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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult

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Jackangel

09-09-2019 00:53:35




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Hi everybody,

So time has come do go for my Landini (identical to MF 154 )Perkins AD3 152 in frame overhaul / rebuilt as I was writing here.

Here some pictures of main steps:

1. After placing some steel stand (homemade) and wood block I lift the front axle with an hydraulic jack and lifted tractor.



2. Removed hood, ballasting, battery, wirings and everything going to the front axle (radiator hoses etc)



3. Tear down the engine head , I have all setscrews except two stud which got undone when unscrewing their bolts. Here some pictures. It looks quite good to me, the same does the gasket.











4. Oil sump tear down. On the gasket between sump and block there is a lot of black sealant which got stuck and pulled down front and back rubber /silicon gaskets sealing the sump. They are made of rubber and not cork.

5. Here is the cyl sleeve #1 which was the one down on compression (280psi). Big marks and groove on the sleeve.


6. Piston #1 has broken ring and damaged ring housings (matching the marks on the liner), hence lack of compression and the blow by. Piston #2 has the top ring broken also









7. I got from a mill shop a homemade sleeve puller pad and a threaded bar with a U shaped steel profiles acting as a counter plate, put a ball bearings on in and start pulling with 24mm hex long fork wrench and a steel pipe.







8. Once the sleeve came out half of their stroke I went for the hammer and chisel option to wreck them, as the crankshaft is still on I will be carefully cleaning it and blowing it to avoid any small parts of sleeve get stuck in between the pistons rods journals and the crankshaft elbows..

9. Pistons rod bearings at the crankshafts reports the part number 31131291 with the Perkins logo that should be the stander sized bearings. They all look good, no marks no pits on them

10. Cyl #3 sleeve is still stuck there, also the threaded rods and the U shaped steel piece I used a s puller got bent. I tried to gently chisel the lip and accidentally made a small mark on the block surface here is it ; I hope it is not a big issue as the head gasket should be able to properly seal.









So here my questions / doubts:

1. Would the mark on the block surface described above affect the sealing of the head and therefore the reliability of the whole rebuilt engine?

2. Would I replace head setscrews? How can I visually inspect the head. At this stage I am not planning head rebuild.

3. Could I hammer and chisel directly the #3 sleeve directly install of pulling in out? It is really stuck into it, the force I apply to pull it out does bend the puller and stretch the threaded tie rods..

I do really thank you for your attention and precious help.

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Jackangel

09-16-2019 00:14:45




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
Hi,

thanks a lot Ptfarmer for your suggestion.
I did use a hand wire stainless steel wire very thin wool and got this result, this wire wool is the one used for old wood furniture renovation. It just takes or the dirt with no marks on the metal. Hence I would also use this for polishing the block can it work?

Here some pictures


I then checked the head straightness with a sliding caliper bar and a gauge feeler and the 0,05mm sheet does not slide under it nor length nor wide side so I assume more or less the head is correct.

I also measure the thickness and it turned to be 76,2mm while the engine manual states 75,82mm/76,58mm (2,985/3,015 in)



Question: How can I see where it was already decked/grinded? The head gasket does not report any numbers (i.e. tolerances) but just the wording "MADE IN ENGLAND" and FRONT TOP). Then the manual reports that shims are used under the injectors to adjust their protrusion inside the chamber. As long as I have not found any of them I guess it was not machined.





Liners Fitting: I forgot to ask whether smearing LOCTITE or any similar bonding around the outer surface of the new liners is suggested or not. I am not a real fan of this chemicals. Really..

thanks to you all

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ptfarmer

09-13-2019 08:59:19




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
When you press the bushings in they get a little smaller on the inside. On the combustion chambers in the head I would wire wheel all the carbon off, then I would take the all the valves, and lap them to make sure that they still set good in the valve seats so they seal good.



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Jackangel

09-13-2019 07:00:00




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
... then how do i polish the head - valve seats? scotch brite also here?



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Jackangel

09-13-2019 00:59:08




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
LOL the freezer i've have is the one for the beef :lol: :lol:
I'll look for dry ice then...

I did not know small end bushes do not come already to size.. :(



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ptfarmer

09-12-2019 21:20:30




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
You can let the sleeves chill as much as you want, they are only going to get so cold. You may want to keep a eye on the sleeves while they are chilling just to make sure they don't start to possibly rust. If you can get a ice chest with some dry ice to chill the sleeves the dry ice will get them colder than a freezer will unless you have a really good freezer (which can help them go in easier).

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Jackangel

09-12-2019 13:24:36




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
Thx again :wink:
Got the point of the flat bar and i ll do so

By googling i found out my nuts are cadmium plated version..
I do not see any lip nor flange in them and they came out smmotlhy all the way so i thought they were not self locking..

Can i leave the sleeve chilling for some days or is it bad?



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ptfarmer

09-12-2019 08:53:09




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
I wouldn't use the puller, you need the flat bar that covers all the top of the sleeve. If the sleeves are chilled enough they might (but rarely) go all the way in on their own but I'd have the flat bar ready.
On the liners my MF shop manual says Flush to 0.004 in below the deck for the ad3.152.

As for as the rod nuts I would see about getting new ones since they are self locking nuts.

After pressing in the new bushings in the rods they will probably need to be reamed to size for proper clearance to the wrist pin.

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Jackangel

09-12-2019 01:41:16




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
Thank you Ptfarmer for answering. So I ll keep this camshaft then.

As I am planning next step I am now really into the re-installation guidelines contained in the workshop manual.

- I would then put in the chiller the new service liners and use the flat bar as suggested. What about using the same puller pad I used for sleeving the old liners out?

-



- Conrod locking nuts. I see in the torques spec attached there are different settings according to nuts type (cadmium coated, phospateted).. which ones does my engin run according to this picture?
-





- Conrodss report the code 31337540 and a wording NAW with a code I cannot clearly read.. I do guess they are OEM ones.

-


- I am also replacing the conrods small end bushes as well as gudgeon pins I ll just press them out? Any suggestion on alternative methods or tips?

- Once I ll have fitted new service liners it I am check the relation of them to top face of bock which is specified to be + / - 0,004" (0,1mm) should it be better to have them up / down in relation to block surface?

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ptfarmer

09-11-2019 18:42:37




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
If you replace the camshaft then you have to replace the lifters also, the cam lobes, and lifters have to bed into each other. Old lifters on a new can either wear the cam lobe (or the lifter) out quick.



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Jackangel

09-11-2019 07:45:33




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
you mean scotch brite equivalent >1000 grit?
I am purchasing genuine PERKINS head gasket.. should be copper made.. so I think putting some non setting sealant would no be harmful...

what about camshaft pit at lift pump?



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ptfarmer

09-11-2019 07:27:10




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
Depending on what the head gasket is made of the instructions should say if you are to use a sealer on it.



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ptfarmer

09-11-2019 07:17:51




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
You really can't do anything about the grooves, I would just clean it up a bit with scotch brite. Scotch brite is only going to remove anything that is already loose which is all you need to really do.



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Jackangel

09-10-2019 23:42:44




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
Ok. Thanks to all.
I will go for Scothcx brite fine polishing then. Main issue are the gunk / marks on thge cyl#3 parent bore.. you can really feel the grooves by putting your finger on them..


I am not planning to replace the camshaft, or in your option should I go for a new one? The lift pump is correctly operated by this despite the pit caused by years of operation (7000hs)

I do think I ll be going for original PERKINS spares (finished liners), I shown the damaged piston #1 to a local MF / Perkins dealer and in his opinion that damage (cavity on the piston side and footprint on sleeve) has been generated by a faulty injector operations which does not spray correctly so to get an atomised flow



Back to head gasket I am asking if an non setting compote , as Hylomar Universal blue is, is suggested to be smeared over the new head gaskets. Also here your suggestion would be appreciated a lot!

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ptfarmer

09-10-2019 20:41:19




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I don't think it will (on the spot you circled), if anything you only knocked down any tiny high spots, and some burrs along the edge.



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Jackangel

09-10-2019 11:21:46




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
Thanks for all your replies. So i hope my gently hand paper sanding in the spot shown in the picutre wont create any damage... :cry:



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Jackangel

09-10-2019 07:35:29




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

... forgot to say I gently sandpapered with a 400 grit a litlle bit the spot where the mark I circled int picture to get rid of small burrs close to sleeve flange housing (if you look at that area between cyl #2 and #3 parent bores it is brighter.. I hope it is not an issue...



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Jackangel

09-10-2019 06:34:34




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
LOL we posted at same time so I could not read your reply...

Unfortunately I cannot dismantle the Whole engine... as you may have read in my other topic

I went for this inframe work as I expereiced a BIG blow by... so I thin I found the cause being in broken cyl #1 top ring...
What other kind of damages should I expect?.. I checked warm oil pressure before this rebiuld and It was just fine... hence the choice to not revise journals bearings...

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Jackangel

09-10-2019 06:33:23




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
LOL we posted at same time so I could not read your reply...

Unfortunately I cannot dismantle the Whole engine... as you may have read in my other topic

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1399474

I went for this inframe work as I expereiced a BIG blow by... so I thin I found the cause being in broken cyl #1 top ring...
What other kind of damages should I expect.).. I checked warm oil pressure before this rebiuld and It was just fine... hence the choice to not revise journals bearings...

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Jackangel

09-10-2019 06:27:47




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
Thanks Derwen, you mean you would sand paper the parent bore only or also the scratches on the block surface?



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Jackangel

09-10-2019 05:21:22




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
HI,

So you would not neither sand papering the parent bores which shows a little oxidation? What may have caused those oxidation marks on the parent bores on cyl #3,

Quite odd as the cyl#3 was the only one with almost 400psi compression and good piston rings

What about camshaft wear?

I will fo course place new sleeves in freezing chamber beforea placing them in.. nice tip also to sue flat metal and not wood

thank you!

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Jackangel

09-10-2019 00:30:44




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
Hi,

I had to rebuild a bigger U shaped steel counterplate ( almost " wall thickness) and use a " threaded rod with a 30" long wrench and finally it sleeve out.

The reason of sticking so steadily is the parent bore shows kind of oxidation around the area toward the back of the tractor.. look at this picture





Then I tried to put the old head gasket on and yes it does overlap the sleeve flange as it can be seen also looking at the footprint marks on the gasket around the cylinders.



Then I also wanted to show you the wearing on the camshaft in the area of ligitin paum actuation. As long as it works I would live with this..





So:

- I would sand paper both parent bores and block surface with a 220 or 320 grit after accurate cleaning with some degrading foam / spray.. is it ok or should I go for different grits?

- Would I change head setscrews?

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John Deere D

09-10-2019 11:03:30




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-10-2019 00:30:44  
I would NOT sand a thing!

Most of my back ground is the maintenance,operation and test cell time on Aero Gas Turbines.

I never sanded a thing. Used only a 3-M product to clean and never remove any parent material....

General Electric LM 1600

Bob...... Owner operator MF FE 35 X Perkins Diesel...

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Dieseltech

09-10-2019 05:10:25




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-10-2019 00:30:44  
I would NOT sand anything! Just clean well and leave as is. I also chill cleaned sleeves in the freezer overnight, then use a HEAVY flat steel plate and hammer to tap the sleeves in place. DO NOT use a block of wood, I've seen guys break sleeve tops when wood is used.



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Jackangel

09-09-2019 05:35:47




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
Thanks Dieseltech.

Nice tip about the old gasket, I know the welding method but it would be hard for me as the block is standing and do not have enough space, then I am afraid I could damage the crankshaft and block bores in case welding melt the sleeves
But if you look at my pics you see I put a rubber sheet under them to prevent mark on the block.

I made the puller in the pictured and worked fine for #1 and #2 sleeve but the #3 is really stuck (even if piston #3 is the only one in good condition LOL).

So are the marks I accidentally made, and yellow circled ion the pictures, harmful for the engine?

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Dieseltech

09-09-2019 11:26:35




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 05:35:47  
I don't think the block mark will be any trouble..



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Dieseltech

09-09-2019 05:25:35




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Jackangel, 09-09-2019 00:53:35  
DO NOT chisel the sleeve out! What I do is use an arc welder and make four vertical passes with a thin rod, low heat. After that cools the sleeve will shrink enough to pull it out. Other option is use a heavy puller meant for pulling sleeves, all thread rod is not strong enough. Lay the old head gasket on the block, if the sealing ring area overlaps the sleeve top edge a bit like I think it does the block will be fine as is.

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derwen1959

09-10-2019 06:19:26




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to Dieseltech, 09-09-2019 05:25:35  
What happens sometimes with that model engine is the liners drop causing problems also carbon finding its way Between liner and block .... also I would



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derwen1959

09-10-2019 06:27:34




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 Re: Perkins AD3 152 diesel inframe rebiult in reply to derwen1959, 09-10-2019 06:19:26  
Also I would completely dismantle engine just in case there is hidden problems I had to stop as the dog was barking



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