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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Definitive way to determine gas or diesel?

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jeflon

07-30-2020 12:48:49




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what is the surefire way to determine if i have a diesel or gas?

attached are a couple of photos. I have an engraving 152UA 190497D




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54FergieTO30

08-02-2020 09:18:19




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Gas Continental motor has exhaust manifold on the right side and Perkins diesel has exhaust manifold on the left side.



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Jim.ME

07-30-2020 19:47:27




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
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Vertical or horizontal exhausts are options on both gas and diesel so mean nothing as far as determining the type of engine.

Direct injection is the type of diesel injection system this engine has. Indirect injection is a type diesel injection system. You can search direct and indirect diesel injection to get more info on the systems. The gas engines of these tractors were all carbureted, no fuel injection or throttle body types.

The first thing you should get are manuals, unless you know the manuals are where the tractor is located. You should get a 135 service manual (Massey Ferguson publication 1448813M1) for your tractor. There are usually some good used OEM ones on eBay for fair prices. You should get operator's manual as well. There is a copy of a 135 operator's manual (1448077M6) on line you can download and save if you want. Here is a link.
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/984086/Massey-Ferguson-Mf-135.html I have not found any free on line copies of the 135 service manual. The AGCO site to get the OEM manuals is AGCOpubs.com

The parts book to use free on line can be found at: https://apb.agcocorp.com/

Here is a page from the Operator's Manual about the engine. Hopefully this will work as a verified source for your needs.

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jeflon

07-30-2020 19:29:24




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
Right. The part about never seeing gas injector on an old tractor validates what I was thinking earlier.

I admit that I was a little confused when I found via serial number it was a 1970 model, but had an injection pump at all. A neighbor had gone over to look at it for me and told me it was gas, but when I got pictures and looked at the manual, I realized it had the pump (verified by folks on this forum). It makes sense. I haven't seen an engine on any motor older than the 90s without a carberator.

I agree, having hands and eyes on the project helps. Unfortunately, I am in the same boat with photos only right now. The info i have gotten on this forum so far has helped a lot in guiding my research.

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jeflon

07-30-2020 18:59:53




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
My step dad and his dad used it for their paving company. I drove it in the mid 80s working with them in the summer, so it's been around at least that long.

It has been parked for about 6-7 years. I bush hogged with it a couple of years before my step dad passed in 2016. The engine ran fine, but i vaguely recall some issue with certain gears. There is also a leak, possibly hydraulic but not sure, that covered the left side somewhere close to the fuel filters...

it is 4 hours away and since i decided to get it running again, I've only been able to clean it up and get photos on weekends so as to start ordering parts. Im guessing to start with hoses, belts, flush and refill radiator, etc.

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jeflon

07-30-2020 18:57:30




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
yea, I am pretty excited to get started on it. Once i know exactly what i am dealing with, I think it will be easier than a car. As you say, everything is out in the open, no fenders.

Right now the challenge is that it is 4 hours away and I am trying to get parts ordered and delivered so I can get it up and running during my next visit. Im having to learn an entirely new system of part numbers, serials, naming conventions, etc. Im still stuck on picking the right fan belt :)

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ptfarmer

07-30-2020 18:45:31




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
Once you learn the tractor you'll find they are not much different that cars. Now that I'm older I prefer to work on tractors, no fenders to lean over!!



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jeflon

07-30-2020 18:39:38




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Well, that didn't take long...

I don't know how many cylinders because all I currently have are photographs.

I don't know what an injection pump is, but I know what fuel injection is and that both gas and diesel use the technology. I have worked on cars but am pretty ignorant about tractors, so I have no point of reference to how fuel injection is implemented in those vehicles. A MF135 looks nothing like a 3 series BMW or a XS650.

My post regarding the exhaust served it's purpose. I now have an explanation.

When I say I take everyone's word, that is my way of politely asking for a verified source without implying that I am doubting those more experienced than myself. It doesn't mean I am going to start buying parts based on someone's work. It means I appreciate the information and the time invested in providing it, please give me sources so that I can use them in the future.

I have better things to do with my time than sign up for a website and play dumb.

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rustred

07-30-2020 19:06:02




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 18:39:38  
well i have seen a lot of things go on here in about 20 years. 3 cyl. diesel or 4 cyl. gas. no such thing as gas injection on an old tractor. its a diesel.
i can give a decent answer if i have the info. when a problem arises we need all the info we can get. we are not there with our hands and eyes.



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ptfarmer

07-30-2020 17:58:35




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
If it were gas it wouldn't have injection. Also if it were a gas engine there would be a distributor where the injector pump is.



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jeflon

07-30-2020 17:09:55




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I saw that one. It says the D is for direct injection but no mention of diesel.

I take everyones word here that its a diesel. I thought there may be an official guide somewhere



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rustred

07-30-2020 18:15:31




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 17:09:55  
the official guide would be your eyes! dont pay attention to the style of exhaust pipe. there is over head and under slung. i asked how many cyls. and you dont even know that but i am sure surprised you dont know what an injection pump is. from reading this you know nothing about gas or diesel and take our word for it. how do you know we are telling the truth. bawsha me. maybe an eskimo could sell snow. there are time when i wonder if its someone playing dumb to see what reaction you would get with some of those questions. could not help it now im in the jail house for speaking my mind again.

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Jim.ME

07-30-2020 17:05:14




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
Here is a link to where the info I have you came from:

https://maxiforce.com/perkins-engine-identification-guide



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jeflon

07-30-2020 16:44:57




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
My step dad and his dad used it for their paving company. I drove it in the mid 80s working with them in the summer, so it's been around at least that long.

It has been parked for about 6-7 years. I bush hogged with it a couple of years before my step dad passed in 2016. The engine ran fine, but i vaguely recall some issue with certain gears. There is also a leak, possibly hydraulic but not sure, that covered the left side somewhere close to the fuel filters...

it is 4 hours away and since i decided to get it running again, I've only been able to clean it up and get photos on weekends so as to start ordering parts. Im guessing to start with hoses, belts, flush and refill radiator, etc.

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jeflon

07-30-2020 16:36:07




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
do you have a link to the perkins info?

Everything i found was on the post 1974 numbering scheme.



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farmer rock

07-30-2020 16:34:03




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
that for sure is a diesel.it looks like you have a perkins AD3.152 diesel...how long have you had the tractor?

Rock



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jeflon

07-30-2020 16:07:00




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
Thanks, this is very helpful.

One thing that was confusing me was all of the photos of diesel tractors I came across had vertical exhaust pipe. This one runs along the bottom to the rear.



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Jim.ME

07-30-2020 15:59:01




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
From the MF135 service manual



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Jim.ME

07-30-2020 15:52:30




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
That is an injection pump, you have a diesel.

Your engine serial number you posted 152UA 190497D; here is the breakdown from Perkins information.

152 = Perkins 3 cylinder, 152 cubic inch engine

U = built in the United Kingdom

A = for Massey Ferguson

190497 = engine number

D = Direct injection diesel



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jeflon

07-30-2020 15:15:52




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
When I was there and smelled the tank, I couldn't swear to anything.
Ill check for distributor cap this weekend, but it does look like there is an injector pump:

See attached photo:



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old

07-30-2020 15:49:03




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 15:15:52  
That does appear to be an injector pump but it could also be a hyd pump the picture does not show enough of the engine to be sure



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Bob N.Y.

07-30-2020 15:45:53




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 15:15:52  
That sure looks like an injector pump.



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old

07-30-2020 13:57:44




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
#1 smell of fuel in the tank. #2 does it have a distributor and spark plug or does it have injectors??
#3 does it have a carb? Or does it have an injector pump?



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jeflon

07-30-2020 12:56:17




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
Massey Ferguson 135

serial number 9A94037



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rustred

07-30-2020 12:54:52




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
and what are you referring to?? tractor, lawn mower, truck?



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jeflon

07-30-2020 12:52:41




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:48:49  
MF 135 1970 model per serial 9A94037



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rustred

07-30-2020 13:02:44




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to jeflon, 07-30-2020 12:52:41  
do u see any spark plugs and wires or does it have steel lines going to the cyl's. see if your finger gets black with soot from exhaust pipe. if it smell like diesel when it starts its a diesel. whats in the fuel tank? how many cyl's does it have ?3 or 4 ? what color is the oil? ....



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Rickf1985

08-12-2020 09:47:48




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 Re: Definitive way to determine gas or diesel? in reply to rustred, 07-30-2020 13:02:44  
Good Lord people! Yes it IS a diesel! YES, That is the Diesel injection pump and YES, it has three cylinders! I have the same exact engine in a 1970 MF20 industrial. Give the man a break!!!



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