Optional "Red" Tail Light for ZT Series

alsparl

Member
Sorry for the length of read, just wishing to share. Having acquired my 40 ZTU from my grandfather s estate sale in the fall of 97, I had begun immersing myself in a parts book and operator s manual to learn as much as I could about this machine. No matter what I "thought" I knew previously, I learned a whole lot more by studyingimaging that. No the tractor is not restored, but yes, in running condition with crank start. Over time, everything came together and the pieces seemed to fit like a puzzle, except onethe one listed as the optional "red" tail light.

Some time passed after acquiring the tractor, and I was employed by OEM Tractor Parts during a couple of my college years. OEM was far more fun, interesting, and educational than college BTW. My research and development "bug" went into high-gear during that time and never slowed down as I worked with the owner to develop new items. I gained valuable knowledge and resources during that time. Still love it (R&D) to this day.

With the release of the Jensen project photos, I saw the first photos of the optional light but they were not that clear. I had an idea of what it might be but still rather vague. Of all the ZT photos and machines I have seen, I had never seen this light unit on a machine; therefore, I was encouraged by the Jensen photos.

The first lead was finding an NOS lens by MM part number using a resource gained during my time at OEM. This was a puzzling find because the light would end up being completely not what I expected the light to be. The second lead was coming across an NOS mounting bracket with the MM part number still stamped on it and it was simply listed as a misc item. I didn t know what it was until I looked the part number up. Coming across an NOS light assembly was a bit shocking as it was advertised as an automotive fixture.

I have listed photos of the individual parts but also wanted to show how the light was mounted via photo as well. Both of my fenders have the bolt holes on both the front and back of the fender. For the ease of access, I simply mounted this on the front, so yes, the photo may look reversed as the light is facing the front of the tractor.

Through additional research, I had found the light itself was used on the early R and Uni tractors as well. I found the Uni tractor correlation rather odd though. The ZT series ended in 48 yet the Uni did not start production until 51. Having spoken with some on this page with more "in-factory" knowledge than I, my assumption is MM had these left over lights and simply found a place to use them on the Uni. And yes, I could easily be wrong. There is always a reason behind my questions; thanks to everyone who chimed in on here.

Through the research performed, I found this light housing itself was used in a number of automotive applications through the 20s and 30s; however, they had different mounting methods. MM s mount appears to be unique. Allis Chalmers also used the same light housing on their model B, but again, was a different mount method more closely resembling one from automotive. A-C did switch the coloration of the lenses as the white lens is the facing out. Ironically, throughout the years of the ZT series, Farmall was installing their common rear combination light on their machines at the factory level. Out of simple curiosity, I wonder why MM never switched to something light that. Was it financial? Use what you have first before you switch? Want to be different/unique? We are "good" with what we have? I don t knowit simply made me speculate. For fun, while at OEM, I did make a 7" flat lens rear combination light and I personally thought it was awesome sitting on top of the full crown fender like it does.

Lastly, when I mounted the light fixture to my fender, I immediately recognized how far the light extends beyond the tire. I could only guess how many times these lights were hit, backed into, knocked off, etc . If you backed up to a flat wall, you would need a stop brick or something to keep you from smashing the light into the wall. My suspicion is more of the lights ended up in the trash/junk pile than kept on and used.

Could a "bad design" or "location" be the reason MM had so many of these available when the Uni went into production, thus why they used them? With both lenses being glass and very little sealing, were they too fragile? Did the war have something to do with the available inventory? I truly do not know but it s simply left up to us to speculate years later.

In conclusion, yes, the personal quest has taken me this long, which may not mean much to anyone, but I feel accomplished. If others already knew this information and I am late to the dance, please forgive me. This post is not to gain any attention or notoriety; rather, I have been blessed to have made many friends in this hobby and all have been more than generous in sharing of their knowledge and wisdom with this member of a younger generation. This is my opportunity to give back to others and MM. Again, I apologize for the lengthy read. And by all means, please let me know if you have any questions and I do welcome comments good, bad, or ugly.
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Tractor in picture another proto. 1940 has round fenders.One in picture is older. None of my 5 Z's of that era had electrics. Know
UDLX was a GM truck taillight. 1940 had first metal serial tag. Have 40 ZTU in boneyard can check.
 
My brother needed one of those for a Allis Chalmer "C" and only had picture. I found something similiar at the Mount
Pleasant, Ia Old time steam show/Swap meet and was thrilled but not happy paying $40.00. Wandered around asking all
The AC people if it was correct and most said it might be off an Implement maybe even a Case combine or baler so
felt like a fool???
When I got home dissasembled it and found the both the Red and Clear lens in good condition and snap ring&case okay
and not rusted out. My brother fixed it up and used it on the "C" and was happy to have one that close to correct.
Maybe it was the correct "Light" after all??? Better than we had before?Cleddy
 
Thank you Alsparl for the information, I too have never seen one of these lights, I do have an origonal bracket for mounting the generator on the RE engines that do not have the "bosses" cast into the crankcase side
 
My 48 RTI has that light, and so does all the Uni's. My speculation is the same as yours as to why MM used that light on the Uni's. But I have never seen that bracket before.
MMDEL
PS: Why is your light on the front or is your tires on backwards??
 
(quoted from post at 09:24:21 05/08/20) My 48 RTI has that light, and so does all the Uni's. My speculation is the same as yours as to why MM used that light on the Uni's. But I have never seen that bracket before.
MMDEL
PS: Why is your light on the front or is your tires on backwards??
MMDEL, Good morning and thank you for the information. You are correct, per parts books, both the R and the RTI call for this light. I have not seen it mounted on either of those units so I would love seeing it if you have any interest in taking a photo or two. The mounting bracket part # is RT648 for both tractors as well; never seen that either.

The reason I put the light on the front of the fender was for display purposes only for this post and the pics. I didn't take the time to pull the tractor out to attach it to the fender in the correct location. My fenders have the proper bolt holes on the front and rear so I took the easy way out.

Aaron Sparling (LeRoy, IL)
 
(quoted from post at 07:35:17 05/08/20) My brother needed one of those for a Allis Chalmer "C" and only had picture. I found something similiar at the Mount
Pleasant, Ia Old time steam show/Swap meet and was thrilled but not happy paying $40.00. Wandered around asking all
The AC people if it was correct and most said it might be off an Implement maybe even a Case combine or baler so
felt like a fool???
When I got home dissasembled it and found the both the Red and Clear lens in good condition and snap ring&case okay
and not rusted out. My brother fixed it up and used it on the "C" and was happy to have one that close to correct.
Maybe it was the correct "Light" after all??? Better than we had before?Cleddy
Hi Charles, I appreciated reading your message. I actually did speak with a few AC guys and they let me know their "version" of the light is pretty much considered one of the most difficult parts to find for the B and C tractors (their words not mine). This light unit in question was replaced by the more readily available and durable (my opinion only) "bullet light" (in mid '50 IIRC) that many manufacturers used during that time too. I never understood AC's use of the light in the manner in which they did, but again, something for us to speculate on years later.
 
(quoted from post at 07:37:16 05/08/20)
That's interesting. I never seen or knew of a tail light. Just seen and have a big rear flood light. Thanks for the post and pictures.
You are welcome, this was actually a fun adventure. Yes it took time and some money but it was worth it. I will say, while working at OEM, I had a fun time making the 7" rear combination light, both 6 and 12 volt. This was long before Steiner began retailing China repops so we did use old housings and had some brass reflectors "re-chromed." Shut all the lights off in the shop of an evening and the little red light lit the place up pretty well. I am quite certain even the "correct police" would like it.
 
(quoted from post at 09:18:20 05/08/20) Thank you Alsparl for the information, I too have never seen one of these lights, I do have an origonal bracket for mounting the generator on the RE engines that do not have the "bosses" cast into the crankcase side
Thank you John. Would your version of the generator bracket be as rare as a crankcase with no starter housing hole? Or possibly the "mate" to one?
 
(quoted from post at 07:31:40 05/08/20) Tractor in picture another proto. 1940 has round fenders.One in picture is older. None of my 5 Z's of that era had electrics. Know
UDLX was a GM truck taillight. 1940 had first metal serial tag. Have 40 ZTU in boneyard can check.
Thank you for your message. You are correct, the fenders were switched from flat top to full crown in late '38 through '44. 1945 was the beginning of the clam shell.

Is it possible those MHS photos were prototypes? Yes. Is it possible they were production units? Yes. They both have cast wheels, both have left side air cleaner, both have flat spoke steering wheels. One has a twin fuel tank. Based upon those parts alone, if the parts are time period correct, at the latest the MHS tractors would be early 1940 units. However, here's the wild card...the square back cushion seat did not appear until 1948 and was used into the ZA series. With that being said, is it possible MM simply pieced one or both of these machines together for photos, mount, fit, and demo? Yes.

One thing I learned from my grandfather, and I can attest it is true through my own experiences, nothing is impossible with MM, nothing. Just when we say "they didn't," we find out they "did." "Didn't, wouldn't, couldn't, shouldn't, and never" do not seem to be words found in the MM dictionary. ha And that is one of the fun parts I find in this hobby...the mystery. The friendships and learning from others is by far the best. Thanks again !
 
It doesn't seem very practical to change the lens from red to clear but for night work it could be done? Why the
bottom opening when no License plat was used?? I have a little original Bullet light on a WD-45 Allis Chalmers and
it hardly seems adequate for protection for night road use and no good for backing up of field use??

A topic for another time but I would like to see more about the lights(4"-5" Dia) with a switch and it could be
switched from red to white for either road or night work? Our M-602 came with one and I have seen at least one more
on a Ford tractor??cleddy
 
(quoted from post at 11:27:21 05/08/20) It doesn't seem very practical to change the lens from red to clear but for night work it could be done? Why the
bottom opening when no License plat was used?? I have a little original Bullet light on a WD-45 Allis Chalmers and
it hardly seems adequate for protection for night road use and no good for backing up of field use??

A topic for another time but I would like to see more about the lights(4"-5" Dia) with a switch and it could be
switched from red to white for either road or night work? Our M-602 came with one and I have seen at least one more
on a Ford tractor??cleddy
Hi Charles, I completely understand your questions and have asked the same. The only thing I could think of is this unit was what Guide was marketing at the time for both automotive and ag applications. I truly do not know, only speculation. With that being said, I doubt there was much night work taking place during this period, which ultimately would mean sharing the road with automotive vehicles. Again, I don't know for certain.

I have pasted in a link below for rear combination lights. YOu could always go to Steiner as well. Through my experience (not gospel as I am sure there could be others) it seemed as if there were 3 different versions used between different equipment companies. The most common was the 5" light with switch containing the internal red "jewel" lens. Another was a bullet light mounted on top of the regular 5" light. The last version was a sealed beam (4409X) style used on later machines.

https://www.external_link.com/Lights-and-Components-s/138.htm
 
(quoted from post at 11:27:21 05/08/20) It doesn't seem very practical to change the lens from red to clear but for night work it could be done? Why the
bottom opening when no License plat was used?? I have a little original Bullet light on a WD-45 Allis Chalmers and
it hardly seems adequate for protection for night road use and no good for backing up of field use??

A topic for another time but I would like to see more about the lights(4"-5" Dia) with a switch and it could be
switched from red to white for either road or night work? Our M-602 came with one and I have seen at least one more
on a Ford tractor??cleddy
Hi Charles, I completely understand your questions and have asked the same. The only thing I could think of is this unit was what Guide was marketing at the time for both automotive and ag applications. I truly do not know, only speculation. With that being said, I doubt there was much night work taking place during this period, which ultimately would mean sharing the road with automotive vehicles. Again, I don't know for certain.

I have pasted in a link below for rear combination lights. YOu could always go to Steiner as well. Through my experience (not gospel as I am sure there could be others) it seemed as if there were 3 different versions used between different equipment companies. The most common was the 5" light with switch containing the internal red "jewel" lens. Another was a bullet light mounted on top of the regular 5" light. The last version was a sealed beam (4409X) style used on later machines.

https://www.external_link.com/Lights-and-Components-s/138.htm
 
Don't know the answer to that, I had one on a Z years ago but had to swap engines, I found this one at one of the collector show auctions and bought it because I thought it was unique
 
(quoted from post at 11:27:21 05/08/20) It doesn't seem very practical to change the lens from red to clear but for night work it could be done? Why the
bottom opening when no License plat was used?? I have a little original Bullet light on a WD-45 Allis Chalmers and
it hardly seems adequate for protection for night road use and no good for backing up of field use??

A topic for another time but I would like to see more about the lights(4"-5" Dia) with a switch and it could be
switched from red to white for either road or night work? Our M-602 came with one and I have seen at least one more
on a Ford tractor??cleddy
Hi Charles, I completely understand your questions and have asked the same. The only thing I could think of is this unit was what Guide was marketing at the time for both automotive and ag applications. I truly do not know, only speculation. With that being said, I doubt there was much night work taking place during this period, which ultimately would mean sharing the road with automotive vehicles. Again, I don't know for certain.

I would paste in a link or two but this system doesn't like it. If you want to send me a message you can at [email protected] Through my experience (not gospel as I am sure there could be others) it seemed as if there were 3 different versions used between different equipment companies. The most common was the 5" light with switch containing the internal red "jewel" lens. Another was a bullet light mounted on top of the regular 5" light. The last version was a sealed beam (4409X) style used on later machines.
 
Looks like same tail light. 39 ZTs has single hole in low back of fender. Ztu has just 2 holes in bottom lip like yours.
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