ye ol' compression discussion

I think i have a real tired 2N. She's been missing pretty bad and giving me some scary back fires. I'm putting her in the garage for the winter to give her a
good tuning up but it looks like it is going to be more than i really wanted to tackle. I think i'm going to go for the rebuild though.
I purchased the elec tuneup kit from here, expecting that to be the main issue. Nice spark on all cyl with extended gap plug.
I checked fuel flow. Seems really strong.
....then i check compression. Started with cold/dry compression last night
1 - 71
2 - 69
3 - 58
4 - 31

Plan to check wet compression later this week, when i get some more time.
Looks like I'll have to have the neighbor brings his monster JD up the drive this winter if we get the big snows.
I suppose she has been rebuilt at least once in the last 72 years, but every time i've opened a new area (air filter, governor, starter, etc.), i still see the
original paint. I have been led to believe that my great-grandfather had purchased this used in the 60s. I think he mainly used it like we use our ATVs today,
to check on fields and animals. I'd like to do a full restore on it some time, but i didn't expect to have to do it just yet.

Your sentimentalism will cost you big bucks if you go the route of an overhaul and restore.
For what you'll spend on it you could have a better tractor.

Oh yes, you're right. I keep trying to get the lovely other convinced that i need a tractor for every implement. It gets tiring switching from shredder to finish mower to blade to people hauler to boom to dirt scoop....
A nice Ford 2000 would be a great addition to the acreage.

(quoted from post at 11:06:52 11/12/18) Oh yes, you're right. I keep trying to get the lovely other convinced that i need a tractor for every implement. It gets tiring switching from shredder to finish mower to blade to people hauler to boom to dirt scoop....
A nice Ford 2000 would be a great addition to the acreage.

Click to expand...

ounds like you need six tractors!

Yep, it's rebuild time.

I'm surprised it starts.
75 Tips

Sounds like you need new sleeves/pistons and a valve job,hope oil pressure was still good or bearings are needed also.

good money after bad sell it for 500 and move on

oil pressure has been good. 35psi cold, 27psi hot

Is it just me or are we looking at a head gasket leaking at one end? I find it interesting that these numbers get progressively worse as you work from one end to the other.

I trust the knowledge on this board and I just wonder how we see that much of an imbalance end to end.

Thanks

Wet test will likely show better readings. If so, I would pull the head and look at the bore and the ridge at the top of the sleeves. It may be possible...possible...to cut the ridge, pull the pistons (requires dropping the pan) pull each piston and replace the rings.
I have done this with a tractor that had 80 to 90 wet and it brought compression up enough to use the tractor until I could do a complete overhaul. You can expect a bit of piston slap.
Broken rings and/or heavily scored sleeve walls may not let this work and require a major now.

Thanks for the idea on a temp fix for now.
You're right, My season of life is still growing a family, not in spending an IRA or pension.

Wow, if it is just a head gasket leaking, i could get out of this with a little more reasonable cost and effort.

Wouldn't this also mean i'm losing water too? I do not have to top off the radiator at all. It keeps a nice steady level.

Following up on the information from earlier this week. cap full of ATF soaked in.

Wet Comp:
1 - 80
2 - 60
3 - 70
4 - 60

(quoted from post at 13:31:58 11/14/18) Following up on the information from earlier this week. cap full of ATF soaked in.

Wet Comp:
1 - 80
2 - 60
3 - 70
4 - 60

Click to expand...

Strange that the wet reading on #2 is lower. You might want to verify both readings and use a bit more oil for the wet test. If compression does not come up anymore than those wet values you have issues beyond rings although #4 is looking like it has significant ring leakage.

TOH

(quoted from post at 10:31:58 11/14/18) Following up on the information from earlier this week. cap full of ATF soaked in.

Wet Comp:
1 - 80
2 - 60
3 - 70
4 - 60

Click to expand...

OK, with full deniability, I will provide a less costly solution. One can remove the head, and oil pan. Ream the ridge with the tool, may be able to rent one. Remove the rod caps and push the pistons out the top. Send the pistons off for knurling on the skirts. But a set of rings that are +0.010 over standard. Gently hone all the cyl, don't spend a lot of time, just generate a surface for the new rings to stick to.

Most important part!! You must grind the ring ends for spec ring end gap. Here's the link to the limits.

https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/tech-tips-faqs/checking-compression-ring-gaps

Put each ring in the bore, and then get it flat and even with the piston pressed down on the ring. Start with the ring near the top. Remove the piston, measure the end gap(if it as any at all), and then push the ring to the middle, measure again, and then near the bottom of the piston travel and measure again. Use the smallest measure and grind to the spec.

Do this for ALL the rings, in all the bores. Make sure you keep the rings for the correct cyl by putting them on the piston and mark the piston for each cyl. Once all the oversize rings are ground, and installed on the pistons, drive the piston and rod back in the engine, install new rod bearings, lap the valves if you want to, put the head and pan back on and you'll have decent comp for about 200-500 hours of operation.

Total cost is, set of oversize rings, gasket set, knurl and ridge labor, lapping compound, and a ring grinding tool. It will take a few tries to get the end gap right, but after the first three or so, you'll get good at it.

Thanks for the details on the opportunity of getting her down the road. Couple questions: If there are already sleeves in the block, I could just get the sleeve
tool, sleeves and new pistons at that point, correct? I have a few hundred dollars available, but not several thousand, i guess is what i'm saying. And I also
do not have the personal machine shop tools or skills to do a full rebore. If the valve seats are in poor condition, do i also need to consider just pulling it
and having someone else at a machine shop do this?
'Reaming the ridge' and 'grinding the rings' and 'knurling the skirt' are the phrases that scare me the most. I can turn a wrench, set a gap, and gap a float,
but we are getting close to being outside my skill-set.

Can i leave the block on the tractor while doing this ring fix?

Thanks again for your help.

yes, u can. i did what's called an in-frame rebuild a couple of winters ago. between the kit (sleeves, pistons, rings and gaskets,)
the sleeve tool, and new studs/nuts, i put a little over 400 into it.

if your oil pressure is good, this will save a lot of work and expense.

i didn't even touch my valves when i did it. in retrospect, i wish i had at least gotten a... lapping tool, or whatever it's called. basically a suction cup on a stick, it allows u to lap the valves/seats in place. in my case, tho, i don't think it was a big deal, as it's running great now.

(quoted from post at 10:47:19 11/15/18) Thanks for the details on the opportunity of getting her down the road. Couple questions: If there are already sleeves in the block, I could just get the sleeve
tool, sleeves and new pistons at that point, correct? I have a few hundred dollars available, but not several thousand, i guess is what i'm saying. And I also
do not have the personal machine shop tools or skills to do a full rebore. If the valve seats are in poor condition, do i also need to consider just pulling it
and having someone else at a machine shop do this?
'Reaming the ridge' and 'grinding the rings' and 'knurling the skirt' are the phrases that scare me the most. I can turn a wrench, set a gap, and gap a float,
but we are getting close to being outside my skill-set.

Can i leave the block on the tractor while doing this ring fix?

Thanks again for your help.

Click to expand...

Knurling pistons is a half a$$ way to take up piston slap. Oversize rings is another half a$$ "fix" for a worn bore. The knurls wear down very quickly and the rings never seal well or for long. IMO that route is a waste of time, effort, and money when you can re-sleeve the block and install new pistons with rings for $150 + another $100 for the sleeve tools. But based on your compression test results you likely have other issues to address in addition to pistons, rings, and sleeves. If it were me I'd also be looking hard at those valves and head gasket....

TOH

(quoted from post at 07:47:19 11/15/18) Thanks for the details on the opportunity of getting her down the road. Couple questions: If there are already sleeves in the block, I could just get the sleeve
tool, sleeves and new pistons at that point, correct? I have a few hundred dollars available, but not several thousand, i guess is what i'm saying.

Thanks again for your help.

Click to expand...

Of course you can. How cheap do you want to be? REAL cheap, partially cheap, somewhat cheap, or not really cheap. A few hundred will get you a piston, ring and sleeve kit. Some lapping compound, gaskets, fresh oil, and might as well do the rod bearings. As mentioned, this can all be done with the engine in the tractor but you'll need to remove the hood and gas tank of course. Might be able to rent/borrow the sleeve tool at a tractor shop in your area.

This is all basic work with wrenches. Setting the sleeves requires a bit of care, but nothing real weird.

There's cheaper ways, but as mentioned by ME ALREADY, they are not a long term fix but will get you down the road for 200-500 hours if the hone is done right, and the rings are bedded. I once put oversize rings and a hone job on a VW because I was too cheap to buy the cyl kit. Got me though 3 years of HS before it gave up.

[b:413ae258b6]"and might as well do the rod bearings"[/b:413ae258b6]

yep, those were in my kit as well, forgot to list them.

Thanks again to each of the insights provided. I'm going to have numerous questions as i go through this. I will be coming back often. I have the hood and dog legs to a point where i need another husky fellow to help me lift it off. Fuel and lights disconnected, radiator cap off, and unbolted from firewall and frame.
Let's start with the next set of questions:
If i only take the oil pan off, will the front wheels need to be rolled off first? Is there a half-gasket for reinstalling only the oil pan portion? Will the oil pan come off that easily or will the crank bearings be pressed in fairly hard? I know to watch for the oil dip tube when pulling the pan.

the pan is heavy. use a floor jack to lower it. it should come right off.

most folks detach the front end and roll it away first. i didn't. if u don't, the front 2 oil pan bolts can be tricky.