135 live pto

Last year I bought a 1970 135 diesel to use for moving round bales of hay with the 3 point lift. Never used the pto, but I did check it out by shifting lever to engine and ground to ensure that the output shaft did turn in both settings.
This year after buying a new tractor with fel and hay spear, I decided to sell the 135. I hooked up my 6' finish mower to check it out again. I shifted into engine pto and eased the clutch up to engage. The mower spun up. I increased the throttle up to pto rpm's, everything fine. I started to mow some grass about 4 - 5 high and a little thick. Once the mower entered the thick grass, the pto bogged down and all but stopped. I raised the lift and the pto slowly sped back up a bit but not to full 540 rpm's.
My first thought was the pto clutch was slipping. I pulled the cover from the bottom of the bell housing to inspect the disc and adjustment clearance. The disc looked fine all the way around, no oil in the area and dry but the bolt clearance was a bit wide so I adjusted all 3 to .060 and the pedal free play to 5/16 as per Big Dean's instructions. Tried it again. Now the slight grind when shifting into engine speed is gone and the pto spins up. Tried to mow again and the same thing, pto slows down.
After searching this forum I can't find any post that mentions my specific problem. I did find a few that mentioned a couple of different areas of a possible problem. The first would point to the pto clutch, in that in engine pto the hydraulic pump shaft will stop spinning with the pedal completely depressed. Haven't tried that out yet but, with the mower spinning slowly under load the lift still works fine, no difference that I can tell in the lift speed.
The second points to the ground / engine pto selector gear and shift shaft. Haven't checked that out yet either, but plan to when weather clears up.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give as much info as possible and to try and get some ideas as to where to start looking for the problem that could cause this.

Thanks,
Roger
 
(quoted from post at 08:53:16 06/20/21) Last year I bought a 1970 135 diesel to use for moving round bales of hay with the 3 point lift. Never used the pto, but I did check it out by shifting lever to engine and ground to ensure that the output shaft did turn in both settings.
This year after buying a new tractor with fel and hay spear, I decided to sell the 135. I hooked up my 6' finish mower to check it out again. I shifted into engine pto and eased the clutch up to engage. The mower spun up. I increased the throttle up to pto rpm's, everything fine. I started to mow some grass about 4 - 5 high and a little thick. Once the mower entered the thick grass, the pto bogged down and all but stopped. I raised the lift and the pto slowly sped back up a bit but not to full 540 rpm's.
My first thought was the pto clutch was slipping. I pulled the cover from the bottom of the bell housing to inspect the disc and adjustment clearance. The disc looked fine all the way around, no oil in the area and dry but the bolt clearance was a bit wide so I adjusted all 3 to .060 and the pedal free play to 5/16 as per Big Dean's instructions. Tried it again. Now the slight grind when shifting into engine speed is gone and the pto spins up. Tried to mow again and the same thing, pto slows down.
After searching this forum I can't find any post that mentions my specific problem. I did find a few that mentioned a couple of different areas of a possible problem. The first would point to the pto clutch, in that in engine pto the hydraulic pump shaft will stop spinning with the pedal completely depressed. Haven't tried that out yet but, with the mower spinning slowly under load the lift still works fine, no difference that I can tell in the lift speed.
The second points to the ground / engine pto selector gear and shift shaft. Haven't checked that out yet either, but plan to when weather clears up.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give as much info as possible and to try and get some ideas as to where to start looking for the problem that could cause this.

Thanks,
Roger
I forgot to add, I do have the shop repair manual and can't find anything on it there.
 
I'm no expert but it sounds to me like you're searching for a problem that may not exist. My 135 diesel bogs in super heavy stuff with a 60 rotary cutter sometimes, especially coming up a slope and the skids dig in. One time it almost stalled the tractor - I picked up the 3 pt and it started back up.

It may just be a combination of poorly sharpened finish mower blades and the grass is thick enough. Try dropping into 1st or 2nd gear low and see if it still happens. I bush hog in 3rd gear low, but 1st or 2nd gives a much better cut.
 
(quoted from post at 10:27:48 06/20/21) I'm no expert but it sounds to me like you're searching for a problem that may not exist. My 135 diesel bogs in super heavy stuff with a 60 rotary cutter sometimes, especially coming up a slope and the skids dig in. One time it almost stalled the tractor - I picked up the 3 pt and it started back up.

It may just be a combination of poorly sharpened finish mower blades and the grass is thick enough. Try dropping into 1st or 2nd gear low and see if it still happens. I bush hog in 3rd gear low, but 1st or 2nd gives a much better cut.

jtxn, thanks for the reply. I can understand what you're saying, however, while pulling in low first gear, it's the pto shaft that slows down. The tractor rpm's never drop. So, it's not slowing down the tractor and the finish mower blades are sharp, I keep them that way.

Thanks,
Roger
 
Long as the PTO/hydraulic is turning at all lift will still work. Still sounds like the PTO disc is slipping under heavy load. The three PTO bolts are for release setting only, if the disc is worn or Belleville spring weak the PTO will slip.
 
(quoted from post at 10:43:42 06/20/21) Long as the PTO/hydraulic is turning at all lift will still work. Still sounds like the PTO disc is slipping under heavy load. The three PTO bolts are for release setting only, if the disc is worn or Belleville spring weak the PTO will slip.

Dieseltech, thanks for your reply. Seems I read in one of your earlier posts about the Belleville spring being weak causing a clutch problem, i.e. slipping. If I remember correctly, it's behind the release bearing, or in that vacinity, correct?
When I checked the disc, it appeared to be about 1/8" to 3/16" thick on each side. Don't know what the thickness is on a new one, but I've replaced a few clutches in my lifetime and this one looks to be in good shape, but I don't know.
Also, if it is a weak Belleville spring, would both clutches slip? Only reason I ask is because I was pulling a neighbors tractor out of a slight bog and the rear wheels were spinning until I got a good hold in the ground.
Only reason I adjusted the 3 bolts is because there was some grinding when trying to engage the pto.

Thanks for your reply, any and all help appreciated..
Roger
 
The Belleville spring is for PTO disc tension ONLY, and is placed just under the main cover. The MAIN trans drive disc is coil spring loaded, PTO side is only released
after the main disc has traveled the PTO release bolt gap dimension, then the PTO pressure plate is moved rearward to release the PTO tension. MF uses several coil
springs sizes available to hold main disc tension depending on engine size, and at least three different thickness Belleville springs are available to hold PTO tension.
Any traces of oil on either disc will cause slipping.
 

Thanks again, I just looked at the clutch parts. It shows the belleville spring as you described. Looks like a clutch assembly replacement now. Sure was hoping to find something that wouldn't require a split though. I can also see that if that spring was weak it would cause the pto to slip.
Since Agco shows two different clutches, I think a 9 spline and a 25 spline (I think), this would be a 9 spline. Is there anyway to tell before I do the split?

Thanks again,
Roger
 
Sorry misunderstood the part about RPM's not changing. It definitely shouldn't slow down in 1st gear. Good luck in your repairs.
 
1963 MF 35 6 speed NO multipower..NO Independent PTO..

How are the OIL SEALS ......as per input drive shafts to transmission...LEAKING OIL...???
Recently changed CLUTCH assembly as well as OIL SEALS etc,etc, in Transmission

Bob..

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(quoted from post at 20:34:35 06/20/21) 1963 MF 35 6 speed NO multipower..NO Independent PTO..

How are the OIL SEALS ......as per input drive shafts to transmission...LEAKING OIL...???
Recently changed CLUTCH assembly as well as OIL SEALS etc,etc, in Transmission

Bob..

Thanks for the reply Bob. Everything inside the bell housing is dry. Not saying there is no leakage, but if so it's not enough to get on the clutches. I'll know more when I split it.

Thanks again,
Roger



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