Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult

Jackangel

Member
Hi everybody,

So time has come do go for my Landini (identical to MF 154 )Perkins AD3 152 in frame overhaul / rebuilt as I was writing here.

Here some pictures of main steps:

1. After placing some steel stand (homemade) and wood block I lift the front axle with an hydraulic jack and lifted tractor.



2. Removed hood, ballasting, battery, wirings and everything going to the front axle (radiator hoses etc)



3. Tear down the engine head , I have all setscrews except two stud which got undone when unscrewing their bolts. Here some pictures. It looks quite good to me, the same does the gasket.








4. Oil sump tear down. On the gasket between sump and block there is a lot of black sealant which got stuck and pulled down front and back rubber /silicon gaskets sealing the sump. They are made of rubber and not cork.

5. Here is the cyl sleeve #1 which was the one down on compression (280psi). Big marks and groove on the sleeve.





6. Piston #1 has broken ring and damaged ring housings (matching the marks on the liner), hence lack of compression and the blow by. Piston #2 has the top ring broken also






7. I got from a mill shop a homemade sleeve puller pad and a threaded bar with a U shaped steel profiles acting as a counter plate, put a ball bearings on in and start pulling with 24mm hex long fork wrench and a steel pipe.





8. Once the sleeve came out half of their stroke I went for the hammer and chisel option to wreck them, as the crankshaft is still on I will be carefully cleaning it and blowing it to avoid any small parts of sleeve get stuck in between the pistons rods journals and the crankshaft elbows..


9. Pistons rod bearings at the crankshafts reports the part number 31131291 with the Perkins logo that should be the stander sized bearings. They all look good, no marks no pits on them


10. Cyl #3 sleeve is still stuck there, also the threaded rods and the U shaped steel piece I used a s puller got bent. I tried to gently chisel the lip and accidentally made a small mark on the block surface here is it ; I hope it is not a big issue as the head gasket should be able to properly seal.








So here my questions / doubts:

1. [b:cde77f60dc]Would the mark on the block surface described above affect the sealing of the head and therefore the reliability of the whole rebuilt engine?[/b:cde77f60dc]

2. Would I replace head setscrews? How can I visually inspect the head. At this stage I am not planning head rebuild.

3. Could I hammer and chisel directly the #3 sleeve directly install of pulling in out? It is really stuck into it, the force I apply to pull it out does bend the puller and stretch the threaded tie rods..

I do really thank you for your attention and precious help.
 
DO NOT chisel the sleeve out! What I do is use an arc welder and make four vertical passes with a thin rod, low heat. After that cools the sleeve will shrink enough to pull it out. Other option is use a heavy puller meant for pulling sleeves, all thread rod is not strong enough. Lay the old head gasket on the block, if the sealing ring area overlaps the sleeve top edge a bit like I think it does the block will be fine as is.
 

Thanks Dieseltech.

Nice tip about the old gasket, I know the welding method but it would be hard for me as the block is standing and do not have enough space, then I am afraid I could damage the crankshaft and block bores in case welding melt the sleeves

But if you look at my pics you see I put a rubber sheet under them to prevent mark on the block.

I made the puller in the pictured and worked fine for #1 and #2 sleeve but the #3 is really stuck (even if piston #3 is the only one in good condition LOL).

So are the marks I accidentally made, and yellow circled ion the pictures, harmful for the engine?
 
Hi,

I had to rebuild a bigger U shaped steel counterplate ( almost " wall thickness) and use a " threaded rod with a 30" long wrench and finally it sleeve out.

The reason of sticking so steadily is the parent bore shows kind of oxidation around the area toward the back of the tractor.. look at this picture






Then I tried to put the old head gasket on and yes it does overlap the sleeve flange as it can be seen also looking at the footprint marks on the gasket around the cylinders.



Then I also wanted to show you the wearing on the camshaft in the area of ligitin paum actuation. As long as it works I would live with this..





So:

- I would sand paper both parent bores and block surface with a 220 or 320 grit after accurate cleaning with some degrading foam / spray.. is it ok or should I go for different grits?

- Would I change head setscrews?
 
I would NOT sand anything! Just clean well and leave as is. I also chill cleaned sleeves in the freezer overnight, then use a HEAVY flat steel plate and hammer to tap the sleeves in place. DO NOT use a block of wood, I've seen guys break sleeve tops when wood is used.
 
HI,

So you would not neither sand papering the parent bores which shows a little oxidation? What may have caused those oxidation marks on the parent bores on cyl #3,

Quite odd as the cyl#3 was the only one with almost 400psi compression and good piston rings

What about camshaft wear?

I will fo course place new sleeves in freezing chamber beforea placing them in.. nice tip also to sue flat metal and not wood

thank you!
 
What happens sometimes with that model engine is the liners drop causing problems also carbon finding its way
Between liner and block .... also I would
 

Thanks Derwen, you mean you would sand paper the parent bore only or also the scratches on the block surface?
 
LOL we posted at same time so I could not read your reply...

Unfortunately I cannot dismantle the Whole engine... as you may have read in my other topic

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1399474

I went for this inframe work as I expereiced a BIG blow by... so I thin I found the cause being in broken cyl #1 top ring...

What other kind of damages should I expect.).. I checked warm oil pressure before this rebiuld and It was just fine... hence the choice to not revise journals bearings...
 
LOL we posted at same time so I could not read your reply...

Unfortunately I cannot dismantle the Whole engine... as you may have read in my other topic

I went for this inframe work as I expereiced a BIG blow by... so I thin I found the cause being in broken cyl #1 top ring...

What other kind of damages should I expect?.. I checked warm oil pressure before this rebiuld and It was just fine... hence the choice to not revise journals bearings...
 
(quoted from post at 05:10:25 09/10/19) I would NOT sand anything! Just clean well and leave as is. I also chill cleaned sleeves in the freezer overnight, then use a HEAVY flat steel plate and hammer to tap the sleeves in place. DO NOT use a block of wood, I've seen guys break sleeve tops when wood is used.

... forgot to say I gently sandpapered with a 400 grit a litlle bit the spot where the mark I circled int picture to get rid of small burrs close to sleeve flange housing (if you look at that area between cyl #2 and #3 parent bores it is brighter.. I hope it is not an issue...
 
I would NOT sand a thing!

Most of my back ground is the maintenance,operation and test cell time on Aero Gas Turbines.

I never sanded a thing. Used only a 3-M product to clean and never remove any parent material....

General Electric LM 1600

Bob...... Owner operator MF FE 35 X Perkins Diesel...
cvphoto36139.jpg


cvphoto36141.jpg


cvphoto36142.jpg
 

Thanks for all your replies. So i hope my gently hand paper sanding in the spot shown in the picutre wont create any damage... :cry:
 
(quoted from post at 11:21:46 09/10/19)
Thanks for all your replies. So i hope my gently hand paper sanding in the spot shown in the picutre wont create any damage... :cry:


I don't think it will (on the spot you circled), if anything you only knocked down any tiny high spots, and some burrs along the edge.
 
Ok. Thanks to all.

I will go for Scothcx brite fine polishing then. Main issue are the gunk / marks on thge cyl#3 parent bore.. you can really feel the grooves by putting your finger on them..



I am not planning to replace the camshaft, or in your option should I go for a new one? The lift pump is correctly operated by this despite the pit caused by years of operation (7000hs)

I do think I ll be going for original PERKINS spares (finished liners), I shown the damaged piston #1 to a local MF / Perkins dealer and in his opinion that damage (cavity on the piston side and footprint on sleeve) has been generated by a faulty injector operations which does not spray correctly so to get an atomised flow



Back to head gasket I am asking if an non setting compote , as Hylomar Universal blue is, is suggested to be smeared over the new head gaskets. Also here your suggestion would be appreciated a lot!
 
You really can't do anything about the grooves, I would just clean it up a bit with scotch brite. Scotch brite is only going to remove anything that is already loose which is all you need to really do.
 

you mean scotch brite equivalent >1000 grit?

I am purchasing genuine PERKINS head gasket.. should be copper made.. so I think putting some non setting sealant would no be harmful...

what about camshaft pit at lift pump?
 
If you replace the camshaft then you have to replace the lifters also, the cam lobes, and lifters have to bed into each other. Old lifters on a new can either wear the cam lobe (or the lifter) out quick.
 

Thank you Ptfarmer for answering. So I ll keep this camshaft then.

As I am planning next step I am now really into the re-installation guidelines contained in the workshop manual.

- I would then put in the chiller the new service liners and use the flat bar as suggested. What about using the same puller pad I used for sleeving the old liners out?
-


- Conrod locking nuts. I see in the torques spec attached there are different settings according to nuts type (cadmium coated, phospateted).. which ones does my engin run according to this picture?
-



- Conrodss report the code 31337540 and a wording NAW with a code I cannot clearly read.. I do guess they are OEM ones.
-



- I am also replacing the conrods small end bushes as well as gudgeon pins I ll just press them out? Any suggestion on alternative methods or tips?

- Once I ll have fitted new service liners it I am check the relation of them to top face of bock which is specified to be + / - 0,004" (0,1mm) should it be better to have them up / down in relation to block surface?

 
I wouldn't use the puller, you need the flat bar that covers all the top of the sleeve. If the sleeves are chilled enough they might (but rarely) go all the way in on their own but I'd have the flat bar ready.

On the liners my MF shop manual says Flush to 0.004 in below the deck for the ad3.152.

As for as the rod nuts I would see about getting new ones since they are self locking nuts.

After pressing in the new bushings in the rods they will probably need to be reamed to size for proper clearance to the wrist pin.
 

Thx again :wink:

Got the point of the flat bar and i ll do so

By googling i found out my nuts are cadmium plated version..
I do not see any lip nor flange in them and they came out smmotlhy all the way so i thought they were not self locking..

Can i leave the sleeve chilling for some days or is it bad?
 
You can let the sleeves chill as much as you want, they are only going to get so cold. You may want to keep a eye on the sleeves while they are chilling just to make sure they don't start to possibly rust. If you can get a ice chest with some dry ice to chill the sleeves the dry ice will get them colder than a freezer will unless you have a really good freezer (which can help them go in easier).
 

LOL the freezer i've have is the one for the beef :lol: :lol:

I'll look for dry ice then...

I did not know small end bushes do not come already to size.. :(
 
When you press the bushings in they get a little smaller on the inside. On the combustion chambers in the head I would wire wheel all the carbon off, then I would take the all the valves, and lap them to make sure that they still set good in the valve seats so they seal good.
 

Hi,

thanks a lot Ptfarmer for your suggestion.

I did use a hand wire stainless steel wire very thin wool and got this result, this wire wool is the one used for old wood furniture renovation. It just takes or the dirt with no marks on the metal. Hence I would also use this for polishing the block can it work?

Here some pictures





I then checked the head straightness with a sliding caliper bar and a gauge feeler and the 0,05mm sheet does not slide under it nor length nor wide side so I assume more or less the head is correct.


I also measure the thickness and it turned to be 76,2mm while the engine manual states 75,82mm/76,58mm (2,985/3,015 in)




[b:dceb425d6b]Question[/b:dceb425d6b]: How can I see where it was already decked/grinded? The head gasket does not report any numbers (i.e. tolerances) but just the wording "MADE IN ENGLAND" and FRONT TOP). Then the manual reports that shims are used under the injectors to adjust their protrusion inside the chamber. As long as I have not found any of them I guess it was not machined.





[b:dceb425d6b]Liners Fitting[/b:dceb425d6b]: I forgot to ask whether smearing LOCTITE or any similar bonding around the outer surface of the new liners is suggested or not. I am not a real fan of this chemicals. Really..


thanks to you all
 
Hi all,

did manage to sleeve new liners in after getting them frozen for 10/12 hours and using a flat bar + the puller pads to drive them in place with a threaded rod (opposite sequence of what I did when policing them out ).

Had the recessed measured on 4 points for each liner and it turned to be 0,04mm almost everywhere.






I have not used LOCTITE on the new sleeves outer surface but just smearing some 10W40 oil in the parent bores. [u:dd1c84a146]The AD 3 152 workshop manual says LOCTITE to be used only on service PLAIN liners but not on those flanged[/u:dd1c84a146].



Here s new head gaskets, from an accurate check and measurements it seems the head has already been decked at some stage, local MF spare dealer says using standard head gasket is ok, I thought PERKINS had greater thickness head gaskets according to new head height after decking / resurfacing.

[b:dd1c84a146]Would you use HYLOMAR universal to install new head gaskets?[/b:dd1c84a146]



I also changed conrods small end bushes. New ones have 4,5mm hole for oil passage while old ones was 5,5mm



Put rings on new pistons and have them mounted inside new sleeves, torqued down the conrods nuts and now waiting to go on



I noticed no the crank is A LOT harder to rotate by hand.
 
The amount they remove when you have a block or head resurfaced isn't very much to worry about. On the head gasket I like to use Permatex Copper Spray-A-Gasket, other mechanics recommendations may vary on what to use or not.
 

Hi,

I did a little bit of research on the web and I I found a lot of topic arguing about the use of any compound / sealants on head gasket.

I do think my new PERKINS genuine head gasket is copper (it seems multylayers though ) and jointing compounds are not to be used on MLS gaskets.

Anyhow my workshop manual states:



Therefore being my engine AD 3 152 (CE21899 lot ) produced in UK in 1978, which procedure should I comply with?

I did also find a topic here in yt I am replying to, the manual seems different to mine..
 
My brother replaced the head gasket with another copper gasket on his MF150 (it has the AD3.152) this was before the spray on Permatex copper gasket sealer was ever available. Back then he used the old aluminum spray paint trick, all these years later it's still holding.
 
Hi again,
I was just re-assembling the oil sump by using a hydr jack and thread small bar for guiding and find a couple of threaded holes in the fly wheel plate where no setscrews/nuts were in



Were these holes drilled form manufacturing purposes perhaps?



Then I got another question for [b:b7c44842b7]first start up[/b:b7c44842b7] after this in-frame rebuild: as I removed all the oil pipes they are now empty, should I first [b:b7c44842b7]crank the engine with shut off fuel [/b:b7c44842b7]line to let the oil pump fill them in? Should I use a special oil for first start?


thansk
 
I would crank the engine over without the injectors in the head (so there is no real load on anything) until I see good oil pressure. Then I would put the injectors in, bleed it, then run it.
 

thanks pt for the suggestion, I'll do so.

Got the sump on, it was not that easy but did it. New front/rear gasket are cork made (put aviation sealant on them) while the old ones were silicone type rubber made.. (non OEM???)

New ones



Old ones

 

Hi, so I put everything together and now engine is up and running aging with no more blow by nor smoke.

At the end of the day I smeared the new head gasket with as thin film of Hylomar non setting compound mentioned in the manual.



Got a question now: my workshop manual states to torque the head bolts down again @ 95Nm when engine is hot (coolant > 170F). I have not done it yet as I had the engine running for a 60/70mins only should I do it and it is better run it for few hours first? I must say I ve re used the old nuts and setscrews



So I again thank your for reading my posts and helping me out in suggesting what to do now I ll move on front wheels spindle bushings overhaul!
 
I retorque the head once it get to operating temperature for the first time, I wouldn't run it for a few hours before retorquing. Using the old nut's, and screws should be ok unless the manual says otherwises.
 

thanks pt... I will do this when temp gauge has reached the green area in the gauge dashboard then.. manual say to do it when hot.. I am afraid this could hurt the threads...
 
(quoted from post at 00:01:45 10/02/19)
thanks pt... I will do this when temp gauge has reached the green area in the gauge dashboard then.. manual say to do it when hot.. I am afraid this could hurt the threads...



It won't hurt the threads.
 

Thank you.

So I did run it for 30mins to get 80C coolant temp and re-torqued the head down when hot..

I was surprised since some of the set screws needed almost a half a turn to be re-tightened to 95Nm.

No, manual does not specify new set screws should be used anytime you take the head off but it states indeed in my case head should be re-torqued after 25/50hs being my AD3 152 not one among the last ones with head fasteners with integral washer.

Is it common they needed to go half a turn in only after a 30mins running?
 

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