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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum

What say TOH

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10-07-2018 12:23:24

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True or not,Look at it this way more time on the links

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Tall T

10-13-2018 22:17:41

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
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Not quite the down and dirty because dirty doesn't mean down.

I did many a synthetic conversion on tow trucks as well in Vancouver, and yes the Amsoil cleaned the snot out of that engine.

But it didn't mean instant oil change, it meant changing the filter a few times after the conversion. I like to add bypass filtration to the spin ons as well.

I converted truck 56 at City Wide Towing in Vancouver, a year or two old GMC. I did a crankcase flush first as well. 10W40 Amsoil.

So I come back home to the island and shortly thereafter get a phone call from Mel Cummiford the company owner who I had talked into the change. He said truck 56 is using oil. . . how come? this is the God's truth . . . I told him that I was 99% sure that the Amsoil had picked up so much particulate that the filter had become saturated, and so now the dirt in suspension isn't letting the rings seal.

Anyway, I felt obliged to go all the way back to Vancouver to change the spin-on filter (Hastings Densite filters) But they had the Amsoil name. Came back to Salt Spring . . . . phone call,

"You were right; 56 isn't using oil anymore!"

So the moral of the story of course, it that if you are going to start using synthetic on an older, always mineral oil engine, then change filter a couple of times after the switch to make sure you get everything the synthetic cleans up. I'll do that with the Jube some day soon.

I have a few success stories, and owners for witnesses, where my 100 Synthetic conversion totally quieted their noisy lifters, I presume by cleaning up sticky varnish from within the lifter bodies.

A Ford truck V8, A big Mercury station wagon V8, and a Trans Am in Victoria. The Trans Am's clacking lifter took forever to go away and it looked like I wasn't going to win that battle, but it finally did stop. The 68 Mercury wagon was mine and the lifters sounded like hammers on a cookie sheet! I totally silenced them with Amsoil 15W40 and it ran smooth as silk until I sold it.

Yada yada


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10-13-2018 18:36:09

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
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Total agreement. On an individua basis the best guide to how often you should change engine oil is a used oil analysis. Inexpensive and very detailed.


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10-13-2018 18:14:41

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
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Here were my two points about my statement. You would be surprised at all the people who think oil is oil or equal, regardless of viscosity, brand or type.
The other point is a lot of people think when their vehicle tells them it's time for an oil change that is somehow monitors the actual condition and degradation of the oil, in fact none of them do that.

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10-13-2018 17:59:43

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
Euro has stricter oil specification's than domestic why euro specs have not made it as an domestic auto manufacture spec oil no one knows...

The price of bulk synthetic oil has doped big time DIY guys have not seen it at your local parts house and you are not going to get a break buying 5 qts at the time... It just is not going to happen...

Bulk oil are any oil as far as that goes that meets dexos licensing truth be know they paid GM for the rights to use a Dexos label its all about the money. I spec that's why euro spec oils have not been domesticated domestic manufacturers already has its own gig it paying well.

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10-13-2018 16:04:17

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
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Which is why every OEM has a set of vehicle specific oil performance specifications they design to. For BMW it is LL-01 and LL-04. Volkswagen is 504.xx and 505.xx with different requirements for diesel, spark ignition, normal or forced induction aspiration. Mercedes is 229.xx with variants as per VW. Very much the same for all of the other OEMs. So if you want to rely on the vehicle's condition based oil service monitor you need to use an oil that has the appropriate OEM certification.

Oil manufacturers spend a lot of money on testing to get those certifications. Look at a bottle of oil - most will have a substantial list of OEM certifications so choosing a suitable oil is not rocket science. If you are going to use an oil that doesn't have the OEM certification for your vehicle forget about the oil life monitor because you are lying to it when you change the oil and reset the counters.


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10-13-2018 15:25:08

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
I never see the oil change reminders on my vehicles.

The oil gets changed every 5K by the dealer. Using
the recommended synthetic oil. It's $36 each time.

I'm not going to gamble for a $5 savings at the quick lube.

It does throw off their maintenance records though.

My 7500 mile "service" was done at 5K, 15K at 10K, etc.

So they're confused. ;) Been doing it that way for many years.

Easy to remember (5, 10, 15, 20) and no reminder sticker.

My tractors I still do myself. Spring and fall. None of them
see more than 100 hours a year so that's probably overkill.

But it's cheap insurance against moisture buildup.

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10-13-2018 15:04:10

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
Most new vehicles have oil change reminders, and a lot of them are set between 5-7k miles up to and over 10k miles. The vehicle has no way of knowing what kind of oil you used or it's actual condition. These reminders use time, mileage and driving conditions not always all of those, some might be mileage only etc.
What most people don't do is check their oil, this is becoming a huge problem with extended oil change intervals and thinner oil. When these vehicles start getting some miles they will start using oil and if not checking between oil changes (7-10k miles) they might be critically low. Most people are cheap, they want cheap oil and cheap oil changes, cheap oil will not last 7-10k miles.
I see a lot of engine component failures in newer vehicles, and honestly I can't blame most of the failures on oil or any neglect. I think today's vehicles are just built cheap using cheap plastic, metals and cheap assembly. With that said they still need a high quality oil if you expect extended oil life above 5-7k miles.

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10-12-2018 15:48:04

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
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To be clear:
  1. Synthetic blends are not synthetic oils - it is a marketing con game.There are no minimum requirements for synthetic oil content and even a drop would suffice to make it a synthetic blend.
  2. All other things equal synthetic oils have a longer service life than conventional oils - period.
  3. No oil, synthetic or conventional, will fix a sludged engine.
  4. New engines come with an OEM selected oil that will allow rings to seal and bearings to bed in. Currently almost all factory fills are synthetic.
  5. The cost effectiveness of synthetic over conventional is a per application issue. For a new or used engine in generally good condition synthetics generally come out on top.
Pouring synthetic oil into an old sludged up engine hoping it will fix a problem that was caused by previous bad maintenance is pi$$ing into the wind and anybody with half a brain can figure that out. The fact it can't reverse the damage caused by a badly maintained engine does nothing to diminish the documented superior performance of fully synthetic engine oils . Whether or not it makes economic sense to use a synthetic is a budgetary issue - not a performance issue. Using a synthetic oil gives you the best possible outcome given the initial state of any engine. It may or may not be worth the cost.


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10-11-2018 07:21:34

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
I have worked for oil companies for last 27 years.

Here's the down and dirty:

Synthetic oils do withstand oxidation and viscosity breakdown much better than the older full mineral oils do.

However the condition of the engine: i.e. worn rings, sludge build up. etc will pollute the new synthetic oils just as fast as the mineral based oils. And will cause accelerated wear. So if you have a worn engine or internally dirty one, you will never reap the benefits of the full synthetic oils before they get dirty and cause even more wear due to the "dirt".

If you start with a new engine with full synthetic (which may prohibit ring seating), then by all means stay with synthetic.

Also, if you have an engine under extreme demands such as semi truck or tractors in extreme use. I would highly recommend a synthetic.

Even air cooled engines i.e. motorcycle would warrant use of a synthetic.

Other than that I don't think it is economically feasible to run full synthetics.

One other note: A "synthetic blend" is any oil that has 5% (or there abouts) synthetic oil added to it. The "blend" only allows the mfg to add to price. It really only adds a very small if any improvement to the performance of the oil.


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10-08-2018 07:55:08

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
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You can change your oil every 1000 miles and it is not going to stop or slow down carbon buildup in a GDI engine. Spend that money on a higher quality fuel.

At 11 years and 110K miles my rather hot running twin-turbo 335i is just beginning to exhibit signs of some valve/intake deposits and will probably need a $500 walnut shell cleaning at 150K-175K. For now it has an almost imperceptible stutter at idle but runs like a bat out of He!!. Otherwise the engine itself is spotless.


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10-08-2018 07:02:31

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  

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Tim PloughNman Daley

10-08-2018 06:33:33

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
We use to joke back in the 70's that the car companies made 'disposable cars'. That may no longer be a joke. They really do want people to buy a new vehicle every year. Cars are built today so that the average Joe can't work on their own vehicle. The modern on-board computer setups are pre-set with data that alarms/out idiot lights up whenever that target is reached. Oil change intervals are set to 3000-3500 miles on moist vehicles at the factory. You doubt? Watch your odometer when the OIL CHANGE REQUIRED alarm comes up and count til the next time. The same is true for your gas tank alarm. They are normally set so when you reach the "50 MILES TIL EMPTY" message, the FUEL LOW alarm it coms on too. When your gas tank gets to "E", your really have a 1/8 or so reserve left, between 30-50 miles.


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10-07-2018 18:11:59

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
A letter I wrote to a news station that commended regular maintenance.

You could is the question

You could be wasting your money if you change your oil every 3000 miles.

You could be wasting your money if you extend the service intervals
There is not much the average vehicle owner can do to keep their car maintained but they can keep their car serviced on a regular service interval that is determined by the way they drive and the vehicle they drive. Vehicles are not disposable items; you don’t run down to the home improvement store on a week end and buy a replacement. con·tro·ver·sy "he sometimes caused controversy because of his forceful views"

Do you really think the manufacture want your vehicle to last 3,4 500K
NO they are only interested in it giving the new owner 5 years of service: SHOCK:

Is the oil really been improved that much the answer is NO. Emission standards have helped more than anything; engines have been built to a higher standard. About the only improvement I have seen is the refining process has improved and gave us synthetic blends and full synthetic oils. BTW Synthetic oils start life as crud base oils it’s not a man made oil. Its oil that been highly refined to make the molecules all the same.

Environmentalist view it as an environmental issue if they are worried about the environment they need to put a big catch can under all the Walmart parking lots. Oil leaks are not dependent on how often you service your vehicle. Unlike 30/40 years ago oil is drained and put in a storage container picked up by a recycler that refines it into a useful product. Environmentalist forget progress, progress just don’t play into their agenda.


I have one question that will stop experts in their ….tracks

“Can the effects in a extended service be reversed”

The answer is NO! its gonna cost you big time. You could be wasting your money if you extend the service intervals … Thays a big role of the dice in my opinion I can put you own to some that rolled the dice and did not like the outcome. They are now believers
GM has admitted there service intervals are not correct they have had warranty issues that are related to extended service intervals. The automotive repair industry has worked hard to train folks to service their vehicles it worked now it’s being reversed. I wonder why?
CHANGING YOUR OIL TOO OFTEN “is not a bad thing” It’s not all about the oil it’s about it’s about keeping up with the maintenance of ware parts. Parts of a car do have a life span it’s nice to know and budget your automotive cost in advance. If there is one thing I dislike about quick lube shops is they are only interested in numbers (car counts) they have dumbed down the public because the public wants it FAST

“Can the effects in an extended service be reversed” YES with you pocketbook $$$$ Engine replacements can run from 4 to 10K...

BTW If I owned a BMW I would change the oil every day they are the worst for engine sludge build up

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Farmer Dan

10-07-2018 17:50:54

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
I change my oil in the spring and fall. Gives me something to do and makes me feel good LOL. :D

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10-07-2018 13:05:40

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
Oil thread! Woot! :D

As TOH said, true for the vast majority of vehicles.
There are exceptions depending on how hard you beat on the engine. For example, my old road race bike had a 16k RPM redline and I would hit it on occasion. I could get ~500 miles on a full synthetic (Rotella T6 5W-40) before the engine started getting noisy. Change the oil and she would quiet right down telling me the old oil was done.

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10-07-2018 12:47:05

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 Re: What say TOH in reply to WW2N, 10-07-2018 12:23:24  
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True for the vast majority of vehicles WHEN USING A GOOD SYNTHETIC. I don't think the industry, with the possible exception of the quick change centers, is currently pitching 3K oil changes. Modern onboard oil monitors use condition based algorithms for computing the OCI on a per vehicle and driving conditions basis and with the assumption the oil is a long life product. My two BMWs think mine should be 15K or every 12 months and the dealership concurs. My wife and I each drive 10K yearly and I change the oil (Mobil 1 or Castrol - both SAE 0W40 Long Life 2 products) once a year. Synthetic DOT4 brake fluid every 24 months. The Hemi in the truck gets synthetic 10W30 on the same schedule which works out to roughly $7k miles. I am sure a used oil analysis would tell me there is plenty of service life left in all of them....


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