MF 65 - Did I Just Kill my Hydraulic Pump?

enrightj · Mar 22, 2020

I have a Massey 65 MKII and last year I had a diverter valve with external remotes installed. On my diverter valve moving the valve arm to the left postition engaged the 3 point while moving arm to the right engaged my external hydraulics. Placing the valve arm in the center put it in this weird dead zone where the pump laboured but nothing happened. I'm assuming this shuts off the flow through the stand pipe but I'm not sure. After a winter of leaving the arm in the 3 point position to move round bales I decided to test the remotes out. They worked but while engaged I moved the diverter valve to the center to test the pressure (my mechanic did this so I assumed it wouldn't hurt anything). I felt the pressure for a second and all the sudden I felt it release, almost like something popped. I switched it back to my 3 points and now they won't lift. I took off the diverter valve and turned the tractor over and nothing came out of the stand pipe. Have I just bent myself over a barrel and done something to completely mess up my hydraulic pump? Any insight would be tremendously helpful!

Thanks!
Julian

David G · Mar 22, 2020

could have sheared a key

DavidP, South Wales · Mar 22, 2020

Hello Julian, the central position of the isolating valve is not a recognised position fot it's use. It would not place any more load on the system than would a hydraulic cylinder at full extension. To try and pinpoint the problem partly drain the oil and remove the RH side cover. Operate the Position Control lever and observe if that movement is transferred to the pump lever. Remove the stack pipe. Try not to crush it if you use a grips. Start the engine an run at idle speed. Using a flashlamp look inside and forward. At the point where the stackpipe enters the pump front plate you should see a fountain of oil being sent out by the pump if everything is working. Increase the engine speed very slowly and the fountain should increase accordingly. If no oil flow is
Visible the something has happened within the pump. Move the pump lever by hand. It should be spring loaded to remain leaning forward.
Let us know what you find.
DavidP, South Wales

enrightj · Mar 23, 2020

Hi David,

My PTO still spins when I turn it on. Would it still spin if I sheared a key?

Thanks,
Julian

enrightj · Mar 23, 2020

Hi David,

Thanks for the information. I will try to take a look at this sometime soon. In the meantime I'm borrowing my neighbour's tractor. I called the local mechanic today who told me my pump was dead. A rebuild kit is about $500 CAD or a new pump is $1800 CAD. I would like to take it one step at a time and diagnose with 100% certainty that my pump is dead before going this route.

Julian

John Deere D · Mar 23, 2020

Good day enrightj.........
I do NOT own a MF 65....and am not familiar if your 65 has an independent PTO and or Multipower?

My MF 35 X required a three point lift HYDRULIC PUMP......

I would not purchase a new $500.00 + pump as per suggested by "Mechanic"

A NEW PUMP from All STATES AG PARTS.......(2 years ago)...$242.49

With an original MF SERVICE MANUAL....Replaced PUMP.........

Bob..Retired Power Engineer..

Bob N.Y. · Mar 23, 2020

Independent PTO was not available on the 35, 50 or 65.

John Deere D · Mar 23, 2020

If you decide to remove Hydraulic pump....here's some pictures... I removed and replaced a pump.....

Service manual was my best friend.......
This manual covered MF 65.......

1963 MF 35 X..

Bob...Retired Power.... Engineer......I have NEVER worked on a MF 65
You may not have to replace your pump?.

DavidP, South Wales · Mar 24, 2020

Not sure about the reference to the key as to the to the best of my 46 years with MF there are only splined drives. Yes you will still have a working pto unless of course the main pump shaft has broken and that is vvvvvvvv unlikely.
DavidP

enrightj · Mar 24, 2020

Thanks Bob! This is tremendously helpful. I might not need to replace the pump but I am assuming I will. I?ll know more when I can drain the oil and take a look. I started looking around and was able to find a brand new pump for $350 CAD, so much less than what I was quoted.

I had a couple of questions for you regarding replacing the pump:
1) did you have to remove the PTO? If so, Was it difficult?
2) other than a new pump, which other pieces did you need to order?
3) is there any chance you would be able to send me the pages of the service manual that cover replacing the pump? I can?t find the official service manual around here and the third party manual I have is terrible.

Thanks!
Julian

enrightj · Mar 25, 2020

Hi David,

Thinking about this more, is there a chance something happened to my relief valve? There's a good chance this is the original pump.

Thanks,
Julian

John Deere D · Mar 25, 2020

Yes enrightj ...I had to remove the PTO SHAFT.....no big deal...drain oil first.......If bearing housing / 0-Ring is tight.. make a puller... attach to PTO SHAFT.. pull PTO AFT...

The Coupling on the aft end of the Quille shaft that drives the Differential was badly worn...see picture..

Top cover gasket...right and left inspection port gaskets...

Bob...

John Deere D · Mar 25, 2020

FIY......

Bob...

enrightj · Mar 29, 2020

Hi everyone,

I had a chance to drain out some oil and take a look inside. I didn't really see any bubbling coming from the pump as per David's suggestion, but it was difficult to actually see the pump in action when the back tire is still on so I grabbed my GoPro and made a video https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h7xAq1SMGYDnXZEOJWAKvVxwylFvk6p7/view?usp=sharing . I think I can see oil bubbling out of the pump in the upper right of the video. Halfway through I lowered the 3 point control and you can see the flow stops. I raised it up again and I can see the flow starts back up. Does this mean my pump might still be good and it could be something else? I did see some filings on the magnetic oil cap.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks!
Julian

John Deere D · Mar 29, 2020

Bob....Owner MF 35 & TEA-20 & 2-N Ford

enrightj · Mar 30, 2020

Hi Bob,

I believe what you indicated is #2. I put the stand pipe back and recorded it https://photos.app.goo.gl/o7jvBNmsMezeWakPA . As you can see there isn't oil coming out from somewhere else. I think I will need to go ahead and take the pump out.

Thanks,
Julian

enrightj · Apr 19, 2020

Hi Bob,

I just wanted to follow-up. I finally had a chance to open my tractor up. One of the piston rings was blown out which explains why we can see oil in the video but noting coming up the pipe.

Now I'm running into another issue pulling the pump out. It turns out my tractor was the multipower version, however, someone removed the multipower pump which normally sits on top of the hydraulic pump. When I try to pull the pump out the shaft hits on the differential shaft https://photos.app.goo.gl/z4nSjxoQHPP8Ccja6. Is there any way of removing the pump without splitting the tractor? I am also comfortable cutting the pump shaft if I can fit a non multipower pump.

Thanks,
Julian

John Deere D · Apr 20, 2020

Quote:
Is there any way of removing the pump without splitting the tractor? I am also comfortable cutting the pump shaft if I can fit a non multipower pump.

enrightj ...I have NO experience with a any MF that incorporates a Multipower system.

It would be best, to see an answer form a experiences MF 65 owner/ Mechanical tech.

I can think of four "YT" members, Australia, Wales,Ireland and the USA that I know could supply a definitive answer.

Bob...

scoobieguy · Apr 20, 2020

I can confirm you do not need to split the tractor to take out the multi-power pump, I just removed one from a MF50.

The trick is to remove the multipower assembly from the main pump, you have 3 bolts that attach the multipower assembly to the main pump.

Once you have the multipower part removed then the main pump will fit through the top cover opening.

I Believe multi-power or not, the main pumps are the same part numbers, you just have extra parts and gears when you have multi-power.

See the attached picture, that shows the pump removed.

scoobieguy · Apr 20, 2020

I forgot to mention I removed the high-low fork and planetary gear to give myself more space to wiggle out the pump, but I don't believe this was required. The more you stuff you remove the more likelihood you will forget something on re-assembly.

You also need to remove the PTO gear at the back, it should just slide off the PTO shaft.

Splitting the back end-of the tractor is more difficult than splitting at the tranny / clutch, you would need to reseal to avoid future leaks. and the bolts are difficult to get to. You need almost 1ft of space to move the tractor back far enough to clear the casting, multiple floor jack, rolling backend.

enrightj · May 3, 2020

Removing the high/low did the trick! I got the old pump out and a new one installed. Unfortunately It still not getting any oil coming out of the stand pipe. I didn t see anything I needed to pull out of the new pump before installing. I do see some oil spilling out of the top but not out of the pipe. Going to drain the oil again and take the side cover off. What could I be missing?

scoobieguy · May 4, 2020

I had to go back to the first post to understand the original problem, now with the new pump did you put the cover in place? That diverter valve maybe a culprit or hiding another problem.

If you don't have the cover back on the flow should look like this video on YouTube search for [b:c80db132ce]MF 165 Multi Power - breaking in the new hydraulic pump - part 10[/b:c80db132ce]

In order for the pump to "activate" the outside lever needs to be all the way up, no need to touch the draft control. Worse case place them at the sector mark <.>

It sounds like an adjustment in the linkage, Both fingers should be in front of the roller.... sounds like your control valve is stuck open. you can take off the right side cover where the dipstick is and move it with a screwdriver. Do not stick yours hands in there.

shaeff · May 5, 2020

(quoted from post at 19:36:10 03/23/20) Independent PTO was not available on the 35, 50 or 65.

Huh? Independent PTO is pretty much the same as a Live PTO. In that case, I find your statement to be incorrect unless I'm missing something?

My 35 has a live PTO. (two stage clutch). Many others do as well.

ptfarmer · May 5, 2020

(quoted from post at 04:58:00 05/05/20)

(quoted from post at 19:36:10 03/23/20) Independent PTO was not available on the 35, 50 or 65.

Click to expand...

Huh? Independent PTO is pretty much the same as a Live PTO. In that case, I find your statement to be incorrect unless I'm missing something?

My 35 has a live PTO. (two stage clutch). Many others do as well.

Independent pto can be engaged.disengaged without having to use the clutch (works like a automatic transmission), live pto requires you to use the clutch.

enrightj · May 9, 2020

Ah ha! Found the problem! I just didn't have the stand pipe in right. It's back to working like a champ! Thanks so much for all the help!

Julian

shaeff · May 29, 2020

(quoted from post at 10:29:50 05/05/20)

(quoted from post at 04:58:00 05/05/20)

(quoted from post at 19:36:10 03/23/20) Independent PTO was not available on the 35, 50 or 65.

Click to expand...

Huh? Independent PTO is pretty much the same as a Live PTO. In that case, I find your statement to be incorrect unless I'm missing something?

My 35 has a live PTO. (two stage clutch). Many others do as well.

Click to expand...

Independent pto can be engaged.disengaged without having to use the clutch (works like a automatic transmission), live pto requires you to use the clutch.

Good to know, thanks Ken! I had always heard the terms used interchangeably. Now I know that to be incorrect. Thanks!

MF 65 - Did I Just Kill my Hydraulic Pump?

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