Kirk-NJ Howard parts

riveroadrat

Well-known Member
Kirk, do you still have one of those Howard trannys? I need to know the length of the yoke on the bottom shaft.I actually need one but i bought a tranny and don't know if its the right piece. Can you modify the bottom piece off a regular tranny to work with the howard? Emails open.
 
(quoted from post at 14:59:34 01/27/19) Kirk, do you still have one of those Howard trannys? I need to know the length of the yoke on the bottom shaft.I actually need one but i bought a tranny and don't know if its the right piece. Can you modify the bottom piece off a regular tranny to work with the howard? Emails open.

In your previous post you identified the part you need as item J in the installation diagram. That is the PTO shifter casting. The Howard came with a customized casting that did not have a support for the PTO shifter rail which would interfere with the Howard gear box. In addition to the custom casting Howard provided a redesigned PTO shifter linkage that did not need the OEM support.

If you don't have the Howard casting it may be possible to use an OEM casting by simply cutting that support off but I cannot guarantee that is the only difference or that the modified casting will work. Here is a picture of a modifcation to the OEM casting I did many years ago for a different purpose. As you can see I removed the PTO shift rail support and the two ears on the end. In your case you would only need to remove the support. A 4" angle grinder with a cutoff wheel will make short work of it. Used OEM castings are plentiful and inexpensive so it's a cheap experiment.

TOH

IMG_0878.jpg
 
Willy-N posted pics of his setup on 12/01/2002 but the part in his pic looks just like the one on my tranny, no ears cutoff. The man that wanted to buy mine said the J part was a shortened version of the OEM Ford part. I am wondering if the Howard company just cut them off as you suggested. But the pics of Willy-N's part isnt cutoff. Maybe he needed to cut it off before installing. https://photos.yesterdaystractors.com/gallery/pieces/v100.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 17:13:24 01/27/19) Willy-N posted pics of his setup on 12/01/2002 but the part in his pic looks just like the one on my tranny, no ears cutoff. The man that wanted to buy mine said the J part was a shortened version of the OEM Ford part. I am wondering if the Howard company just cut them off as you suggested. But the pics of Willy-N's part isnt cutoff. Maybe he needed to cut it off before installing. https://photos.yesterdaystractors.com/gallery/pieces/v100.jpg

Go back and read what I said. The Howard part has the ears but no support for the PTO shifter rail. That is what distinguishes it from the OEM part. I cut the ears off in my picture so I could rotate the housing and reroute the shifter rail down the side.

I cant say with 100 percent certainty but the ears fit inside the pump so I would expect the length of the Howard casting to be exactly the same as the OEM.

TOH
 
The only one I have is in a tractor not to be pulled.From what you are saying if I understanding you right you do not have the pto support housing for the howard and are looking to use a standard housing by cutting off the shifter rail support. I have always bought and sold units complete so Iv'e never had to piece them together so I have not done this but looking at it I don't see why it couldn't be done. If you look at my photo you will notice that the slot for the fork sits a little further down on the web then the slot on the standard pto support so you might have to cut a bit out but I would try it first as is to see if it would work.

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I see that Kirk's has the ears and the bearing is at the back. Your bearing is at the back without the ears. did you reposition the bearing and snapring? The one in Kirk's picture looks just like the one on the back of the tranny i bought separately from the howard. Kirk, can you get to yours easily enough to give me the length from the tranny case to the end of the J part?
 
(quoted from post at 12:21:27 01/28/19) I see that Kirk's has the ears and the bearing is at the back. Your bearing is at the back without the ears. did you reposition the bearing and snapring? The one in Kirk's picture looks just like the one on the back of the tranny i bought separately from the howard. Kirk, can you get to yours easily enough to give me the length from the tranny case to the end of the J part?

You are making this overly complicated. The ONLY modifications on mine are the removal of the shift rail support and ears. The internals are 100% OEM. The J part is going to be the same length as OEM because it has to accommodate the internals and fit into the recess in the pump. If you have a housing without the shift rail support it is almost surely the Howard part. I don't know where the guy you spoke with got his idea the Howard part was shorter but I find it highly suspect for the reasons above.

At this point I am confused on what you are trying to accomplish. What do you have or not have and what do you want to do? Pictures are helpful.

TOH
 
No can do. Tractor is up at the deer camp 2 hrs away and won't be going up until spring. I'm pretty sure it's going to be the same as a standard one, cant see how it wouldn't be.
 
(quoted from post at 12:21:27 01/28/19) I see that Kirk's has the ears and the bearing is at the back. Your bearing is at the back without the ears. did you reposition the bearing and snapring? The one in Kirk's picture looks just like the one on the back of the tranny i bought separately from the howard. Kirk, can you get to yours easily enough to give me the length from the tranny case to the end of the J part?

Here is a picture of an OEM housing. It is currently Buy It Now on eBay for $3 + $14 shipping. These things are plentiful and dirt cheap so experimentation is not expensive. Use a 4" cutoff wheel to remove the pedestal that supports the PTO shifter rail. I'll give you good odds it is ready to go on a Howard with at most a little additional grinding on the periphery.

TOH

s-l400.jpg
 
The tranny that I just bought has that bottom shaft thing that looks just like Kirk's and Willy-N's. It doesn't have that shifter mechanism on it. The man that wants to buy my Howard said he needed that part number J he calls a yoke. I'll send a pic later of the one I do have.
 
(quoted from post at 16:53:57 01/28/19) The tranny that I just bought has that bottom shaft thing that looks just like Kirk's and Willy-N's. It doesn't have that shifter mechanism on it. The man that wants to buy my Howard said he needed that part number J he calls a yoke. I'll send a pic later of the one I do have.

[list:28b8f1114c][*:28b8f1114c]So where is this Howard you are selling - sitting on the bench in a shop or on a tractor? If on a tractor the PTO shifter housing and all external linkage is part of the Howard package[*:28b8f1114c]Your buyer cannot use the OEM housing on his tractor with the Howard. He needs the Howard version because the shifter rail support on the OEM housing interferes with the Howard case. [*:28b8f1114c] If all you have is the Howard sitting in a box and no PTO shifter housing then you need to think about modifying an OEM shifter housing for use with the Howard. That means you also have to have the special Howard PTO selector fork that goes on the bottom back of the gear box (part D20 in the parts list). If that part is MIA you are pretty much up the creek.[/list:u:28b8f1114c]
Post pictures of what you have so we can figure out what you have and what if anything is missing.

TOH
 
Well, my tranny has that shifter mechanism broke off. That's why it looked different. I just have it on fleabay and he said he needed that piece. I sent him here to search things out. I was wondering how he was going to fix those chewed gears. he has decided that with the chewed gears, it's not worth the trouble. I thank you all for your help.
 
Not enough good parts to make it worth while, And I though mine has some teeth damage! good luck on selling it.
 
Here is his link. He has the shifter rail. The rest looks pretty bad even though he does say "for parts". PO's did a lot of shift on the fly with that trans.
Ebay link
 
(quoted from post at 05:37:52 01/29/19) Here is his link. He has the shifter rail. The rest looks pretty bad even though he does say "for parts". PO's did a lot of shift on the fly with that trans.
Ebay link

Well somebody bought it. I put in a bid figuring that at $100 I'd have a whack at making new gears but apparently it was worth more as parts ;-)

TOH
 
I thought about cutting the bad ones off and welding new gears on and harden the weld. you can contact him on fleabay and ask how he plans to fix it.
 
(quoted from post at 10:40:09 01/31/19) I thought about cutting the bad ones off and welding new gears on and harden the weld. you can contact him on fleabay and ask how he plans to fix it.

The welding repair would be tricky. The compound gears run in constant mesh and have to be timed exactly the same. If any one of them is out a few degrees the under drive will be bound up tighter than a tick. Plus you have to machine the direct drive dentals on the face of the shifter gear.

Back in April of 2010 I spent a fair amount of time working on a way to make replacement gears. The biggest impediment was the compound gears - too close together for clearance for a hob or milling cutter so they have to be made on a gear shaper. Plus machining the blanks from a single piece of 3.75" round bar requires the removal of a lot of material and is very time consuming and expensive. After discussion with my gear shop we decided it would be more cost effective to make them as individual spur gears mounted on a splined shaft. That way all of the gears could be hobbed.

The fly in the ointment was the broached bores in the gears. My gear shop couldn't do that so I got a quote from a third party for blanking and broaching ten complete sets - 10 shifter gear blanks and twenty blanks each of the 20 and 10 tooth compound gears. No gear cutting just rough turned blanks with a finished broached bore. The total for the blanking was roughly $2500 plus freight.

From there I could have finished them myself. That required the purchase of three 6DP gear milling cutters (24T, 20T, and 10T) and a spline cutter for the compound gear shaft pushing the up front cost to around $3000. The compound gears would be easy to finish but there is a lot of detail in the face of the shifter gear so still a significant amount of additional machine time required. Would you have paid $500-$600 for a set of replacement gears?

When your transmission showed up at $100 I figured I could use it as an experiment and make one set for roughly a grand. Then sell that transmission to cover the tooling and broaching cost. Didn't pan out :roll:

TOH

PS&gt; Buyer identities on eBay are not disclosed to anyone other that the seller so no way to contact him/her. If you want to send him/her my way feel free.
 
Ha said he has another one he thinks he can make one out of the two. I guess someone needs to make a decal for when its engaged, DO NOT PULL STUMPS WHEN ENGAGED - YOU WILL WALK HOME.
 
(quoted from post at 10:50:48 02/01/19) Ha said he has another one he thinks he can make one out of the two. I guess someone needs to make a decal for when its engaged, DO NOT PULL STUMPS WHEN ENGAGED - YOU WILL WALK HOME.

Mine has damage that looks like someone tried to engage with the tractor moving and it now has a lock out pin that previous owner had installed. You have to pull the pin before you can engage the transmission. still works good but don't use it very much.
 
(quoted from post at 12:50:48 02/01/19) Ha said he has another one he thinks he can make one out of the two. I guess someone needs to make a decal for when its engaged, DO NOT PULL STUMPS WHEN ENGAGED - YOU WILL WALK HOME.

I really don't think the gear failures come from heavy pulling - more likely grinding the gears when shifting into low range. The erosion is always on the leading edges.

TOH
 

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