MF40B Australia.

07AKU · Dec 16, 2020

Hi,

I have been directed over here as you blokes may have more of an idea on my question.

So I have a 40B, one of the "Australian" ones that are apparently a bit different (still new to all this so forgive me if I have taken on incorrect info)
My problem is that I was recently sent front wheel bolts to replace some missing hardware, these bolts are missing about 40% of the overall shank diameter due to rust cancer and am seeking advice on the suitability of these parts for full duty (probably also mild "abuse" or hard use due to a somewhat inexperienced operator making the odd mistake)

I can readily build up the shanks with weld and turn them down no worries but will this ruin the metallurgy of the bolt and turn it to silly putty? What are these bolts made of? (Metal, duuhh! :lol: ) Are they a weldable alloy even, they appear to be cast?

Matt in Oz · Dec 17, 2020

Hi 07AKU

Get the right wheel studs leave the welder for other repairs. Ever had the front wheel of a tractor come off the hub while driving? Ask me how I know about this. A massey dealer should be able to help if you are having trouble with the size or the Agco website. Wheel studs are specialised they are not just any old bolt.

07AKU · Dec 17, 2020

This was kind of my feeling too, the sad part is these bolts have the horrible square taper head and "aren't made anymore"
I have had a hell of a time even chasing down these "not best condition" ones that I honestly would not even consider trying to salvage if I could find anything else.

Maybe its time to convince the wife I need a milling machine too and I will just have to remanufacture them from scratch :lol:
All jokes aside though does anyone here know of a reliable source of Massy40B parts in Aus?

(I promise to post a pic of the bolts just as soon as I can, legend has it that I should be able to do that soon!)

07AKU · Dec 17, 2020

07AKU · Dec 17, 2020

WOOHOO finally!

Anyways these are the bolts in question, the bottom 4 there were as sent and the top ones are mine as with the Tractor (I just wish I had a full set in my condition)

I strongly suspect these parts are suspect given the fact the same joker sent me wheel studs in 2 different sizes apparently all meant to fit the same unit..

Phil Tibbetts · Dec 17, 2020

Whoever sold you those should be ashamed, but most likely isn't.

07AKU · Dec 17, 2020

This was my feeling too but I thought "hey I'm a new guy maybe I don't know it all yet" haha.
I mean I do know these are quite rare but mmm..

Is it possible to recover these at all? (I can do some closer shots if anyone is interested)

Maybe this is the perfect excuse to convince the Mrs. I need a decent mill to make new bolts from scratch.. 8)

Jim.ME · Dec 17, 2020

You might post a picture or two of your wheel and hub set up. It doesn't appear to be like any MF set up here in the states but someone might have seen similar on a different machine. Do you have a parts book with part number for these? As I noted in your other post your set up is not in our parts books.

07AKU · Dec 17, 2020

I shall do in the AM when the light is good and I can get a few good shots. I am of the understanding it is a stock setup just for whatever reason quite an uncommon one.

John Deere D · Dec 17, 2020

Good day....I have seen that style of "BOLT". They were the proper bolt for attaching inside wheel weights.

Only time I ever seen them, was at an Auction that was selling front inside wheel weights.

Bob..

Phil Tibbetts · Dec 17, 2020

I'm wondering if a plow bolt head could be ground so it would work.

Matt in Oz · Dec 17, 2020

Hi Again

I am a Ford man but the designs of MF and Ford often aren't that different. For the industrial loaders Ford used the hubs and axles from the larger ag tractors to handle the extra weight of the loader, would not be surprised if MF did the same. The bolts in
the pic look like a plough bolt and square heads were used to attach wheel weights. Why you would have these on an industrial loader I don't know. Had a look at both Neils parts and bareco could not get a look at 40b front wheel bolts. I have never seen
any that look like your image. Did a search and the images of wheel studs for a 40b look more like what I would expect to see on one of my Fords or a MF 2wd tractor. Might be worth checking the wheel hubs as someone may have cobbled this and just
grabbed what they had. It really doesn't look original. You may need new hubs with the right factory set up as industrial loaders are very hard on front axles. I am in Australia too. All the best with it, if I can help post back.

Regards

Matt

07AKU · Dec 17, 2020

These are probably the 2 most informative images I can get of the whole setup, let me know if you are curious about shots of any other specific bits.

07AKU · Dec 17, 2020

Looks like they could work, I think I only need 2 of the flats.
Having a bit more of a look to see if I can find similar tractors I have found that even my hoe attachment is bizarre..
it looks like it was fabricated by the the factory but buggered if I can see another like it.

It sure is a heck of a ride up there, I really, really want to come up with some kind of ROPS before I use this thing for realizes.
This carries the MF "203" plate for the hoe but is quite different in the way you operate it to any other "203" hoe I have seen which all seem to use the old swiveling drivers seat with the controls mounted to the back of the hoe bracket.
The whole operator unit is held up top by a single bolt and keyed shaft and it was not funny when the key broke :shock:

Jim.ME · Dec 17, 2020

(quoted from post at 20:33:34 12/17/20)

These are probably the 2 most informative images I can get of the whole setup, let me know if you are curious about shots of any other specific bits.

You are looking for bolts that hold the front wheel weights (inner and outer) to the wheel (rim) not the bolts that hold the wheel to the hub. Remove the wheel weights and I believe you will see it resembles the parts book page I posted in your first post. You do not have a split rim set up.

Jim.ME · Dec 17, 2020

It would be great if you can find better bolts than the used ones you received, but I would not be as concerned with using those as they are or building them up and turning them down for holding the weights, not the wheel. Alternate them with the bolts holding your weights currently.

07AKU · Dec 17, 2020

Thankyou, I have been reluctant to touch them given what I was told about the rims by the PO I have seen a few of those videos on YT and wanted to wait until I had a bit more info.

I was curious how that "hub" was held on and just assumed that under those 3 bolts around the nipple was a large nut holding wheel onto the bearing setup.

07AKU · Dec 17, 2020

Hi,

got the pluck up to pull the wheel off, you are right these aren't split rims but that center section is for sure the wheel hub.

The only other fasteners that are visible are the 3 around the grease nipple.

Jim.ME · Dec 17, 2020

(quoted from post at 22:47:27 12/17/20) Hi,

got the pluck up to pull the wheel off, you are right these aren't split rims but that center section is for sure the wheel hub.

The only other fasteners that are visible are the 3 around the grease nipple.

Interesting the weight is the hub, so your rims are one piece open center. How long had the previous owner run it withonly half the bolts holding it? Given the way the rim mounts, I would still use the bolts you purchased either as is, or built up, alternating them with your originals, at least until better ones are found. Good pictures and full dimensions taken while the bolts are out will be good info to send out when searching. I wonder if a truck shop might have something for rim clamps that would work so as to use a straight bolt. Grinding the heads of square head or heavy hex head bolts to the shape of yours might be an option.

07AKU · Dec 17, 2020

Hi,

yeah the are a one piece open center (I was lead to believe they were split into 2 equal halves but are not) they have the similar rectangular reference/drive lug as the rear.

Unsure as to how long the PO ran the wheels in this condition but when I backed off those nuts with the nut destroyers (couldn't find the inch socket) they were probably around 20-30 foot pound tops going by feel..
Lucky I haven't done anything significant with this but move it in and out of the shop.

Seeing how much of the shank is unsupported I can see why one of the supplied bolts has a small bend, I like the idea of machining the large hex heads more than a total remanufacture of bolts from scratch (though that does do away with my excuse for a Mill..)

Looking and thinking on it a bit more I guess that most of the normal forces are going to be translated pretty much straight down from the rim to the hub so the bolts are really just there to stop the wheel falling off and keeping it aligned under lateral loads like turning and shouldn't (?) see to much force.

The 8 drive wheel lugs are the same diameter and there is a much greater stress placed on them as both the load wheels, having a larger diameter and being asked to hold up when using the skid steering.. or am I just talking myself into "near enough is good enough?"

Jim.ME · Dec 18, 2020

Are the rears the same arrangement as the fronts or different? Would you post a picture of a rear wheel?

If you can do it, or have it done I think having larger bolts machined to the proper size and shape would be better than weld build up and machining. You could get a known grade of bolt to start with and it would not be subjected to the heating and other possible defects that can occur with weld build up. Make sure the interface between the shank and head has a radius, not a square cut which could lead to a failure.

In the post MF 575 Hydraulics presently near yours on this forum by the index. Review that post, there might be a lead or two on possible contacts in your part of the world.

Masseynut(Australia) · Dec 18, 2020

You won't buy that hardware new from an Agco dealer, although the Ag models were similar, as it's a part that's long been deleted. I believe the original part no. would have been 564 479M1. M.F. industrial don't exist as a stand alone company anymore either. Best try a bloke by the name of Gordon Ellis in Inverell. PM me for his contact.

Kelly55 · Dec 18, 2020

Hi 07AKU,

I had the need to make one of these recently. If you don't do any good with the guy in Inverell, it didn't seem too hard to make one. For what its worth, here is what happened. I bought a medium grade bolt, cut a pyramid section out of a block of steel which happened to be a little harder than mild. I made the pyramid slightly larger than required for the finished produce. I then V'd the butt join so I could weld all the way to the centre, heated the bolt and end piece to 200deg C+, and welded them together as straight as I could with a stick welder. I needed to make many weld runs. I then put the piece in dry lime to cool down slowly. When cool, I carefully trimmed the hex part of the nut and the pyramid shape to size with a battery angle grinder. If you are worried about tensile strength with this method, maybe a chat to a metalurgist, or a welding shop for ideas about how to cut and weld those pieces, might give you more options.

Ernie

07AKU · Dec 18, 2020

Cheers for the tip, I shall get in touch!

In the process of sorting out/inspecting the rears. put one of the "studs" and wedge assemblies back on for a mock up sans washer.. and yes I know that hose needs replacing on the hoe

The rears are supposed to have studs but the PO used a square head bolt and ran a bead of weld down one of the flats to wedge them against the side of the casting to prevent spinning

this failed on 2 of the bolts and were a nightmare to remove.. why is it always the last bolts that do this XD

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