48 side dist. Ready for an upgrade

docmirror

Well-known Member
I put a Pertronix breakerless ignition plate in my JD and it works flawlessly. Considering the same for my 8N. I can take the dist out and put it back in pretty well, but setting the points every 40-50 hours is getting old. Also, getting a bit hard to start in the cold weather.

Batt is fresh, plugs are good, carb is well in tune. I can start it when cold, but takes a bit of cranking, and fiddling.

Have you put the ignitor in? Did you go with the ext coil offered in the kit? I'm thinking of just the pickup igniter, and leave the coil on the cap as stock.

Suggestions welcome, except telling me to just keep adjusting points. Laying on my side, with a mirror and stubby screwdriver and feeler gauge is nogo.
 
No, I'm not going to tell you to keep adjusting points. Not wanting to keep adjusting points is a perfectly legitimate reason to install EI.

That being said...??..

" Laying on my side, with a mirror and stubby screwdriver and feeler gauge is nogo" is not how points are adjusted on a front distributor tractor. If it were, all 3 of my frontmount 8N's would have had EI 20 years go.
75 Tips
 
Doc Mirror,You should be a wizz at adjusting points with a handle like Dr.Mirror You said,adjusting points. Laying on my side, with a mirror and stubby screwdriver and feeler gauge.NO NO NO!
Just remove the two 5/16" bolts and remove the distributor and work/replace and set the points .015 in the house on the table where it is warm.The distributor only goes in one way because it has a offset tang that drives it from the camshaft.You have what is known as a front mount distributor on a 48 N Ford,the side mount did not come out till late 1950 model year.I have found that the best improvement for a front mount is convert the wimpy spark coil to a robust round can coil that has a lot more spark..
 
I guess there must be a lot of folks around these days that have never seen a flathead Ford V-8 made before 1949! At least the tractor only has one set of points to deal with!
75 Tips
 

I would eliminate all the problems with coil on cap issues... Actually I would eliminate them if you stay with coil on cap and points... See Bob's upgrade...

This would be the best damm thang you could do to a front mount dist other than junk the tractor... You eliminate two problem areas with Bob's conversion that are well overlooked...



https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1371222&highlight=cap


I have dabbled with gutting coils to make an external coil conversion all's well till you forget to turn the key off the heat takes the sprig tension out of the coil spring thingy then you are fudged looking for the problem...
 
Why only 40-50 hours? Point gap closing up? Use a good quality point rubbing block lube. Burned points? Do you have the correct ballast resistor? I have a 48 8N that I use summer and winter (not a lot but always starts) that has had the same untouched points in it for about 15 years. I did install a new set last spring after having the old coil fail. I kept the old set for an emergency as they were in good shape. It is a 12 volt conversion about 20+ years ago. I was taught how to change points when I was about 12-13 on the farm. I understand points and will never go to EI.
 
(quoted from post at 19:57:48 01/26/19) Why only 40-50 hours? Point gap closing up? Use a good quality point rubbing block lube. Burned points? Do you have the correct ballast resistor? I have a 48 8N that I use summer and winter (not a lot but always starts) that has had the same untouched points in it for about 15 years. I did install a new set last spring after having the old coil fail. I kept the old set for an emergency as they were in good shape. It is a 12 volt conversion about 20+ years ago. I was taught how to change points when I was about 12-13 on the farm. I understand points and will never go to EI.

And - we are 0 for 5.

However, I'm very happy for you.
 
Doc,
Something doesn't compute for me here.
Your title says it's a 48 which should be
a front mount but you also state it is a
side mount.
Which distributer do you have?
 
Good comments given. Many of us here suspect you have a front mount distributor (...laying on my side with a mirror and stubby screwdriver...) and model year means nothing really. Do you have a copy of the 8N Operator's Manual and the I&T FO-4 Manual? It is obvious you are doing something wrong, "...setting the points every 40-50 hours..." HUH? When done correctly and with quality parts, points should last at least 5-6 years. PM means cleaning and checking once a year. So break it down into sections. Distributor -remove and perform tune-up on your kitchen table. "Battery is fresh" -what does that mean? A good brand battery (INTERSTATE, DEKA, EAST PENN, DURACELL) that will sustain a full charge under load is the first step in the electrical system. Take it to A starter/alternator shop or auto parts store to be tested on their machine. You don't say if currently 6V/POS GRN or 12V NEG/GRN. With the front mount distributor, and using either 6V or 12V, you must use the OEM Ballast Resistor in the circuit. If it's 12V, the OEM generator and voltage regulator are removed and an alternator installed. If 12V and the OEM 6V coil is used, you need to add an external 1-OHM ceramic resistor in the circuit. If 12V, you can swap square coil for a 12V coil and no need for the external resistor. Keep in mind that most electrical issues are due to incorrect wiring regardless if they are 6V or 12V. The OEM 6V/POS GRN system works fine. Some choose to convert to 12V/NEG GRN and there's nothing wrong with that if done correctly and for the right reasons. Ditto for switching to EI. There are a handful of good reasons to convert but to think 12V or even EI will fix a non-starting issue is a false assumption. Again, 99.98% of all non-starting issues are due to incorrect wiring jobs. I'm simply saying that no matter which electrical system you choose to go with, be certain you have it wired correctly and don't skip steps. If it ain't running now, I would find the true root cause and fix it before just buying a new EI setup and swapping out parts. Get the correct wiring diagrams for reference -JMOR's WIRING PICTOGRAMS on the NTC site for one, FO-4 and OEM manuals as well. I suggest you get it running right now starting with a battery check, a wiring check, and a correctly done tune-up. You may just surprise yourself and save that extra $$$ for the girlfriend on Valentines Day.



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I use good quality ignition parts, Blue Streak or Echlin and average three years before I have to touch the distributor again. Don't forget to put lube on the block and cam.

l4oxy08.jpg
 
YES, and as noted on your card these are the NAPA part numbers. I buy all my parts there now as they are all Made In The USA except the ECHLIN points, made in Mexico but still beats made in cheena. My last set of TISCO points lasted 6 years. These had the plastic rubbing block too. The one good thing about TISCO is you get a little .015" feeler gage in the front mount point kit.

TPD
 
I put one in my 601 three years ago and have not looked back. I was having to replace the points 2 to 3 times a year and I was using NAPA
quality points! I think the problem was the extreme humidity where the tractor is stored.
 

Front Mount Distributor facts


Real men replace their points in the shop with the dist. chucked in a vice where they have test equipment to confirm a successful operation not on the kitchen table... My god what have our men turned into...

Real men find TDC mark the crank pulley and time them with a timing light if you go with EI and there is nuttin wrong with that you are gonna have to become a real man and find TDC....

Why make the same mistake over and over again? Why its the nature of real men to eliminate troublesome areas so they don't have to replete the same process over and over again...

Front Mount Dist are not old man friendly as they are made out to be if I owned one it would have EI and a coil on cap eliminator...
 
Real men replace their points in the shop with the dist. chucked in a vice where they have test equipment to confirm a successful operation not on the kitchen table... My god what have our men turned into...
HEY! I once ported a 4-cylinder head and intake manifold on the dining room table. Young, living in an apartment and no other place to work. Drop cloths kept the mess down. Fortunately no one was around to enjoy it with me. :D
 
(quoted from post at 06:30:00 01/27/19) I put one in my 601 three years ago and have not looked back. I was having to replace the points 2 to 3 times a year and I was using NAPA
quality points! I think the problem was the extreme humidity where the tractor is stored.

Finally, we have a bit of good info. Thanks, I guess this is all I'm going to get WRT the use of the Pertronix deal.
 
(quoted from post at 07:35:02 01/27/19)


Real men replace their points in the shop with the dist. chucked in a vice where they have test equipment to confirm a successful operation not on the kitchen table... My god what have our men turned into...
.

I'm not generally one to swing my shwang at anyone, but for the benefit of this poster I'll give a little taste.

The Lamborghini Espada is fitted with a Marelli V12, dual track, 4 point, 2 coil ignition system. With vacuum and mech advance.

I'm likely one of the few people in the country who can setup and time this dist correctly so that the car will run right. Not just that, but it also the engine also has SIX in-line, dual throat down draft, or six dual throat side draft Weber carbs which need to be balanced and tuned together. The dist and carb tuning job is between 8-12 shop hours.

And yes, my dist is front mount not side. I'm just tired of setting, checking, adjusting, in the cold wet ground. I'm working in an off-grid location where I do have a small shed/shop, but removing the dist, taking to the shop, setting it up, and then putting back in is just as much TIME as me laying down and doing it on the tractor. I'm old, I'm tired, I'm cold, and have had enough when I want the darn thing to run and get the work done.

Dist lower right corner. Compared to Ford, it's light years beyond. And yes, pertronix makes a ignitor for the Marelli unit.

https://www.ebay.com/motors/blog/ebay-listing-a-stunning-1968-lamborghini-espada/
 
Doc,
The topic of EI has been a VERY
contentious one here over the years.
I have never installed EI on an N.
I did install the pertronix kit in a 1968
3 cylinder 3000. I got excellent service
from it.
I drove that tractor for about 6 years and
never once had to open the distributer
cap.
I then sold that tractor to a guy who
would call me on occasion just to yack or
for advice on implements or tire chains
and such. I would always ask how "my"
tractor was doing. That guy kept it for
about 6 or 7 years and in that time he
never had to touch the distributer.
Then he sold it and I have lost track of
it.
I have been running diesels almost
exclusively since then but now have
another 3 cylinder Ford gasser. I
purchased the Pertronix EI kit for it and
will install it when I take that tractor
in hand for a refurbishing this summer.
Everything I have written thus far has
been "nothing but the facts Ma'am".
Here are couple of my opinions:
1) Based on my limited personal experience
I think the Pertronix electronic ignition
conversion is well worth the money -
especially on a tractor where the points
are a PIA to get to.
2) It is nobody's business why you wish to
convert and you do not need a "good
reason" to do it. It is your tractor and
your money. I say do it and enjoy the
advantages.

cvphoto11021.jpg
 
Good testimonial for electronic ignition all right!

I'm still searching for a 6 cylinder engine from the 50's that wasn't a "straight 6". I've seen a straight eight though. :D
 
(quoted from post at 12:42:13 01/28/19) Good testimonial for electronic ignition all right!

I'm still searching for a 6 cylinder engine from the 50's that wasn't a "straight 6". I've seen a straight eight though. :D

GMC produced a V6 from the late 50s with a 6 journal crank. One of the best, and torquiest engines ever built. It did not get good fuel econ, but ran hard, and strong for many years in pretty big trucks. I think it was 360-430CI but don't quote me on that.
 
Was that the engine they had in the
commercial where they drained the swimming
pool with the engine's water pump?
It seems that engine had overheating
problems and GMC made that commercial to
"prove" they had fixed the problem.
Ran it WOT and drained the pool in like 4
hours.
I remember it as a kid - very early 60s.
I was So impressed. Now? Not so much.
A guy I worked with back in the mid 70s
had that V6 in about a 62 GMC 3/4 T.
It got about 8 mpg - on a good day with a
tail wind.
He was Very happy when he sold it and
bought about a 1970 C 10 Chevy.
 
(quoted from post at 18:53:16 01/28/19) Was that the engine they had in the
commercial where they drained the swimming
pool with the engine's water pump?
It seems that engine had overheating
problems and GMC made that commercial to
"prove" they had fixed the problem.
Ran it WOT and drained the pool in like 4
hours.
He was Very happy when he sold it and
bought about a 1970 C 10 Chevy.

Interesting!
My point was that because there was only ever a "straight" six for public consumption — one that the public was aware of — in the 50's, it's superfluous to to qualify my 235 as a "straight six" and nobody ever referred to them as "straight sixes". No point in calling 50's 6 cyl engines "straight" until the advent of the V-6 option only available much later. I think it was a derivative misapplication that stemmed from the straight 8.

When people ask me if the engine in my 51 is a "straight six" I say, "No, it's a crooked 6." It makes about that much sense to me. :D
 
Interesting!
My point was that because there was only ever a "straight" six for public consumption — one that the public was aware of — in the 50's, it's superfluous to to qualify my 235 as a "straight six" and nobody ever referred to them as "straight sixes". No point in calling 50's 6 cyl engines "straight" until the advent of the V-6 option only available much later. I think it was a derivative misapplication that stemmed from the straight 8.

When people ask me if the engine in my 51 is a "straight six" I say, "No, it's a crooked 6." It makes about that much sense to me. :D

I'm the 'public' and I know if a V6 from the 50s.
 

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