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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Pulling my hair out over starter issues

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zack500

01-14-2020 07:27:55




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Hello to everyone. I will be as brief as possible. 1975 MF diesel. Starter started to drag. Thought battery was low. Put on fresh battery. Same thing. Just a couple of "wamp wamps" when trying to start. Put on new starter. Not getting 12 volts on the power wire, the wire coming from the ignition switch to the neutral switch and then to solenoid. Tried to jumper with a screw driver across the big lug with cable coming from battery, to the small lug. Same as before I started working on the thing. All I get is a wamp wamp. So I'm thinking the cable from battery is bad, because obviously not getting enough amps to turn the motor fast enough. So I take jumper cables, bypass everything and put the hot jumper cable on large lug, and ground the other jumper cable. And low and behold I get the same thing!!! Just a wamp wamp. Can anyone offer me some guidance? Could the new starter be bad? If I'm not properly grounded will that reduce the amps going to solenoid? I am definitely out of ideas. I even thought maybe bad spot on the flywheel. So I take off new starter, Flywheel is a little worn, then I engage the PTO and turn it with a pair of channel locks to a new spot on flywheel and still nothing. Any ideas would be very much appreciated! Thank You

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2tractors

01-15-2020 04:43:39




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to zack500, 01-14-2020 07:27:55  
Make sure paint is not present behind starter mount.



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zack500

01-15-2020 09:10:10




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to 2tractors, 01-15-2020 04:43:39  
Ok, I got the tractor cranking. I was able to get 0 gauge cables with eyelet crimped on the end at NAPA. I sanded battery posts, sanded the area around where the ground is bolted to tractor, and the tractor fired right up. So it was one of the cables that was bad, or perhaps ground was losing contact. The funny thing is, the old cables look fine! I am not able to see any corrosion around any of the contacts. Maybe the wire was corroding on the inside. Thanks for all the comments and good advice from you guys! I really appreciate it!

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rustred

01-16-2020 07:49:46




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to zack500, 01-15-2020 09:10:10  
I pretty much was going to guarantee you need cables. take those old ones and cut the ends off near the battery cables ends, pretty sure you will see green corrosion. I have found this many times.



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old

01-15-2020 09:49:39




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to zack500, 01-15-2020 09:10:10  
Battery cable go bad just from being old and used a lot. One or both ends could be corroded inside where you cannot see. Or the cable it self could have gone bad which does happen. The common man does not have a VOM that will test for resistance which can build up over the years and that is why they go bad



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Masseynut(Australia)

01-15-2020 04:01:07




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to zack500, 01-14-2020 07:27:55  
When you say the starter started to drag, was this an immediate problem or has the cranking speed been getting slower over a period of time? Have you removed the starter and checked with a pry bar that the engine is turning over with relative ease until compression is reached? Had the tractor been run with low oil pressure or been overheated before the problem arose?
May be silly questions but just thinking outside the square.

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brooktre

01-14-2020 10:39:33




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to zack500, 01-14-2020 07:27:55  
I m no expert, but I recommend that you perform a voltage drop test on your wires. Google voltage drop testing for many instructions. It will help identify where you have a problem before replacing more components.



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zack500

01-14-2020 11:32:06




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to brooktre, 01-14-2020 10:39:33  
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. I'll keep you all posted as to what I find.



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DavidP, South Wales

01-14-2020 13:52:22




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to zack500, 01-14-2020 11:32:06  
Hi Zack,
Quite a problem that you have there. If the tractor were mine I would now refit the existing cables and starter and battery. I don't think anyone has mentioned using a heavy jumper lead connected to the starter end of the earth battery cable and a good earth on the engine. Jumper clamps are quite a good fit around a bolt head such as one on the front axle casting to the sump (oil pan). Although unlikely it is possible that your problem is bad earthing within the starter. If there is no improvement try connecting the pole of the battery to the chassis via the jumper lead.
Again if there is no improvement hold the key in the 'start' position for a few seconds longer than you would normally do. Check closely the ends of the battery cables for any sign of heating at all. I had a Ford 5610 around two weeks ago with a similar problem to yours. In this case it turned out to be a bad connection between the inner nut on the starter earth bolt connection and the end-plate of the starter. There has to be a simple answer. Don't pull out any more hair, you might end up looking like me!!!!!!
DavidP, South Wales

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Jim.ME

01-14-2020 10:37:40




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to zack500, 01-14-2020 07:27:55  
NAPA should be able to get heavier cables, some will make cables. Truck or equipment shops should be able to help you. A welding supply house will have heavy cable (welding lead) and assorted lugs to go over studs, they likely won't have the battery terminal ends.



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rustred

01-14-2020 08:51:53




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to zack500, 01-14-2020 07:27:55  
you can buy a cheapo battery load tester for around 50.00 one of the best things you will spend money on. if you changed the battery and starter you would have seen if the cables are corroded. booster cables are pretty useless on a diesel engine. need the heavy guage ones and let booster unit run at about 2000 rpm for max amps. did you run the starter in a vise to make sure it kicks in spins over fast at least. all you have left is the cables to deal with. , if battery and starter is good. that green corrosion will work its way inside from the clamp down the wire. saw lots like this. that" wamp wamp" is that the engine trying to turn over??? if so it tell the story.

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zack500

01-14-2020 09:44:42




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to rustred, 01-14-2020 08:51:53  
Yes, I did test the starter before I put it on. It engages and spins. You would think you could see green corrosion but I can't. But obviously there must be corrosion inside that is not evident. And yes, wamp wamp is the sound it makes trying to turn over.



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Dieseltech

01-14-2020 07:59:48




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to zack500, 01-14-2020 07:27:55  
Did you do a load test on the battery? That could be the trouble, or cables, OR the starter. Using jumper cables ONLY does not always prove anything either, as they are usually smaller than the tractor diesel cables are. Another problem COULD be the engine itself, hope not..



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zack500

01-14-2020 08:20:42




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to Dieseltech, 01-14-2020 07:59:48  
Thanks for your reply. I did not do a load test on the battery but I put my truck battery on just to be sure it wasn't the battery. I feel confident that I'm getting enough juice from the battery. I have thought about changing both the positive and negative cables. Even though they look good someone told me they could be corroded on the inside of the cable. And I too thought maybe something crazy is going wrong with the engine but I can turn engine over with the pto engaged by turning the pto shaft.

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old

01-14-2020 08:39:25




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to zack500, 01-14-2020 08:20:42  
Battery cable can/will go bad and you cannot see that they are bad. If it where me I would replace them one at a time and be sure the area where you ground is very clean and maybe even at the starter mount bolt it self. Also use 0 or 00 for the cables not auto type battery cables



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zack500

01-14-2020 09:48:17




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to old, 01-14-2020 08:39:25  
Ok thanks, I believe that replacing the cables is the next logical move. Not sure where to get the heavy gauge cables though. The auto stores only seem to have 4 gauge cables.



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old

01-14-2020 11:09:57




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 Re: Pulling my hair out over starter issues in reply to zack500, 01-14-2020 09:48:17  
Most auto parts stores have the heavier cables but not out front where yo ucna find them. I got the ones I have for my IH584 front O'Reilly's. Yes I had the make them up as in put on the ends but that was no big deal



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