meter screwed the wires to it in and pre-wired in a new resistor and labeled the other connections...

It should be plug and play...

I had a one wire alt kit for a 2N I was going to copy the diagram fer'em ell I could not make heads are tails of it what a mess they made of the wiring diagram...
 

You should take a pic Hobo of your handy work. Don't have to be pretty as long as it works.


So the problem was a faulty resistor pn 12250, that was getting hot or vibrating and opening, then cooling off and closing allowing to restart. That's a new one, at least to me. And you replaced it with a pn 10306 ceramic block and he's off to the races. Right ? Let us know how it works out.
 

BTW his 80 year old neighbor suggested by passing/wrapping a wire around the unknown resistor...

Boom back in businesses...
 
(quoted from post at 21:46:24 02/11/19)
BTW his 80 year old neighbor suggested by passing/wrapping a wire around the unknown resistor...

Boom back in businesses...
one of the last several posts make any sense to me. HE SAID INITIALLY THAT HE HAD COIL CONNECTED TO ALTERNATOR STUD. So, no resistor at all. So where does all this open resistor, etc. crap come from???????
 
(quoted from post at 10:36:08 02/11/19)
Dan, advertising is one thing, lieing is something else entirely. I have one coming so we’ll see.


Nobody is lying. They are just ignorant. The coil does not have an internal resistor. Coil resistance is determined by the wire gauge and number of turns. It's just easier to tell the ignorant public that it has a resistor than to explain Ohm's Law in an ad.
 

All the add says is that the 12V coil is internally resisted and you do not need a second resistor (pn 10306). Easy Peasy. It is twice as much as the YT coil and I got one of them coming as well to satisfy my curiosity and to have a backup.
 

Update it ran 30 min yesterday would not fire off today... He's in Minnesota working under a lean-to with a mountain of snow on the ground and to compound maters a front mount dist with a loader on it... BRRRRRRRRRR....

Its difficult to get his terminology of the issue... Give that old man a break he's trying his best...

I did recommend a new 4x4 Bota :wink:
 

Hobo, if he's running an old stinky gas tank without a filter in front of the carb, you may be right about the fuel issues. He shakes enough gunk loose that it works it way to the carb or clogs the fuel line.

I second the Bota suggestion....plus a cab and fel

Question for the brain trust - Will a bad coil (mine has a crack down the side) still test for resistance ? I tested mine today and showed a steady 2.5 Ohms. I was getting no spark at the plugs, but 12 volts to the coil.
 

A bad ohm reading confirms its bad a good ohm reading does not confirm its good... Sorry but that's the way it izz...

Its Coil time... Crack confirms it...
 
JMOR and Bruce, where did you guys find that these front mount coils need to run at less than 4 amps?

Also, JMOR how did you come up with the 1/3 2/3 figures for points?
 
(quoted from post at 05:32:06 02/13/19) JMOR and Bruce, where did you guys find that these front mount coils need to run at less than 4 amps?

Also, JMOR how did you come up with the 1/3 2/3 figures for points?

The oem Ford spec for the coil and ballast resistor &amp; Ohm's Law.
 

Thanks Bruce. I should be able to put my hands on those electrical specs. I’ll search for ‘em, but can you point me in the right direction.

Gary, by no means did I intend to hijack your post. The collective we need to get you up and running. Let us know what is happening.
 
Manuals typically give either dwell angle in degrees or dwell as a percentage. Either way you can arrive at percent of time points are closed and percent open and for 4 cylinder engines it is about 1/3, 2/3. 4A for points/coil systems is almost universal. Bruce gave the N specific answer.
 
OEM resistor is .3 cold, 1.7 ohms hot.

OEM coil was .3 to .7 ohms.

Total running resistance was 2 - 2.4 ohms.

That's 3.125 - 3.75 amps, according to Ohms Law. Less than 4 amps is the main point.
 

Nuttin wrong with the question in fact it needs to be asked more...
I am guilty of not falling back on ohms law and not by myself...

I made a post 12/14 are so years back asking about the same question I wanted to know the truth about Dells magic use of two 1-Ohm Wirewound Resistor trick...

A=V÷R (I had to google how to add the ÷ symbol) he he

Google Ohms law
 

Nutt'in wrong with the question in fact it needs to be asked more...
I am guilty of not falling back on ohms law and not by myself...

I made a post 12/14 are so years back asking about the same question I wanted to know the truth about Dells magic use of two 1-Ohm Wirewound Resistor trick...

A=V÷R (I had to google how to add the ÷ symbol) he he

Google Ohms law
 


Nutt'in wrong with the question in fact it needs to be asked more...
I am guilty of not falling back on ohms law and not by myself...

I made a post 12/14 are so years back asking about the same question I wanted to know the truth about Dells magic use of two 1-Ohm Wirewound Resistor trick...

A=V (divided)R (I had to google how to add the (divide) symbol) he he YT won't let me add it...

Google Ohms law
 

Thanks for digging those up Hobo. And here we are a decade plus later without a simple 3 sentence idiot proof response to help us keep these wonderful old tractors gainfully employed. With all the degrees of freedom around this topic, I am rapidly converging on just adding an ammeter on that coil wire to eliminate doubt. I personally prefer a voltmeter on the dash to keep an eye on the batt/alternator health, but gonna have to find a spot for an good ammeter and a temp gauge. If you guys have a fancy multi gauge mounting solution(beyond dash holes), please share it with us.
 

Well yes we have use the OEM ballast on both 6 and 12V square can coils.... Even Dell's famous resistors do the same thang...
Dell had a name fer his, Infamous I think...
 
(quoted from post at 22:13:28 02/13/19)

If you guys have a fancy multi gauge mounting solution(beyond dash holes), please share it with us.

depends on what u consider fancy ;)

my temp gauge is held to a 3" angle bracket with a large hose clamp. the other side of the bracket is fastened to the aft-facing side of the tool box - seems to me i shortened that leg. cautious arrangement of wires relative to steering is recommended.
 
(quoted from post at 22:13:28 02/13/19)
Thanks for digging those up Hobo. And here we are a decade plus later without a simple 3 sentence idiot proof response to help us keep these wonderful old tractors gainfully employed. With all the degrees of freedom around this topic, I am rapidly converging on just adding an ammeter on that coil wire to eliminate doubt. I personally prefer a voltmeter on the dash to keep an eye on the batt/alternator health, but gonna have to find a spot for an good ammeter and a temp gauge. If you guys have a fancy multi gauge mounting solution(beyond dash holes), please share it with us.
ot true. People either do not read or listen. Use the 12250 resistor with a 6v coil on 6v systems, or the 12v coil on the 12v systems. All my diagrams show that &amp; all of Bruce's posts &amp; tips say the same. Just do it.
 
And if you find one of these get rid of it. I found this in my 9N when I first bought it in 2003. Its been in my tool box every since as a reminder. She has been running fine since then with the OEM resistor only and a 12 volt coil.

CrgOqnC.jpg
 

I indeed do have a 12250 resistor on my 12V system exactly as the diagram shows, and I have a ~1000 pound paper weight sitting in my barn with a fried coil that I had to tow from the pasture.
 

That works HFJ. As a temporary solution, I've got one of those $10 harbor freight gauge sets zip tied under the hood. that I can't see from the seat for temp, and one of those lawnmower sparkplug wire tach's clamped on top of the steering column. Effective, but looks pretty red neck. I'll bet a cup of coffee someone out there figured out a way to mount 2-3 gauges that looks almost OEM.
 
(quoted from post at 08:06:53 02/14/19)
I indeed do have a 12250 resistor on my 12V system exactly as the diagram shows, and I have a ~1000 pound paper weight sitting in my barn with a fried coil that I had to tow from the pasture.
ow do you "a fried coil"?
 
(quoted from post at 10:23:31 02/14/19)

It’s got a 1/8 “ crack top to bottom on housing. Getting 12 volts to cool. No spark to plugs.
ow long did it sit not running with ignition ON?
 
. Zero. I started it and we went right to work. We had been working for an hour. Try to never leave key on and stalled.
 
(quoted from post at 11:18:03 02/14/19) . Zero. I started it and we went right to work. We had been working for an hour. Try to never leave key on and stalled.
didn't mean this time when it failed, but any time during which this coil has been installed on the tractor. By the way, how long has that been?
 

I have had that coil on for about a year. All same setup. I may have left the key on and stalled in the past. I honestly can’t remember doing so in the last 3 or so months. Keep a trickle charger on at all times.
 
Well got my new coil today. Happy to see it tested at 2.5 ohms. Put it on. No spark. Dang it to heck. Still getting 12 v to the coil. Too many other projects today so couldn't do more. Tomorrow I'll take the distributor off and dig in a little deeper.

So this tractor (45 2N) starts every time after turning over once or twice. It was hard to start the day it died in the pasture on me with no spark. What do you guys think my problem is ?
 
A few years ago, my neighbor mentioned to me that he had diagnosed a no spark condition on his 8N and fixed it by replacing the coil. I asked him if I could
have the old coil. I put it on one of my tractors were it remains today.?



I don't know why his tractor had no spark. I don't know why it ran after he replaced the coil. But I do know the coil on the tractor wasn't defective.?



Your coil was cracked, so we can assume it is defective. And, for the moment, lets assume the new coil is good.




Assuming further that the bushings & advance weights are ok (*see below), & that you have correct voltage to the coil , the most common reasons for no spark
or a weak spark on the front distributor are below.?Check?each one carefully. Even if you find a problem,?check?all 10:

1. The insulator under the brass concave head screw & where the copper strip attaches. (it's fiber & will wear out; poke & prod w/ your meter leads to make
sure it still works) If you need to replace the insulator, use a .250 x 3/8 nylon square nylon anchor nut available at most big box home stores.

2. The pigtail at the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the concave head brass screw inside the distributor. (With the coil on, the pigtail must firmly
contact the brass screw. No contact = no spark) Check?for? continuity? between the top of the coil and the pig tail; a 6 volt coil will be around 1 ohm & a 12
volt coil should be 2 to 3 ohms.

3. The copper strip is broken or grounded to the plate. (look very carefully for cracks & breaks) .

4. The distributor is not grounded to the block because of paint or grease acting as an insulator. Or the points plate is covered in oil.

5. The tab on the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the brass button on the cap. (With the cap on, the tab must firmly contact the brass button. No
contact = no spark.) Check?for?continuity?between the top of the coil and the tab; you should see about 6k ohms.

6. A grounding issue inside the distributor: Incorrect positioning of the spring clip on the plate causing the pigtail to ground. (the open part of the clip
goes between 7 & 9 o'clock on the plate. That puts the straight part of the clip opposite of the timing screw at 3 o'clock) or the condenser wire is grounding
to the plate or side of the distributor.

7. Incorrect seating of the coil on the distributor due to a loose bail or no gasket.(the coil must not move at all; if it does, replace the gasket or bail.
Or stick some cardboard under the bail).

8. Water/moisture inside the cap due to gasket failure or the absence of a gasket. (the cap AND coil have gaskets)

9. Dirty/corroded/burned/incorrectly gapped or misaligned points. I use only Wells, Blue Streak or Echlin brand points (* *see below). If you are using
quality points and cannot get the gap to open to .015, chances are you need to replace the bushings. If the shaft has any sideways movement AT ALL, the
bushings must be replaced. (*** see below) If the tractor has been sitting unused for a few months, it?s highly likely that the points are glazed. Dress them
with brown paper or card stock. Do NOT use a file or sandpaper. That removes the thin metallic coating on the surface and reduces point life considerably.
With the points closed, you should have?continuity?between them; high resistance means they are glazed.

10. Burned rotor, cracked/carbon tracked cap. Brass ?dust? in the cap is a sure sign of bushing wear.

After find the problem & re-check?the point gap, do a continuity?check?before you put the distributor back on the tractor. Before you start, make sure your
meter/light works.

With the distributor still off the tractor, follow these steps:

1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should
have?continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have?continuity?everywhere because the points are grounded.

2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no?continuity! Now,
rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have?continuity(closed) and lose it when they open.

3. Put the coil on the distributor, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You
should have?continuity!

4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have
no?continuity!

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or
coil misaligned trying to put it back together, one piece at a time. The result is something gets broken or you get a 'no spark' problem.

It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. Whatever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to
match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts). Place the distributor on the front of the
engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt
holes line up. Hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush with the timing gear cover.

* Unscrew the plate hold down screw & remove the C clip to get the plate out. Remove the shaft & weights. The weights should freely move. The tracks should
not be wallowed out.



** Yesterday's Tractor kit:

Premium Blue Streak points (A0NN12107ABS), rotor, condenser, and gauge Part
No: APN12000ABSR


** Distributor cam lube NAPA:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHML1

*** There are three ways to replace the bushings in a front distributor:

1. Buy new bushings (part numbers 9N12120 front & 18-12132 rear). Press out the old ones, press in the new ones and ream to fit. CAUTION: do not try this
unless you have a press & know how to use it. If you break the base, a new one costs $130. If you bend the tower which holds the front bushing, a new plate
will cost you $30. Resist the temptation to buy a new plate; most are pot metal and the threads will wallow out about the third time you change the points.

2. Take the new bushings and distributor to your local machine shop.

3. Send the distributor out for bushing replacement if you do not have a local machine shop
75 Tips
 
Thanks Bruce. Pulled my distributor off. When I pulled the cap off quickly found my problem. The electrical contact on top of the rotor was broken (see pic). I assume this is rare, as it is not on any of Bruce's list. So now, what I was thinking was a too large current situation on the coil, is actually a mechanical issue that caused the crack in the side of the coil.


mvphoto31584.jpg
 

It would differently cause the coil to work overtime and cause it to heat up more than under normal conditions... When you think you know it all and can write up a comprehensive articular on it they will humble you...

Garry emailed me the points were the issue with the help of a friend they got it going... I think they were pitted they cleaned them it fired up and running good for now...
 
Yep, that's the first time I've ever seen a spring tab actually break off. I've seen them burnt & worn, but never broken. It's more common for the stationary
tab to break from worn bushing or failure to set the rotor correctly on the shaft.

Glad it was an easy fix.

" what I was thinking was a too large current situation on the coil,". I think that is exactly what caused the coil to crack.
75 Tips
 

Garry emailed me again it ran three hours the next day went to start it a no start... He removed the dist cap dried it out and back up moving snow.. Damm Ft Mt garbage...
 
(quoted from post at 20:27:09 02/18/19)
Garry emailed me again it ran three hours the next day went to start it a no start... He removed the dist cap dried it out and back up moving snow.. Damm Ft Mt garbage...
ell, ......the picture of the cap he posted had NO gasket!
 

Not allenlane Garry the original poster... Its a topic with two much info and someone elses problem that has nuttin to do with it added in...
 
(quoted from post at 08:38:55 02/19/19)
Not allenlane Garry the original poster... Its a topic with two much info and someone elses problem that has nuttin to do with it added in...
ou got that right! 11 days &amp; 70 replies &amp; multi-problems. Been time for a new thread for too long.
 
(quoted from post at 08:11:33 02/19/19)
(quoted from post at 08:38:55 02/19/19)
Not allenlane Garry the original poster... Its a topic with two much info and someone elses problem that has nuttin to do with it added in...
ou got that right! 11 days &amp; 70 replies &amp; multi-problems. Been time for a new thread for too long.

Yea, a textbook example of hijacking a thread. :(
 
Been busy for a while and just saw this. Settle down boys and come off those high horses. We are very small community of fellas working on old tractors we are not curing cancer. So ease up on the rude comments and silly rules. Don't scare folks away that need help and may be reluctant to get on here in the first place. Suspect that's why OP bowed out.

If you take the 30 seconds to actually look back at the thread both problems started with what we thought were resistor issues and evolved into something else. That is very much the real world of folks learning about these old tractors. I think there is much more value and keeping all the trials and tribulations on a specific issue (electrical/ignition in this case) in one spot vs. chopping it up into bite size pieces. You don't buy books by the chapter. Of all people, you two should know how prominent electrical issues on 12V conversions have been over the years.

My problem is solved, nothing to do with the resistor as it turns out, but I think folks would still like to know what the root cause of OP's (Gary) issue was and if he got it solved.
 

You had a good question no problem with that I did not have a problem with your other post at all it just muddy the water a little...

The problem I see with most of these post izzz Damm keep it simple keep the diagnosis simple ask questions don't fly off the bat with to much INFO in your mind you may think its the way to go but you are dealing with someone who's lost...

For the most, most mean well... You would enjoy a beer with them...

Garry quizzed me on voltmeter readings at the coil someone said this someone said dat and I am a voltmeter lubber I told him to trash that damm voltmeter it complicated his mind set on getting it going :)

Front mounts are mean you can not open the cap and see whats going with it on the tractor its just like a up-draft carb you can not see whats happen on the other side... GRRRRRRRRRRR

There's hope tho convert it to a Bob's external coil... I am doing one now just got the cap done...



https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1011423&amp;highlight=coil
 
(quoted from post at 22:47:50 02/21/19)
You had a good question no problem with that I did not have a problem with your other post at all it just muddy the water a little...

The problem I see with most of these post izzz Damm keep it simple keep the diagnosis simple ask questions don't fly off the bat with to much INFO in your mind you may think its the way to go but you are dealing with someone who's lost...

For the most, most mean well... You would enjoy a beer with them...

Garry quizzed me on voltmeter readings at the coil someone said this someone said dat and I am a voltmeter lubber I told him to trash that damm voltmeter it complicated his mind set on getting it going :)

Front mounts are mean you can not open the cap and see whats going with it on the tractor its just like a up-draft carb you can not see whats happen on the other side... GRRRRRRRRRRR

There's hope tho convert it to a Bob's external coil... I am doing one now just got the cap done...



https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1011423&amp;highlight=coil
ot to worry Hobo, it is usually just a bunch of blokes stumbling around in the dark grabbing at straws. :cry:
 

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