mf203 backhoe removal?

hey guys,I posted a couple months ago about taking the mark 4 backhoe off my mf203,but it looks like I could only remove it semi permanently,so I guess that's my only option,i was wondering if all I have to do is loop the hoses before the backhoe,here is the way its set up,1st hose (3/4") from pump to backhoe,2nd hose (1")from pump to opposite side of reservoir's filter (mf200 loader),3rd hose (1") from rear of of loader frame to backhoe,4th hose (3/4") from bottom of loader valve to backhoe.....so my question is can I connect the two 3/4" hoses from pump to bottom of loader valve,and then plug 3rd hose (1") at the rear of loader frame?from what I can see,it is using the backhoe as a valve of sorts,since it runs to backhoe first then loader,but I will maybe down the road put quick couplers on it,but seeing as the backhoe will eventually need a lot of work,i will wait for that,and I won"t be using it that much anyhow,thanks,Rock
 
I thought we went over that pretty well before. Start by reviewing those posts and confirming the flow directions discussed are correct and that a return oil to reservoir path is available and open from the loader valve. If all of that is correct you should be able to hook the pressure hose from the pump that goes to the backhoe to the hose that goes from the hoe to the loader valve. The hoe oil return to reservoir should not be needed and could be capped. This is based on your descriptions.
 
hi Jim,in the last post you had answered all my questions,and I thankyou for sharing your knowledge with me...the reason I brought this back up was because I haven't had the opportunity to make it happen,so before doing it I just want to be sure of what I am doing,as you can tell I always 2nd guess myself because of little experience I have,i will read the old post and gather the information,thanks,Rock
 

I reviewing some of you photos again, I noticed something you hadn't mentioned. Is that a disconnect fitting I circled in the attached photo in the pressure line from the front pump going to the back hoe valve? Is there a similar fitting somewhere in the line going from the backhoe to the loader control valve? If so it would appear it was set up so that you just use those disconnects to change the hose coming from the pump over to the one going to the loader valve. Protect the ends from dirt and plug the return to reservoir from the hoe. Just something else you should check out.
 
This is what looks like a threaded disconnect fitting I was asking about, sorry photo didn't attach before. It looks like it was set up with disconnects at one time. and I was wondering if there is another like it on the other pressure hose to the loader valve.


mvphoto47220.jpg
 
that is the only hose like that,but it looks to me like i could just screw that into the loader valve,the hose is plenty long enough and its the same thread,do you think that would work?thanks,rock
 

It should, but make sure the valve can return oil to the reservoir. It should from the way you described the plumbing, but it will be well to confirm. Just use an air hose to blow in the loader valve port the hose from the hoe hooks to. With the levers in neutral you should hear air go to the reservoir, as it is open center.
 
ok,i will be sure to do that first,i should be tackling it next weekend,so I will update you afterwards,thankyou for all your help,happy new year,rock
 
Rock, if I understand your setup, you have a high pressure hose that goes from the pump to the backhoe. This is different than most that I am familiar with. Is this how yours is setup?

Most that I ve seen have the high pressure hose going from the pump to a backhoe-loader selector valve or from the pump to a power beyond loader valve. In either case, high pressure hydraulic hose to the backhoe comes from the selector valve or the power beyond loader valve.
 
That is correct,hydraulics run to
backhoe valve first,then loader valve,
I also thought it was strange,but from
what I understand the backhoe is not a
factory setup,so I guess it was all
backyard mechanics,but it got the job
done so I can't complain about it,but
I just don't need it on
regularly,thanks,Rock
 
If you look at the agco parts pages it shows how a 200 loader was originally set up. I would guess that when backhoes were added a selector valve was piped to the loader valve to divert the fluid..

I'm not sure of your setup. How does the loader get high pressure fluid from the pump? Is there a selector valve on the backhoe itself?
 

From what he has posted it appears he has a Henry Mark IV hoe, not a Massey Ferguson model. So yes it may have a diverter/selector valve on the hoe, or some other feature Henry used. We can't see his exact piping and valves, we only have his descriptions in that prior post. He has said the hoe has a return to the reservoir, if the return to reservoir is open in the loader valve as well, it is likely the hoe has a diverter/selector valve.

The loader gets high pressure oil from the hoe, just as high pressure oil can be sent to a hoe valve from the loader valve, with the proper components, on set ups like Jaypat88 has been discussing.

Rock, can you get some photos of the valves where the different hoses attach? Is Mark IV all that is on the metal tag (shows in one of the photos in another of your posts) riveted on the cross frame the hoe floor boards are on?
 
Hey guys,it only says mark IV on the
backhoe,also I noticed when I was
taking pictures,there is another one
of those fittings,so I was wrong about
that,here's the pictures,thanks,Rock
cvphoto931.jpg


cvphoto932.jpg


cvphoto933.jpg
 
Jim - He might consider putting a selector valve at the loader valve. That would make the hydraulic disconnection of the backhoe easy with 2 quick-disconnects as you previously mentioned. With 2 QDs you can disconnect the backhoe and ensure you have a proper hydraulic path and have no exposed fittings when your done. I m not familiar with a Henry hoe so I don t know how difficult the mechanical disconnect would be.
 
Rock,

Where does the hose having that the second disconnect go? The photos help but I can't tell which hose is which. Any way you can ID them on the photos?

brooktre,

This may only need the return from the hoe to reservoir plugged/capped and the two disconnects hooked together for now, so he can remove the hoe, as he is trying to minimize cost at present. Yes, he might add a selector valve at a later date. Figuring this out now will make that easier if he decides to do it.
 
Hey Jim,that is the return line for
the backhoe,that connects to rear of
loader frame,so I don't know if I can
since the other hose with that fitting
is a pressure line,and if I
disconnected that hose I would have no
pressure line going to loader valve,at
least thats what it seems, but I could
be wrong,wouldn't be the first time
:),what do you think?thanks,Rock
 
(quoted from post at 19:20:54 01/01/20) Hey Jim,that is the return line for
the backhoe,that connects to rear of
loader frame,so I don't know if I can
since the other hose with that fitting
is a pressure line,and if I
disconnected that hose I would have no
pressure line going to loader valve,at
least thats what it seems, but I could
be wrong,wouldn't be the first time
:),what do you think?thanks,Rock

No, they can't be hooked together if that is the return to reservoir. That's why I was saying we can't tell which is which in the photos, you need to ID them for us. To remove the hoe I still think, hook the hose (to the backhoe valve) from the pump to the hose going from the hoe valve to the loader valve and plug the hoe return hose. Also be sure the loader valve return to reservoir is open.

To brooktre's point: Does the hose from the pump go directly into the backhoe valve or dos it go into a valve that the hose to the loader valve also hooks into? If so that would likely be a diverter valve.
 

It looks like it is just the hoe control valve, but it is hard to tell from the photos. The plumbing is such that it looks like the hoe valve might have a power beyond plug in it, which would mean the hoe's return to reservoir hose would not be active if the pressure oil was going to the loader valve, where it was returned to the reservoir.

For now controls it appears to have a foot swing control, you should have two levers for the stabilizers, a bucket lever, a dipper lever, and a boom lever. Are there any other controllers or handles? If it has a diverter valve there needs to be another lever, or handle of some type, to operate it. Do you see one?
 
Hi Jim,it does have a weird lever that
is in between right stabilizer and
bucket levers,it is upside down
compared to the other levers on the
backhoe,I have never messed with it,I
have no clue what it's for,but the
loader works without having to switch
it over from backhoe,and also the
other way around,i will take more
pictures first thing tomorrow morning,
thanks,Rock
 
Rock - if you search "hydraulic selector valve" and look at images you'll see a variety of valves. For this application, a basic two position valve could be used. Since both your hoe and loader without any input from you (i.e.changing the position of a selector valve) you may not have one.
 
Hi brooktre,I don't have to switch
between the hoe and loader the way it
is now,so I am guessing no selector
valve,thanks,Rock
 
I was looking a a Henry Mark 2 manual and it said when installing on a tractor to use a selector valve at the loader valve. If this were my unit I would consider adding a selector valve. I think this would make removing the backhoe easier. Your cost would be the selector valve and a couple of quick-disconnect (QD) fittings and possibly a plug for the backhoe control valve. I think that is all that would be needed. You may already have the QD fittings, I just can t be sure from your pictures.
 
Hey brooktre,since for now I am
planning to just take it off,I will
eventually fix it up and and make
easier to hookup/unhook for when I
would use it,but I also have to
replace the 14 hydraulic lines in the
backhoe,can't say I am looking forward
to it,thanks,Rock
 
I think checking the loader valve oil return to reservoir path and trying to hook up the hoses as we discussed is your best plan for now. You will need to figure out if the hoe valve has a power beyond plug in it, while replacing the hoses. The way the current plumbing is run, it may have. If it does, you don't need a selector valve, just the right disconnects. You should also be looking for a manual for the Henry Mark IV. The Henry hoes were used on a lot of Allis Chalmers, so don't rule out one related to an AC. AC bought them out I believe.

Also I think the two swing cylinders on yours are a modification, I believe those originally used a rotary cylinder for swing.
 
Hi Jim,I think you're right about the
swing cylinders,they look kind of out
of place to me.I have been meaning to
get manuals for the hoe,loader,and
tractor,still haven't got around to
it(one of these days).

Jim and Brooktre-I really appreciate
all of your help,and thank you for
taking the time,i will keep you guys
updated,Rock
 
Rock - also if it were mine I wouldn t replace hoses unless they were leaking. The work I do isn t critical, so a little downtime for a leaking hose won t kill me. Plus I m amazed that some of my hose are still holding up. They look terrible but still don t leak! I do have one spare hose that I can use for some but not all replacements. I also have a small quantity of fittings that I can use on the backhoe if needed. Good luck with the project!
 

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