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8N brakes

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RGR

01-26-2019 05:25:39




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This spring summer I would like to do some brake work on my 8N. The left brakes seem to be good but the right not so much, the right pedal sits about 1 inch below the left and while the left engages about 2 inches depressed the right is about 5 inches depressed, so just wondering when taking the rear wheel off, is it better to separate the two pieces or take the wheel off as one unit, and then removing the brake drum, which has probably been on forever, any issues, do I need jack hammers, a lot of prayer, some good luck, just like to be prepared.

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Royse

01-27-2019 09:51:11




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 Re: 8N brakes in reply to RGR, 01-26-2019 05:25:39  
"How many have you bought that
you didn't have to go through the brakes
when you brought it home? Why?"

I couldn't give you a number, but there have been some.

Most of the ones I've owned with bad brakes were just what I
described, oil leaks that were not fixed or were half arse fixed.

That Jubilee I bought last fall was one that I did not have to fix
the brakes on. Toe the brake and the tire will slide on gravel.

No need to stand on them.
BTW, that, to me, is the limiting factor for braking on these and
any other small tractor. Even when the brakes work well, they
don't have enough weight to stop with a load pushing you.

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Royse

01-26-2019 19:51:35




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 Re: 8N brakes in reply to RGR, 01-26-2019 05:25:39  
"do I need jack hammers, a lot of prayer, some good luck"

Maybe all of the above! :)

I'll agree with the others on trying to adjust first.

I take the rear wheel and center assembly off as one piece.

Much easier to line up when putting back on that way.

Roll the wheel and center up close, raise/lower the tractor with a
floor jack to match height, turn the brake drum to line up the studs.

The brake drums have counter-sunk screws holding them to the hubs.

Those little buggers can be a bear to get out. An impact screwdriver

will usually work but I have had to heat them with a torch first.

Once those are out and the brake adjusters are backed all the
way off, the drum, in theory, will slide right off. In reality, it may
require some assistance from a really big hammer.

I understand Dean's idea of loosening the hub nut and driving

the tractor around to free the hub if needed. I just commented

that the oil seal leak he mentioned could be the cause of brake

trouble, but I would inspect them to see if they're leaking before
I broke the hub loose. More work that way, as you'd have to put

the tire and rim back on to break it loose, but if the hubs are

tight and the seals are not leaking, why break them loose?

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Royse

01-26-2019 19:32:46




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 Re: 8N brakes in reply to RGR, 01-26-2019 05:25:39  
"8N's have brakes ?????"

The brakes on an 8N are simplistic drum brakes, much like were
found on many cars and trucks before disk brakes came along.

There is certainly nothing wrong with that setup for low speed

operation on a tractor.
The reason the brakes on N series tractors, including the NAAs
get a bad reputation is because the axle seals leaked oil onto
the brake shoes, which caused them not to work so well.
Some people may not have known the cause, so didn't get them

fixed correctly. But then there are the guys who are trying to
pinch pennies hard enough to make Lincoln shave and want to
wash the brake shoes vs replacing or relining them; with no
thought of spending the money to fix the seals that caused the
original problem.

Then, of course, you might want to see if you have worn hubs
that could have caused those seals to go bad. But that might

lead to spending yet more money, so let's just wash the shoes

in gas, throw them back on using the old worn out springs and
blame the inferior design of the tractors that are still out there
working all these years later. Many of them with good brakes.

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Ultradog MN

01-27-2019 08:45:13




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 Re: 8N brakes in reply to Royse, 01-26-2019 19:32:46  
Sorry Royse and Dean
N brakes at best are adequate.
Most of the time they sucked - as did all the small Fords with dry drum brakes.
Royse, I know you have owned a lot of small Fords. How many have you bought that you didn't have to go through the brakes when you brought it home? Why?
Dean, you always state you can skid the tires if they are properly adjusted, etc.
Yes you probably can - if you weigh 250 lbs and STAND on the pedals.
Royse, I don't know if you've ever operated a later Ford with wet disc brakes. A 50 lb kid could skid one to a stop without standing on the pedals.
Those my friends, are good brakes.

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Dean

01-29-2019 06:50:14




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 Re: 8N brakes in reply to Ultradog MN, 01-27-2019 08:45:13  
I did not say that vintage Ford brakes were better than, as good as, etc. than more modern wet brakes, only that they were fine for a 2,500 Lb. slow speed farm tractor if properly maintained.

By the same token, the hydraulic brakes on new tractors are better than the wet brakes on 4000/5000/* Fords. Are these inadequate as well?

I weigh less than 200 Lbs. and can lock the brakes on any of my vintage Fords, forward or reverse, weighted or otherwise, with one foot and without getting out of the seat. Perfectly adequate for tractors of the size and vintage. One would not expect N series brakes to be as good as the brakes used on larger and newer tractors. Nor would one expect the brakes used on 40s-50s vintage automobiles to be as good as the brakes used on new cars.

No complaints.

Dean

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Dean

01-27-2019 06:02:58




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 Re: 8N brakes in reply to Royse, 01-26-2019 19:32:46  
Anyone know of any other vehicles that have properly functioning brakes after 70+ years with little or no maintenance?

Anyone?

Dean



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hd6gtom

01-26-2019 18:52:08




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 Re: 8N brakes in reply to RGR, 01-26-2019 05:25:39  
Back in the early 1960's when I was running n Ford's for the neighbor, they were always in the repair shop for 1 reason or another. An old boy that worked on n Ford's since day 1 told me "Henry Ford designed the brakes on a n Ford to be better than the brakes on a covered wagon, but only a little better". I believe him. Good luck.



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Clifford B.

01-26-2019 13:29:31




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 Re: 8N brakes in reply to RGR, 01-26-2019 05:25:39  
8N's have brakes ?????



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Kid Shileen

01-26-2019 18:55:33




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 Re: 8N brakes in reply to Clifford B., 01-26-2019 13:29:31  
Ya beat me to it.



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Dean

01-26-2019 14:11:43




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 Re: 8N brakes in reply to Clifford B., 01-26-2019 13:29:31  
Of course.

They work well if properly maintained.

All of my vintage Fords will lock 'em up on any surface and in either direction with or without wheel weights.

Dean



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Dean

01-26-2019 05:40:02




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 Re: 8N brakes in reply to RGR, 01-26-2019 05:25:39  
As Copperhead advises, adjust first.

Remove the wheel assembly as a single unit if necessary.

I would first loosen the axle nut a couple of turns and use the tractor a bit to loosen the hub (if not already loose) in case you need to remove it to replace seals, etc.

Dean



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Copperhead don't play

01-26-2019 05:33:58




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 Re: 8N brakes in reply to RGR, 01-26-2019 05:25:39  
You might want to try adjusting the shoes and/or
the petal linkages.



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