Golden Jubilee Hydraulic Problem

jrowen135

Member
I'm new to this forum but hoping for some guidance. I have been looking for an 8N or Jubilee and recently found a Golden Jubilee for sale by a local man who repairs Ns and Jubilees. The price was fair, but the only problem is the hydraulics didn't work. He was very confident the hydraulics could be fixed with a new o-ring and leather gasket on the piston. The hydraulic pump is operational. So, I offered him the asking price if he fixed the hydraulics. Well, he called me yesterday to say he had done the repair (piston gasket) and they hydraulics still do not work. He's basically saying he doesn't know what else it can be and has referred me to another somewhat local "expert" who he said could undoubtedly fix whatever is wrong. My problem is, he's not offering to pay for whatever additional work needs done. My other problem is that I've already paid for the tractor! So I'm in a little bit of a conundrum so to speak. Can anyone give me some ideas on what the issue could be and what kind of money I'm looking at to do a repair? Are there any valves that could be needing replaced, or could it be the piston itself? Any help would be much appreciated. If the cost to repair is reasonable, I'm inclined to go ahead and do it because I think I got a good price on the tractor, but if this is a major issue of some sort I want to press for my money back since the deal was that the hydraulics would be fixed. Thanks!
 
Welcome to the forum.
You say the pump is operational. How do you know that?
Have you hooked a gauge up and measured the pressure?
What are the symptoms? Doesn't lift at all, won't lift with load?
Does it still have a vane pump or the later piston pump?
Did you or he try priming the pump after the repairs?
There are many things that can go wrong and cause different
symptoms. With the right info, I'm sure the guys on this board
can help you fix it. A Jubilee is quite a step up from an N IMHO.
Not that I don't love my N's, just advancements in technology.
 
I was leaving the repair up to him so I don't have good first hand info, but I can pass along what he told me. He said that he confirmed the pump is good. I would assume that he knew to prime it considering he does tractor repairs as a side job, but I don't know - I can ask him to confirm. He's also saying it's not a new pump, so I'm assuming it's the older type.

As far as symptoms, the hydraulics don't seem to lift at all.

I am going to try and post a photo. There appears to be a modification to what I believe is called the "block off plate" on top the hydraulic lift cover just under the seat. Could there be something with this that is causing a problem?

mvphoto24523.png
 
sounds as though your pump isn't primed or isn't working. by pulling off the cover where you check the oil and starting the tractor you will find out quickly.
 
(quoted from post at 00:13:37 10/02/18) sounds as though your pump isn't primed or isn't working. by pulling off the cover where you check the oil and starting the tractor you will find out quickly.
here is no easy way to know whether the pump is able to produce pressure when the lift will not lift, so all potential problems are still just that. "I'm from MO, so show me on a pressure gauge that pump is functional". Could be pump, seals, gaskets, o-rings, unloader valve, back pressure valve, control valve, linkages, etc. It is wide open without real hard data.
 
(quoted from post at 00:08:37 10/02/18) I was leaving the repair up to him so I don't have good first hand info, but I can pass along what he told me. He said that he confirmed the pump is good. I would assume that he knew to prime it considering he does tractor repairs as a side job, but I don't know - I can ask him to confirm. He's also saying it's not a new pump, so I'm assuming it's the older type.

As far as symptoms, the hydraulics don't seem to lift at all.

I am going to try and post a photo. There appears to be a modification to what I believe is called the "block off plate" on top the hydraulic lift cover just under the seat. Could there be something with this that is causing a problem?

mvphoto24523.png

The block off plate has been replaced with a diverter valve which allows you to switch the hydraulic system (e.g. pump and control valve) between the 3pt and external cylinders. IIRC that valve is mutually exclusive. When it is in the external position the 3pt will be disabled but unless the external port in the diverter valve has a plug in it you should get a stream of oil out that port when you raise the 3pt control lever. If it is plugged the pump will simply unload against the internal over pressure relief valve and nothing happens at the 3pt.

TOH
 

To follow up on my previous response. After looking at your picture more carefully and looking at the parts manual your diverter valve appears to have a pipe plug in the external port and the knob for the spool is missing. The knob should be screwed onto the end of the spool at the front of the tubular section. Have you tried operating that valve? I do not know which position is external and which is 3pt but I'd say there is a distinct possibility it is in the external position. Might want to move it and see what happens......

TOH
 
The subject has been well covered here. One that I encountered with my worker Jubilee years ago was the
hydraulics would not lift the 3 point. A local "repair" guy suggested, with the tractor running, pull
the dip stick and blow compressed air. It worked. There may be sludge in the bottom of the case
blocking hydraulic fluid supply to the pump, which goes back to being primed. Being it continues to work
I've never drained the sump to clean out any sludge that may be there.
 
Lotsa good advice given already so I'll just add this: The NAA hydraulic system was different than the previous N's. Since you are new to Ford Tractors, and it hasn't been mentioned, have you engaged the PTO lever? That is the lever on the LH side of the center housing. In neutral, at idle, engage the clutch, then move the lever forward. The touch control lever on the upper RH side next to the seat controls lift up or down. There is the draft control/position control lever, a smaller handle, on the RH side closest to the seat -keep it in the UP (Position Control) position for now. Sometimes it is the small basic things that get overlooked. I wouldn't put much faith into this guy. You say he repairs N's but only replacing the Hydraulic Piston O-RING and back-up washer/wiper is a very poor 'repair' job since it's a lot of work to pull the top cover off. Why he didn't do a more thorough root cause problem solving repair job is questionable in my opinion.

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)
 

Thanks for the information! Should I remove the plug or how do I operate the valve? Could I try taking this diverted valve off and seeing if I have pressure from the pump?
 
(quoted from post at 13:13:54 10/02/18)
Just curious what affect would engaging the PTO have? Thanks and sorry for my ignorance.
one on your Jube. engine driven pump, not pto driven.
 
(quoted from post at 13:13:54 10/02/18)
Just curious what affect would engaging the PTO have? Thanks and sorry for my ignorance.

You are not ignorant on the matter. The PTO has nothing to do with this. NAA hydraulics run directly off the engine and are totally independent of the PTO.

Verifying pump output is trivial - simply remove the pipe plug from the test port on the side of the tractor. I would recommend installing a hose barb and a short length of clear tubing in it's place. Run the open end of the tubing back into the filller so you don't dump a couple gallons per minute of oil on the ground and quickly empty the sump when you start the tractor :roll:

Your Selectrol (diverter) valve operates by sliding the spool fore and aft - see picture below. Your knob is missing so wrap the threads on the end of the shaft with some tape to protect them and use a pair of vise grips to move it back and forth. Test the 3pt in both positions. This is a simple test to see if it is currently in the wrong position. If you want to check for output at the external port use the same hose barb and tubing technique as used on the test port. You should get oil at the port when the 3pt lever is up and the valve is in the external position. When the spool is moved to the other position and you raise the 3pt control lever you should not get oil at the port and the 3pt arms should raise.

368231_opt.jpg


This is not rocket science and right now you have almost no diagnostic data. Start by verifying the pump is actually pumping before diving in up stream. If you have flow at the test port move on to the diverter valve. If you have flow there and the lift still doesn't work when the valve is shifted back to the three point we can talk about the next step which would be a pressure test.

TOH
 
id take a look at that, mine has this rare for a jubilee valve, its for operating a remote hydraulic cylinder like a trailer plow, mower, ect , it can run a wood splitter but,the jubes pump puts out 2 . something gpm, so it is not praticle. now this one appears to be missing parts, i cant see in the hole, but the handle is gone for sure, on mine the handle has a notch to rest in the center position when not in use, when the valve is being used, the 3 point does not raise or raises extremely slowly depending on how much the valve handle is moved
 
(quoted from post at 13:44:43 10/02/18)
(quoted from post at 13:13:54 10/02/18)
Just curious what affect would engaging the PTO have? Thanks and sorry for my ignorance.

You are not ignorant on the matter. The PTO has nothing to do with this. NAA hydraulics run directly off the engine and are totally independent of the PTO.

Verifying pump output is trivial - simply remove the pipe plug from the test port on the side of the tractor. I would recommend installing a hose barb and a short length of clear tubing in it's place. Run the open end of the tubing back into the filller so you don't dump a couple gallons per minute of oil on the ground and quickly empty the sump when you start the tractor :roll:

Your Selectrol (diverter) valve operates by sliding the spool fore and aft - see picture below. Your knob is missing so wrap the threads on the end of the shaft with some tape to protect them and use a pair of vise grips to move it back and forth. Test the 3pt in both positions. This is a simple test to see if it is currently in the wrong position. If you want to check for output at the external port use the same hose barb and tubing technique as used on the test port. You should get oil at the port when the 3pt lever is up and the valve is in the external position. When the spool is moved to the other position and you raise the 3pt control lever you should not get oil at the port and the 3pt arms should raise.

368231_opt.jpg


This is not rocket science and right now you have almost no diagnostic data. Start by verifying the pump is actually pumping before diving in up stream. If you have flow at the test port move on to the diverter valve. If you have flow there and the lift still doesn't work when the valve is shifted back to the three point we can talk about the next step which would be a pressure test.

TOH
ut is to feed aux eqmt and IN is for 3 point. His shaft (missing knob) looks IN unless broken off. But can't miss by trying both positions.
 
(quoted from post at 16:29:31 10/02/18) Out is to feed aux eqmt and IN is for 3 point. His shaft (missing knob) looks IN unless broken off. But can't miss by trying both positions.

I assumed out was the auxiliary position but still something that is in the middle of the lift circuit and needs to be checked and eliminated. Plus once he verifies oil delivery and proper operation of the aux valve it becomes a very convenient pressure test point :idea:

TOH
 
The first thing I would do is remove the bleed plug on the front of the pump and crank the engine over without starting it. That will at least let you know the pump is pumping oil even though you won't be able to check the pressure. If it pumps oil out the bleed hole, replace the plug and remove the acorn nut on the right side of the housing below the lift cover. Then start the tractor and raise the quadrant control. Use a punch or something similar and push in on the safety valve you remove the acorn nut from. If the arms raise the unloading valve is stuck. If they don.t you should take it to someone familiar with the NAA hydraulics so they can remove the hydraulic cover to check, repair and adjust it properly. People not familiar with the NAA hydraulics don't know that when installing the cover the safety valve needs to be backed out and there is a flat rubber seal that should be replaced. after the cover is installed the safety valve needs to be screwed back in and the acorn nut put back on.

Mark
 
Thanks to everyone for some great tips. I won't be able to get to trying some of these things for the next week or so due to some other projects, but I'll report back to you as soon as I can. I wish one of you was in central Ohio!
 
(quoted from post at 20:57:48 10/02/18) The first thing I would do is remove the bleed plug on the front of the pump and crank the engine over without starting it. That will at least let you know the pump is pumping oil even though you won't be able to check the pressure. If it pumps oil out the bleed hole, replace the plug and remove the acorn nut on the right side of the housing below the lift cover. Then start the tractor and raise the quadrant control. Use a punch or something similar and push in on the safety valve you remove the acorn nut from. If the arms raise the unloading valve is stuck. If they don.t you should take it to someone familiar with the NAA hydraulics so they can remove the hydraulic cover to check, repair and adjust it properly. People not familiar with the NAA hydraulics don't know that when installing the cover the safety valve needs to be backed out and there is a flat rubber seal that should be replaced. after the cover is installed the safety valve needs to be screwed back in and the acorn nut put back on.

Mark
'm with you, if....you will call it the back pressure valve instead of safety valve.
 
(quoted from post at 19:57:48 10/02/18) The first thing I would do is remove the bleed plug on the front of the pump and crank the engine over without starting it. That will at least let you know the pump is pumping oil even though you won't be able to check the pressure. If it pumps oil out the bleed hole, replace the plug and remove the acorn nut on the right side of the housing below the lift cover. Then start the tractor and raise the quadrant control. Use a punch or something similar and push in on the safety valve you remove the acorn nut from. If the arms raise the unloading valve is stuck. If they don.t you should take it to someone familiar with the NAA hydraulics so they can remove the hydraulic cover to check, repair and adjust it properly. People not familiar with the NAA hydraulics don't know that when installing the cover the safety valve needs to be backed out and there is a flat rubber seal that should be replaced. after the cover is installed the safety valve needs to be screwed back in and the acorn nut put back on.

Mark

I finally was able to get started a little bit on diagnosing the hydraulics. Picked up a hose barb and some tubing and ran from the bleed plug on the pump into the fill port under the seat. Pump appears to be pumping well although I realize this doesn't tell me about pressure. Also indicates the pump is primed. Then attempted to remove the acorn nut but was not able to do so. I fear it is cross threaded. After getting it loose, was able to loosen by hand, then had to use wrench again, then by hand again until it appeared to be almost all the way out. At this point, the acorn plug almost goes back inward a half turn and I just can't loosen it any further beyond this point to get it all the way out. So I was not able to check the back pressure valve as you suggested.

Also tried to see if I could determine the position of the "Selectrol" valve on top of the top plate. I was unfortunately unable to remove the site plug - I had wanted to open this up to see if fluid was coming out or not, indicating the valve position. I couldn't get it to loosed one bit - even began rounding the corners of the plug. Was able to remove the threaded spool piece on the end that a knob would have been attached to. Then put this threaded spool piece back in leaving a little bit sticking out to be able to grip with vice grips in the hopes that I could pull straight out to open/close the valve. I had a solid grip and pulled as hard as I could with no luck changing the position of the valve.

So some dead ends this evening unfortunately!
 

I should add that when I have the fill port open and am looking down into the hydraulics, I see no movement of hydraulics when the tractor is running and I operate the control lever. Should there be fluid movement or discharging anywhere in there?
 
(quoted from post at 22:31:25 10/16/18)

Then attempted to remove the acorn nut but was not able to do so. I fear it is cross threaded. After getting it loose, was able to loosen by hand, then had to use wrench again, then by hand again until it appeared to be almost all the way out. At this point, the acorn plug almost goes back inward a half turn and I just can't loosen it any further beyond this point to get it all the way out. So I was not able to check the back pressure valve as you suggested.

Sounds like you had the nut and housing loose as an assembly but the valve/seal is hung on the side of the case or the tube. Might want to try again. For reference the picture below shows the end of the valve housing and the tube it goes through.

42810.jpg


(quoted from post at 22:31:25 10/16/18)
Also tried to see if I could determine the position of the "Selectrol" valve on top of the top plate. I was unfortunately unable to remove the site plug - I had wanted to open this up to see if fluid was coming out or not, indicating the valve position. I couldn't get it to loosed one bit - even began rounding the corners of the plug. Was able to remove the threaded spool piece on the end that a knob would have been attached to. Then put this threaded spool piece back in leaving a little bit sticking out to be able to grip with vice grips in the hopes that I could pull straight out to open/close the valve. I had a solid grip and pulled as hard as I could with no luck changing the position of the valve.

You say you "removed" the spool but then could not operate it when re-installed. Something does not add up in that description. Sounds like you removed something threaded into the end of the spool and not the spool itself. The spool should slide in and out of the housing. If you could not pull it out did you try to push it inwards? If it will move inward that is likely the cause of your lack of 3pt operation. If it won't move at all the valve is damaged and needs to be removed, disassembled, and fixed. If need be screw a bolt into the end of the spool in place of the threaded piece you removed and next time take some pictures of the process.

Looking in the filler isn't going to show you much of anything.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 08:56:15 10/17/18)
(quoted from post at 22:31:25 10/16/18)

Then attempted to remove the acorn nut but was not able to do so. I fear it is cross threaded. After getting it loose, was able to loosen by hand, then had to use wrench again, then by hand again until it appeared to be almost all the way out. At this point, the acorn plug almost goes back inward a half turn and I just can't loosen it any further beyond this point to get it all the way out. So I was not able to check the back pressure valve as you suggested.

Sounds like you had the nut and housing loose as an assembly but the valve/seal is hung on the side of the case or the tube. Might want to try again. For reference the picture below shows the end of the valve housing and the tube it goes through.

42810.jpg


(quoted from post at 22:31:25 10/16/18)
Also tried to see if I could determine the position of the "Selectrol" valve on top of the top plate. I was unfortunately unable to remove the site plug - I had wanted to open this up to see if fluid was coming out or not, indicating the valve position. I couldn't get it to loosed one bit - even began rounding the corners of the plug. Was able to remove the threaded spool piece on the end that a knob would have been attached to. Then put this threaded spool piece back in leaving a little bit sticking out to be able to grip with vice grips in the hopes that I could pull straight out to open/close the valve. I had a solid grip and pulled as hard as I could with no luck changing the position of the valve.

You say you "removed" the spool but then could not operate it when re-installed. Something does not add up in that description. Sounds like you removed something threaded into the end of the spool and not the spool itself. The spool should slide in and out of the housing. If you could not pull it out did you try to push it inwards? If it will move inward that is likely the cause of your lack of 3pt operation. If it won't move at all the valve is damaged and needs to be removed, disassembled, and fixed. If need be screw a bolt into the end of the spool in place of the threaded piece you removed and next time take some pictures of the process.

Looking in the filler isn't going to show you much of anything.

TOH

Tried again on the acorn nut with no luck. I get it backed out to what seems like almost all the way and then it just spins when turning by hand. Tapped on it with a hammer and that didn't help.

Speaking of the spool on the Selectrol valve - I was probably using the wrong terminology. I removed the threaded shaft to which I think the knob would have connected. Put the threaded piece back in and tried pulling on it to operate the valve with no luck. For kicks I removed the Selectrol valve from the lift cover. I thought I could perhaps remove the snap ring from the end and disassemble the valve, but was unable to get the snap ring to budge (with a snap ring tool).

One thing that I did notice is that when I removed the Selectrol valve, it appeared to me that there was fluid in the hole lined up with the fluid supply and in the hole lined up with the hole on the lift cover between the two studs that go up through the Selectrol valve piece. Would this indicate which position the Selectrol valve is in?
mvphoto25514.jpg


mvphoto25515.jpg


mvphoto25516.jpg


mvphoto25517.jpg


mvphoto25518.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 21:27:45 10/19/18)

Tried again on the acorn nut with no luck. I get it backed out to what seems like almost all the way and then it just spins when turning by hand. Tapped on it with a hammer and that didn't help.

Speaking of the spool on the Selectrol valve - I was probably using the wrong terminology. I removed the threaded shaft to which I think the knob would have connected. Put the threaded piece back in and tried pulling on it to operate the valve with no luck. For kicks I removed the Selectrol valve from the lift cover. I thought I could perhaps remove the snap ring from the end and disassemble the valve, but was unable to get the snap ring to budge (with a snap ring tool).

One thing that I did notice is that when I removed the Selectrol valve, it appeared to me that there was fluid in the hole lined up with the fluid supply and in the hole lined up with the hole on the lift cover between the two studs that go up through the Selectrol valve piece. Would this indicate which position the Selectrol valve is in?

I will make you a deal. Send me the Selectrol valve and I will send you an OEM block-off plate in exchange. That will eliminate the valve as a potential source of your problem and let you get on with your diagnostics. Once I have the valve I will disassemble and inspect it and if possible repair it for you. If I can fix it I will send it back in exchange for the OEM cover, the cost of any repair parts, and a small charge for my labor.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 21:27:45 10/19/18)
Tried again on the acorn nut with no luck. I get it backed out to what seems like almost all the way and then it just spins when turning by hand. Tapped on it with a hammer and that didn't help.

By the way - the nut and threaded sleeve (valve) are turning together. You should be able to remove the nut from the sleeve by wrapping something around the threads to protect them and holding the sleeve with pliers or vice grips. Once you have the nut off the sleeve turn the sleeve back in until it seals against the body of the control valve and try Mark's suggestion of pushing in on the end of the back pressure valve to see if it makes the 3pt lift.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 07:24:33 10/20/18)
(quoted from post at 21:27:45 10/19/18)
Tried again on the acorn nut with no luck. I get it backed out to what seems like almost all the way and then it just spins when turning by hand. Tapped on it with a hammer and that didn't help.

By the way - the nut and threaded sleeve (valve) are turning together. You should be able to remove the nut from the sleeve by wrapping something around the threads to protect them and holding the sleeve with pliers or vice grips. Once you have the nut off the sleeve turn the sleeve back in until it seals against the body of the control valve and try Mark's suggestion of pushing in on the end of the back pressure valve to see if it makes the 3pt lift.

TOH

And here is a picture unabashedly stolen from JMOR showing how that valve works.

TOH

hyd_NAA_backpress_relief_flow.jpg
 
Looks like there is a good possibility that the threaded sleeve that pushes the BP valve up tight against the seal on side of lift cyl/valve casting has been backed out with the attempt to remove the acorn nut. Need to remove acorn nut from sleeve, then use large screw driver to re install sleeve. If seal washer didn't fall away, maybe all will be back in place.
yBoe2Zu.jpg

A2S8ZCW.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 11:56:45 10/21/18) Looks like there is a good possibility that the threaded sleeve that pushes the BP valve up tight against the seal on side of lift cyl/valve casting has been backed out with the attempt to remove the acorn nut. Need to remove acorn nut from sleeve, then use large screw driver to re install sleeve. If seal washer didn't fall away, maybe all will be back in place.
yBoe2Zu.jpg

A2S8ZCW.jpg

Was able to get acorn nut removed from sleeve. So this sleeve simply pushes the back pressure valve up against the lift cylinder casting? And the seal washer you reference - should there be one one the lift cylinder casting for the back pressure valve to press up against?
 

That is a very kind offer and I appreciate it. I might have to take you up on it. I have another problem now and can't get the tractor to start. I'm making another post about that. But, do you think I would be able to find a new block-off plate for near the same cost as I'd pay for shipping to and from you? New block off plates don't seem to be readily available though. I don't see any on this site or Steiners.
 
(quoted from post at 19:45:52 10/23/18)
(quoted from post at 11:56:45 10/21/18) Looks like there is a good possibility that the threaded sleeve that pushes the BP valve up tight against the seal on side of lift cyl/valve casting has been backed out with the attempt to remove the acorn nut. Need to remove acorn nut from sleeve, then use large screw driver to re install sleeve. If seal washer didn't fall away, maybe all will be back in place.

Was able to get acorn nut removed from sleeve. So this sleeve simply pushes the back pressure valve up against the lift cylinder casting? And the seal washer you reference - should there be one one the lift cylinder casting for the back pressure valve to press up against?

Yes - the sleeve seals the back pressure valve to the body of the control valve. When removing the top cover the main control valve comes with it so you have to back that sleeve out a few turns to free the back pressure valve from the control valve. The sealing washer should remain on the end of the sleeve/unloader valve or in the recess on the control valve casting.

Without the sealing washer the lift will not operate. The back pressure valve cannot create the back pressure needed to shift the unloader (aka bypass) valve when you raise the 3pt lift control handle. The unloader valve is the spool that actually directs pump pressure to the 3pt cylinder. It is shifted by a hydraulic pressure differential created by the back pressure valve when the 3pt control lever is moved to the UP position. Here is a cutaway picture courtesy of JMOR and the NAA service manual showing the relationship of those valves. If the back pressure sealing washer is missing or has fallen down into the case you will have to remove the top cover to install it.

TOH

Copyofhyd_NAA_raising.jpg
 
(reply to post at 05:36:39 10/24/18)
Something that was not accurate :oops:

Let me amend what I just said. I have never personally had one of these apart and after looking back at the pictures it appears the sealing washer in question goes between the sleeve and the banjo on the discharge tube, It is not clear to me how the banjo seals to the body of the valve. I am sure someone with actual hands on experience will clarify that.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 19:45:52 10/23/18) That is a very kind offer and I appreciate it. I might have to take you up on it. I have another problem now and can't get the tractor to start. I'm making another post about that. But, do you think I would be able to find a new block-off plate for near the same cost as I'd pay for shipping to and from you? New block off plates don't seem to be readily available though. I don't see any on this site or Steiners.

For some reason that post isn't showing in Modern view so I quoted it here. AFAIK the NAA block off plate is not available new. You may find one used but you will pay shipping on it as well so not much savings there. I don't rememebr what I paid for the one I have but it was something in the neighborhood of $20. A NAA Selectrol valve in good working condition is pretty hard to come by and probably worth $100-$200 if not more.

The block off plate would ship in a padded USPS mailer for roughly $5 - $7. If it is too heavy for first class it would still go USPS Priority flat rate for $7.10 each way. I am sure the Selectrol is too heavy for first class so it would ship Priority flat rate for $7.10 each way.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 19:45:52 10/23/18) That is a very kind offer and I appreciate it. I might have to take you up on it. I have another problem now and can't get the tractor to start. I'm making another post about that. But, do you think I would be able to find a new block-off plate for near the same cost as I'd pay for shipping to and from you? New block off plates don't seem to be readily available though. I don't see any on this site or Steiners.


This forum software is buggier than an ghetto tenement!!!! Neither your post or my reply are showing in Modern view. One more try to get something showing both ways.

AFAIK the NAA block off plate is not available new. You may find one used but you will pay shipping on it as well so not much savings there. I don't rememebr what I paid for the one I have but it was something in the neighborhood of $20 and I thought I got a good deal. A NAA Selectrol valve in good working condition is pretty hard to come by and probably worth $100-$200 if not more.

The block off plate would ship in a padded USPS mailer for roughly $5 - $7. If it is too heavy for first class it would still go USPS Priority flat rate for $7.10 each way. I am sure the Selectrol is too heavy for first class so it would ship Priority flat rate for $7.10 each way.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 19:45:52 10/23/18)
Was able to get acorn nut removed from sleeve. So this sleeve simply pushes the back pressure valve up against the lift cylinder casting? And the seal washer you reference - should there be one one the lift cylinder casting for the back pressure valve to press up against?

This forum software is buggier than an ghetto tenement!!!! Neither your post or my reply are showing in Modern view. One more try to get something showing both ways.

AFAIK the NAA block off plate is not available new. You may find one used but you will pay shipping on it as well so not much savings there. I don't rememebr what I paid for the one I have but it was something in the neighborhood of $20 and I thought I got a good deal. A NAA Selectrol valve in good working condition is pretty hard to come by and probably worth $100-$200 if not more.

The block off plate would ship in a padded USPS mailer for roughly $5 - $7. If it is too heavy for first class it would still go USPS Priority flat rate for $7.10 each way. I am sure the Selectrol is too heavy for first class so it would ship Priority flat rate for $7.10 each way.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 07:21:30 10/24/18)
This forum software is buggier than an ghetto tenement!!!! Neither your post or my reply are showing in Modern view. One more try to get something showing both ways.

the explanation is a simple one. u cannot say ste.in.ers in modern view. iirc, i was told that classic and modern view have different word censor lists. why, i don't know.
 
(quoted from post at 19:45:52 10/23/18)
(quoted from post at 11:56:45 10/21/18) Looks like there is a good possibility that the threaded sleeve that pushes the BP valve up tight against the seal on side of lift cyl/valve casting has been backed out with the attempt to remove the acorn nut. Need to remove acorn nut from sleeve, then use large screw driver to re install sleeve. If seal washer didn't fall away, maybe all will be back in place.
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A2S8ZCW.jpg

Was able to get acorn nut removed from sleeve. So this sleeve simply pushes the back pressure valve up against the lift cylinder casting? And the seal washer you reference - should there be one one the lift cylinder casting for the back pressure valve to press up against?
es & yes. In the photo of the side of cyl/valve casting, the hole is surrounded by a black, rather smashed substance. That is the backpressure valve-to-casting sealing washer.
 
(quoted from post at 13:06:35 10/24/18)
(quoted from post at 07:21:30 10/24/18)
This forum software is buggier than an ghetto tenement!!!! Neither your post or my reply are showing in Modern view. One more try to get something showing both ways.

the explanation is a simple one. u cannot say ste.in.ers in modern view. iirc, i was told that classic and modern view have different word censor lists. why, i don't know.

Good catch. I failed to take note of the reference to a competitor in his post and manually quoting him got me censored as well. I also never realized the black lists were specific to the view in use or perhaps I would have caught it myself....

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 13:55:14 10/24/18)
(quoted from post at 19:45:52 10/23/18)
(quoted from post at 11:56:45 10/21/18) Looks like there is a good possibility that the threaded sleeve that pushes the BP valve up tight against the seal on side of lift cyl/valve casting has been backed out with the attempt to remove the acorn nut. Need to remove acorn nut from sleeve, then use large screw driver to re install sleeve. If seal washer didn't fall away, maybe all will be back in place.

Was able to get acorn nut removed from sleeve. So this sleeve simply pushes the back pressure valve up against the lift cylinder casting? And the seal washer you reference - should there be one one the lift cylinder casting for the back pressure valve to press up against?
es & yes. In the photo of the side of cyl/valve casting, the hole is surrounded by a black, rather smashed substance. That is the backpressure valve-to-casting sealing washer.
So what seals the other side of the banjo - a second washer?

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 14:17:27 10/24/18)
(quoted from post at 13:55:14 10/24/18)
(quoted from post at 19:45:52 10/23/18)
(quoted from post at 11:56:45 10/21/18) Looks like there is a good possibility that the threaded sleeve that pushes the BP valve up tight against the seal on side of lift cyl/valve casting has been backed out with the attempt to remove the acorn nut. Need to remove acorn nut from sleeve, then use large screw driver to re install sleeve. If seal washer didn't fall away, maybe all will be back in place.

Was able to get acorn nut removed from sleeve. So this sleeve simply pushes the back pressure valve up against the lift cylinder casting? And the seal washer you reference - should there be one one the lift cylinder casting for the back pressure valve to press up against?
es & yes. In the photo of the side of cyl/valve casting, the hole is surrounded by a black, rather smashed substance. That is the backpressure valve-to-casting sealing washer.
So what seals the other side of the banjo - a second washer?

TOH
believe the only other sealing washer involved is between acorn nut & outside of hyd compartment main casting of tractor. My take is that if a seep occurs between 'banjo' and inside of main housing, that it matters not as that will return to sump just as does flow from tube when valve is open.
 
(quoted from post at 15:47:21 10/24/18)
(quoted from post at 14:17:27 10/24/18)
(quoted from post at 13:55:14 10/24/18)
(quoted from post at 19:45:52 10/23/18)
(quoted from post at 11:56:45 10/21/18) Looks like there is a good possibility that the threaded sleeve that pushes the BP valve up tight against the seal on side of lift cyl/valve casting has been backed out with the attempt to remove the acorn nut. Need to remove acorn nut from sleeve, then use large screw driver to re install sleeve. If seal washer didn't fall away, maybe all will be back in place.

Was able to get acorn nut removed from sleeve. So this sleeve simply pushes the back pressure valve up against the lift cylinder casting? And the seal washer you reference - should there be one one the lift cylinder casting for the back pressure valve to press up against?
es & yes. In the photo of the side of cyl/valve casting, the hole is surrounded by a black, rather smashed substance. That is the backpressure valve-to-casting sealing washer.
So what seals the other side of the banjo - a second washer?

TOH
believe the only other sealing washer involved is between acorn nut & outside of hyd compartment main casting of tractor. My take is that if a seep occurs between 'banjo' and inside of main housing, that it matters not as that will return to sump just as does flow from tube when valve is open.

That would lead me to ask why the banjo, tube, and external clamp point are even needed. Seems like an unnecessary complication that could be easily eliminated by screwing/bolting the back pressure valve into the control valve.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 16:17:07 10/24/18)
(quoted from post at 15:47:21 10/24/18)
(quoted from post at 14:17:27 10/24/18)
(quoted from post at 13:55:14 10/24/18)
(quoted from post at 19:45:52 10/23/18)
(quoted from post at 11:56:45 10/21/18) Looks like there is a good possibility that the threaded sleeve that pushes the BP valve up tight against the seal on side of lift cyl/valve casting has been backed out with the attempt to remove the acorn nut. Need to remove acorn nut from sleeve, then use large screw driver to re install sleeve. If seal washer didn't fall away, maybe all will be back in place.

Was able to get acorn nut removed from sleeve. So this sleeve simply pushes the back pressure valve up against the lift cylinder casting? And the seal washer you reference - should there be one one the lift cylinder casting for the back pressure valve to press up against?
es & yes. In the photo of the side of cyl/valve casting, the hole is surrounded by a black, rather smashed substance. That is the backpressure valve-to-casting sealing washer.
So what seals the other side of the banjo - a second washer?

TOH
believe the only other sealing washer involved is between acorn nut & outside of hyd compartment main casting of tractor. My take is that if a seep occurs between 'banjo' and inside of main housing, that it matters not as that will return to sump just as does flow from tube when valve is open.

That would lead me to ask why the banjo, tube, and external clamp point are even needed. Seems like an unnecessary complication that could be easily eliminated by screwing/bolting the back pressure valve into the control valve.

TOH
ou will need to ask some old dead Ford engineer about that. :( I guess you could say that your suggestion was taken up on the next generation of Ford tractors.
 
After a long hiatus including some other work on the tractor, I can report that when removing the acorn nut and pushing on the back pressure relief valve, I get a small amount of movement on the hydraulic arms. With the acorn nut off, there is a steady flow of fluid out the hole, but not at much pressure at all. When I push against the valve with a screwdriver, I meet some resistance have some difficulty keeping it closed, but can get it closed and stop the flow of fluid out the hole. This is when I get a small amount of action on the hydraulic arms, but no real lift per se.

Any thoughts on what this could indicate?
 
(quoted from post at 00:42:15 12/25/18) After a long hiatus including some other work on the tractor, I can report that when removing the acorn nut and pushing on the back pressure relief valve, I get a small amount of movement on the hydraulic arms. With the acorn nut off, there is a steady flow of fluid out the hole, but not at much pressure at all. When I push against the valve with a screwdriver, I meet some resistance have some difficulty keeping it closed, but can get it closed and stop the flow of fluid out the hole. This is when I get a small amount of action on the hydraulic arms, but no real lift per se.

Any thoughts on what this could indicate?
efer back to oct 2 , mhb@ufe, unloader valve is stuck. Disassemble, clean & new proper unloader valve O-ring.
 
(quoted from post at 19:57:48 10/02/18) The first thing I would do is remove the bleed plug on the front of the pump and crank the engine over without starting it. That will at least let you know the pump is pumping oil even though you won't be able to check the pressure. If it pumps oil out the bleed hole, replace the plug and remove the acorn nut on the right side of the housing below the lift cover. Then start the tractor and raise the quadrant control. Use a punch or something similar and push in on the safety valve you remove the acorn nut from. If the arms raise the unloading valve is stuck. If they don.t you should take it to someone familiar with the NAA hydraulics so they can remove the hydraulic cover to check, repair and adjust it properly. People not familiar with the NAA hydraulics don't know that when installing the cover the safety valve needs to be backed out and there is a flat rubber seal that should be replaced. after the cover is installed the safety valve needs to be screwed back in and the acorn nut put back on.

Mark

The arms didn't raise, but they did sort of move slightly. It sounds like I should remove the cover check the flat rubber seal with the safety valve? With the cover off, are there any other diagnostics I can do to check operation or to see if there are other problems?
 
(quoted from post at 21:50:22 12/27/18)
(quoted from post at 19:57:48 10/02/18) The first thing I would do is remove the bleed plug on the front of the pump and crank the engine over without starting it. That will at least let you know the pump is pumping oil even though you won't be able to check the pressure. If it pumps oil out the bleed hole, replace the plug and remove the acorn nut on the right side of the housing below the lift cover. Then start the tractor and raise the quadrant control. Use a punch or something similar and push in on the safety valve you remove the acorn nut from. If the arms raise the unloading valve is stuck. If they don.t you should take it to someone familiar with the NAA hydraulics so they can remove the hydraulic cover to check, repair and adjust it properly. People not familiar with the NAA hydraulics don't know that when installing the cover the safety valve needs to be backed out and there is a flat rubber seal that should be replaced. after the cover is installed the safety valve needs to be screwed back in and the acorn nut put back on.

Mark

The arms didn't raise, but they did sort of move slightly. It sounds like I should remove the cover check the flat rubber seal with the safety valve? With the cover off, are there any other diagnostics I can do to check operation or to see if there are other problems?
f going in there, you should surely verify the unloader valve is free!
 

TheOldHokie - I would like to see about taking you up on your offer to exchange my Selectrol valve for the OEM block off plate you have and possibly repairing the Selectrol valve. How can I contact you about this?
 
(quoted from post at 14:16:28 01/01/19)
TheOldHokie - I would like to see about taking you up on your offer to exchange my Selectrol valve for the OEM block off plate you have and possibly repairing the Selectrol valve. How can I contact you about this?

Email: [email protected]
Mobile: 301.655.0631

You can call any day - I am EST.

TOH
 
Decided to try again with the suggested procedure of taking off the acorn nut and using a punch to press in on the back pressure valve. Before, I got a little action on the lift arms but no real lift. This time, I pressed in numerous times on the back pressure valve and got complete lift on the lift arms in position control. However, I get nothing in draft control. After this, I replaced the acorn nut and get lift in position control without pressing in on the back pressure valve. When letting the quadrant control back down, I have to apply pressure on the lift arms to get them to lower, which I assume is okay because the weight of an implement would force them down.

My I&T Shop Manual seems to address this situation specifically. It says that if the system lifts in position control and not in draft control, then there is "linkage maladjustment" that should be corrected as outlined in paragraphs 119 and 120. The shop manual procedure requires use of a special tool "Nuday Tool No. N-503". I'm going to have to figure out if I have the ability to do this job.
 
I believe I'm a little closer to good hydraulic operation, but maybe not 100% there.

As stated before, I position control, I can get full hydraulic lift after removing acorn nut and pressing in on back pressure relief valve (BPRV). After pressing in on BPRV several times, I can put acorn nut back on and continue getting full lift in position control. However, I get nothing in draft control.

So today I removed lift cover and adjusted linkages in draft control then in position control per my I&T shop manual. Adjustments were definitely off and I was able to make the proper adjustments. Linkages don't appear to bind in any way. After reinstalling lift cover, I now get lift in draft control, however with a small caveat. With the lever set at draft control, there is a little bit of "play" in the lever - it can be pressed down further than its normal draft control position. In its normal position I get no lift. If I hold the lever down slightly, I get full lift and normal operation of the lift arms. If I hold the lever down completely, the hydraulics lift all the way up even if the quadrant control is in the down position, and the lift arms will not go down unless I release the lever and it returns to its "resting" draft control position.

Also, the situation with having to press in on the BPRV still remains, and after doing it several times I can reattach acorn nut and not have to press BPRV any more.

I know this is a lengthy explanation, but I am wondering if anyone has any thoughts. Would I have a different outcome if I had an actual implement attached to the lift arms? Should I remove and do something to the unloading valve to try and fix the issue with having to press the BPRV? If so, am I looking at replacing the unloading valve and/or BPRV??
 
Did you take the plate off opposite side of the center section to the pto lever (has the hydraulics dipstick) and watch whats going on? You have to drain some fluid but there should be enough to run the system and check to see what could be going on. While you had the cover of did you check the actual pressure safety valve. Its mounted in the bottom of the case where the pipes or manifold depending on which you have attach. They go from the hydraulic resevoir to the pump. I had this fail on one of my jubilees and it caused some odd behavior with the lift since it had pressure but it wasnt high enough. If its bad you will see oil flow where the manifold/pipes enter the reservoir. Also wondering if you checked the follower pin on the lift linkage for wear. Been a while since I had my cover off but this can cause issues. Cant remember off the top of my head wether it was draft or implement mode it created problems with. Just a couple of ideas I didnt see yet.
 

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